I listened to their "pitch" on Crypto Core Radio... It is possibly the dodgiest, most unprofessional start-up pitch i've ever heard. I wouldn't buy a sandwich off this guy let alone invest my coins in this... https://soundcloud.com/coremediaradio/x-sports-the-gambling-platform-that-will-not-be-regulated

Just to reply to a few points:

1. sports gambling is actually just as complicated in some regards to blockchain technically. Professional gambling syndicates that drive the global pricing market through asia and exchanges like Betfair use armies of quants, monte-carlo & markhov chain simulations to predict the best inferred probabilities of the market. The three largest gambling syndicates in the world rake in around £100m a year in profits. The knowledge they bring to the market trickles down through all the brands and pricing offered by every book. This is soccer gambling. To under estimate the complexities surrounding this operationally is a huge mistake.
2. The largest turnover area for sportsbetting globally is through live-betting, so this is making an in-game bet. This may not be how US bettors see the market but Bet365, the largest sportsbetting operator in the world ($1.8bn turnover in 2016) makes 75% of their profit during live betting. In order to facilitate live betting using decentralised blockchain will be impossible, the reason being that you need to use realtime data to run these markets efficiently and with integrity. In order to collect this data that drives 100% of all in-play betting across ALL sportsbetting brands globally you need scouted data from inside the stadium. Three companies pay tens of millions to sports associations to have this data to sell to the gambling industry officially. IMG and Sportradar, for example, have $100m contracts with ATP (tennis) and NBA (Basketball) for this very reason. They in-turn resell this data to sport betting companies to use in their automated, trading algorithmic betting engines. This speed and integrity of data is not available to scrape on the every day web, especially for tennis. The companies are forbidden from selling any data to gambling companies that have no licenses. The only betting markets that could be driven by peerplays would be non-live events, which may be ok for the US market, but is useless for a global market, especially in Asia and Europe, that expect to be offered live markets and events to bet on. The argument will come back that oracles will be used to push this level of data but its impossible to parse all this data real-time without the help of the official data resellers.
3. China has the worlds biggest gambling market, you just need to google it. Its obvious. All of this market is online. When i refer to slots i refer to online slots and all the gambling i refer to is in regards to online.
4. In Asia many gamblers use agents because as sad as it sounds, gambling is scourge on most Asian societies, especially in China. Gambling is related in China to superstition, fortune and luck. Many agents facilitate credit down to their end users to bypass the need for constant payments and the biggest guys that bet as VIP's (massive turnover) also use the credit system. They have and agreed limit and will normally settle on that threshold every Monday. Bitcoin sportsbooks have definitely been a great new avenue to cut out some of the agents - mainly Japanese market - but the unformalised structure in China (generally run by triads) is deeply embedded in the culture and society. As i mentioned technology needs to be able to localise its product to fit certain markets - as any brand, for any product needs to. Time after time European operators, who are much more sophisticated technologically and operationally have tried to take on China but failed every time because they do not understand the culture and localisation needed to adapt to this market. There are currently 3000 sportsbook brands in China and in order for peerplays to make any global impression it needs to take this market seriously and not just really solely on tech.
5. I think many backers of Peerplays are potentially from markets where the gambling market is hidden or immature for online. I would regard the US and Canada as prime examples. In contrast to European users the experience of gambling online will feel archaic but when you look at Betfair, which is essentially its self a technology company that focuses on gambling they are already looking at blockchain technologies. Don't take for granted that these huge sportsbetting companies that have to handle 100k's transactions and bets per minute are in the dark about technology. Bet365, for example, is now entirely built on Erlang (the same language Whatsapp uses) to give customers all over the world the exact same QoS. They are all working on projects and with partners that are looking at centralised blockchains, like Ripple etc. Bet365 reinvests circa $20m - $30m a year back into their IT infrastructure.
6. I question the structure of the ICO but i feel the developers of Peerplay are probably genuinely trying to have an honest stab at this market but i think their approach is naive in regards to operations, regulations / legalities (we are even yet to see what the US gov will say about ICO's actually being legal themselves yet - Ontario has already said anything not-capped sub $5m could be problematic legally) and the complexities of a global sports betting market.
7. Peerplays could be a great technological accelerator platform for many sports betting companies, i agree. Graphene looks to be a great blockchain to help accelerate the scalability of small operators who are languishing on poor and out dated platforms but they haven't identified this as an aim. As previously mentioned many existing gambling companies are already looking at non coin based ledgers already.
8. These are my opinions, i do not know about any telegram chat room. I generally only use the gambling forums here where i try to explain gambling, probabilities and highlight how bad the current crop of bitcoin platforms are. I know there is certainly vast room for improvement for betting for crpyto users, i just don't agree that DAPPS are the way forward for this space. I do though think the Gnosis solution is a much better business structure. Their white paper, members of their team and experience would give me a much stronger sentiment that they will succeed to some extent.

