If not immediately obvious, this is related to how Nxt will be solving the Nothing at Stake problem.

Edit: Not sure if it more helps the Nothing at Stake problem or the downloading the blockchain and choosing who to trust problem.

I would prefer that NEM and Nxt work together and that NEM becomes an asset riding on top of Nxt.  Make Nxt the stock and NEM the currency. 

Personally I'd build in 1% inflation per year as well into NEM, not into Nxt.. but that's another topic.

No, I'm saying that the algorithm I've discussed should largely provide that protection but is more to come that has been largely discussed but not as openly.

I highly recommend the link I posted as they, especially Come-From-Beyond knows what he is talking about better than I do.

How does Bitcoin solve people downloading the wrong chains?  You could simulate the Bitcoin blockchain from genesis block with less forging power, the difficulty would therefore be lower and people would download the wrong one, right?  Surely the current miner doesn't pass back all the info needed to build a chain from the genesis block every time he solves a hash, right?

The way Nxt does it is actually quite clever and solves the nothing at stake problem, there is more to it than this but the part of it that I understand is that choosing who forges next is every forger does SHA(last forger public key) Somehow how long ago an account forged and how many nxt owned by that account and information from the last block is factored in as well.  The winner is the one who has the largest hash.

So, in order to crack it, you need to use proof of work in order to find accounts that would have higher hashes for every block along the way.

This would take a network that does the same thing the Bitcoin network does but would be many magnitudes of order greater than the Bitcoin network to hash numbers in order to fast enough determine how an attacker would move around their coins into the right accounts in order to be able to author blocks.  And if it's not enough security, do SHA(SHA()) and you've squared the amount of processing power required by an attacker.  So an attacker would basically have to build a very expensive and long fork faster than the network does these light-weight operations.  He also needs to be able to plan 1440 blocks into the future in order to know where to place these Nxt in order for the network to accept his hash as valid.

There are some other things, such as not allowing block that have timestamps greater than X blocks ago.  And there is some other secret sauce that has been discussed behind the scenes that I'm not going to reveal here.

Point is though, this works in a completely different way to Bitcoin and the nothing at stake problem doesn't apply here because it works so differently.  Also, I believe there aren't 'forks' in the same sense that regularly pop-up as they do in the Bitcoin network because forgers aren't submitting their 'fork' to the network that they can re-write(short of that ultra high processing power), they are submitting their individual block.

Basically we aren't getting much further into the details though because they want to implement it and having working first before telling our competitors the right way to implement POS.  There are a number of people who have reviewed it however and it works.

You want to further discuss it, I recommend checking out this thread: https://nxtforum.org/general