If you were investing in an energy firm you'd hope to see people on the team who had VAST experience working in that sector, regardless of the technology, because ultimately knowing your product and your end user is the most important factor in making a successful enterprise. Not ONE SINGLE member of the peerplays team has ANY experience of the sports betting or gambling sector (at least the guys at Gnosis actually ran Fairlay for a years to get their feet wet). How has that not caused red-flags to every single investor in this? It is alarmingly stupid. Do you guys know that the majority of all gambling turnover comes from Chinese market and the majority of this is based upon slot games. The turnover is vast and we already see the Chinese government taking a very keen interest in BTC to stop capital flight. Peerplays tells you that they are aimed at the "global" market but every market is different and has different tastes and in China even having the wrong colours on your website for gambling will put people off because superstition and tradition is still far more important to people than the technology platform they are using.

Regarding the European market, first of all its regulated harder than any other jurisdiction in the world and no doubt each gambling commission will start to draft their own licensing laws in tandem with their local governments regarding the policing of this space. As we see with all other non-licensed gambling companies they have their IP's black listed, blocked and fines imposed. Unless Peerplays adheres to that licensing structure they also will face that situation and as sad as it sounds to decentralised zealots the ISP's are centralised, regulated and government controlled. This brings me on to my next point: marketing.

Where the hell is Peerplays marketing plan? Clearly its hype and word of mouth. That didn't get a single gambling company anywhere. The average cost to get a foothold in the UK gambling market is circa $25m a year on a budget so dream on etc... The two main approaches are affiliates and using sponsorship. Affiliation on this peerplays platform is impossible so some other service companies will have to build CRM's to facilitate this, in a smart way, on top of the platform but that goes against the whole decentralisation ethos. Regarding sponsorship, if you look at the whole of the English Premier League you will see vast swathes of team shirts with Asian betting sponsors. The reason for this is because of the succes of this league in Asian countries. It is the most watched league on Earth. This gives you marketing access to huge numbers of potential customers but most importantly it gives your brand integrity which is fundamental to access to Asian customers. Some people will argue, rightly, that provably fair gambling is the best thing for integrity but human beings dont work like this en masse (look at Trump being president). In order to sponsor such a team for your brand you legally have to have a UK gaming license so pretty much mass marketing is impossible for peerplay to the worlds biggest market of customers of sportsbetting.

Concerning the US, well there is a reason why every single sports book from 5Dimes to Betcris, that offers bitcoin, is hiding in Costa Rica with indictment charges from the US federal government so i think we are clear about the US standpoint. Look at the mess that is Daily Fantasy here in the US to understand those complexities and then having to route your FIAT through the US payment system if you do actually want to convert, er no thanks. There's a reason Big Joe on the corner is taking your bets.

I'm sure most people will disagree with me because you are all gambling experts by pulling quotes off the internet that gambling is "booming" and im sure i will be wrong on various things but I see hardly any sensical and experienced debate for this past and second (seriously dubious from my perspective regarding the ICO structure also) ICO but a debate is something i want to stimulate. I agree the bitshares exchange and other similar technologies will be a disruptor but i wouldn't be investing in an energy company my local bar man just started. There's a term called gamblers fallacy and thinking technology is the only thing that will drive this products success is certainly that. Sell while you can.

Great idea but what is the cross-over of fantasy soccer players to BTC usage, im guessing its a drastically small market so i cant, personally, see this gathering much momentum but a massive kudos for a new idea, which is well executed and designed. I hope it does go well but the demographic you need just isn't there IMHO.

Dear Betopen, i noitced that you have most of the times games still "pre-match" with "pre-match" odds when they are actually live. This means you have a terrible odds and results supplier. Example, right now i can bet Changchun Yatai v Liaoning in the Chinese super league which started 15 minutes ago 0700 GMT whereas you have it down to start 0730GMT. All the odds are wrong as a consequence. How can I trust you will honor bets with such bad service suppliers?

It's a marketing ploy, they are marathonbets pre-match odds for soccer, tennis and basketball - which 1xbet also copy hence similarities. Everyone knows Marathon has tiny limits and voids decent winners pre-match so it won't last.

The site feels like it was put live before beta testing was finished. There is a lot to do for this platform. I have no idea whats going on with the "live" section. I'm still investigating but the odds are very similar to Ladbrokes in the UK. A lot work needs to be done to make this a compelling offering vs what exists in the market already.

Alleged founder of Bitcoin teams up with sports betting giant to patent various aspects of Bitcoin, including sportsbetting:

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/bitcoin-wright-patents/

BTCevo, I won't speculate regarding your knowledge of sportsbetting but the price is 10% worse than Betfair and significantly worse than almost all bitcoin sportsbook on offer. I can do exactly the same if i wanted to and just do an 8% margin on top and undercut their odds. It is very easy with the Betfair API. Betfair have a licensing agreement to stop API customers - normally large bettors and professional gamblers - from being able to carry out this sort of business so I suspect Directbet isn't a long term business model. It's a great service if you statistically never want to make any money back.

Here is proof that they are using the Betfair API. Today BTCtalk users of Directbet complained that The Oscars Best Picture market had been incorrectly settled with Moonlight as a loser and La La Land as a winner - as did Betfair, unsurprisingly: http://community.betfair.com/specials/go/thread/view/94178/30826345/la-la-land#flvWelcomeHeader not to mention they have exactly the same sports, competitions and events with always exactly a 10% margin added as a line fattener on top. Don't kid yourself, its not a sportsbook. Sportsbook means making a book(prices), taking a bet on that price for the risk. They just pass off the bet to Betfair and cream a 5% margin (minus 5% commission fee) off the top for relatively little effort.

Directbet is basically using Betfair prices with EXACTLY 10% margin added on. The reason why they accept anonymous bets is because they don't actually take a bet, they lay off to Betfair immediately through their API. People say its a good brand to use but how long Betfair will allow this to happen for in lieu of their licensing agreements is anyones guess. Directbet is basically an unofficial bet broker in bitcoin for Betfair, with much worse odds - its not a sportsbook.

Hey arlekyn13, I am assuming that these prices are pre-live? For pre-live i've noticed that Powerbet.io is basically copying all the Marathonbet prices for soccer, tennis and basketball and anyone that bets knows that Marathonbet just use those pre-match prices for PR to make them best-price for odds comparison websites. They actually void and cancel a lot of those bets unless you are known loser on sports or casino previously. I'd say Nitrogenbet's price is pretty much the solid price for bitcoin users to look at when comparing the bottom line. Nitrogen obviously use the Pinnacle line and line fatten a bit for their own juice on top. Considering Pinnacle doesn't close down winners and have the one of the top 3 worlds best pre-match soccer pricing that must be the benchmark to go to, this is also a reason why Nitrogen has such a strong reputation for paying out because Pinnacle always pays them out.

If you look at Powerbet.io for live betting they go up to 5-6% margin on most matches - if you can actually get a bet on... I've noticed half (and mostly always the big leagues) have the main result markets suspended for almost the entire length of a match.

If you look outside the top three sports you will see the margin, pre-event, is quite high on some sports (not everyone bets soccer here). NHL, for example, is around a 12% on Powerbet.

I think Powerbet has to prove the validity of their offer, as Nitrogen has done over the years, before you endorse it as a recommended price. I have zero confidence in a brand that just literally copies another brands pricing for PR gain. Just go to any odds comparison website and you will see Marathonbet price moves pre-game and.... oh Powerbet price moves too!

the problem with sportsbook comparison sites is that they will generally only work with companies that only trade in FIAT and / or are regulated in one of the more notable juristictions: UK, Malta, Gib, IOM etc so its hard to keep track of the odds.

Considering most of the bitcoin sportsbook are not regulated and non of their profits are taxed by a gaming authorities - people will mention Curacao but basically thats just $20k a year to allow to get enough legitimacy to integrate casinos and few payment solution options and is still not taxed - and that they are almost all exclusively using data to drive their products that they web scrape, how any bitcoin sportsbook asks for anything above a 6% margin is scandalous.

Spot on veleten. Here is a good tool to use for all bettors to calculate the margin you are getting. Remember the closer to 100% inferred probability you are getting with your odds the more value you are getting and the fairer the bookie is being with you.

https://www.bitedge.co/sports-betting-tools-and-resources/overround-and-probability-calculator/

Thanks for the update

Hi, will you have the horse racing available through betballer in the future also? Is it just UK and IRE? Will you offer any asian racing like HK?

I think you miss my point about true value of a product through odds and the absurdity of anyone ever playing on the 1xbit site. Even if you trust the platform you are basically stood at a counter looking at two identical apples in every way, one costs $1.50 and the other costs $1.20. Why in your right mind would you ever chose the $1.50 apple?? I have no allegiance to any brand but i will call a spade a spade whenever i see one to help inform bettors.

Says the guy with a 1xbit tattoo on his forehead. There is simply no better evidence than the odds they offer. Anywhere between 10% - 20% overound for live betting, dependant on sport. Some of the worst odds on offer for any bitcoin sportsbook. Let's look at the Nadal v Feds Oz Open final right now. 1xbit offering overound of average 10%.Cloudbet 4-5%. Sportsbet 5-6% (although they are not the worst Directbet is offering a pitiful 13%). What is galling as a customer is that 1xbet is offering an average 2% overound on this event. Even if i trusted the 1xbit brand why would I even bother using this version when 1xbet offers superior odds and already accepts bitcoin? If you like 1xbit and bet there you are being ripped off when you can just play at the parent site for better value but wait a minute google 1xbet and its a horror show. Case closed.

Here is reason not to bet with 1xbit. Clearly holding bitcoin gamblers in contempt vs their regular clientele.

1xbet offering 3.76% overound on Liverpool v Wolverhampton FA Cup Soccer

BUT..

1xbit, same platform, same traders, same risk management... 11.24%!!!

I also had my post removed by the Powerbet moderator. I don't think it is related to 1xbit/1xbet though as they are on the softswiss platform. I believe a company called betting promotions power the odds feed for Powerbet. Sportsbook run properly should be able to work with arbitrage players as logically they make the book sharper with their lines. As Pinnacle do. Powerbet looks to be owned by bitbingo.io btw.

Hi GP, I hear what you are saying. I tried to be objective to a certain extent from my empirical observations and calculated my ratings based on different criteria: website, product, value of odds, payments, sign up and reputation. I tried to give a rounded impression of a product, rather than just reputation alone. As you see in my comments afterwards, I really only give cloudbet, sportsbet and Nitrogen the green light from my own personal perspective. Betcoin are in my eyes a B2B operation that is taking advantage of the data other clients pass through their platform rather than a true B2C. Actually with the data Betcoin have access to if they had a better, more reputable manner to risk manage their book they SHOULD be light-years ahead of the rest by now but i guess its short-sighted on their part.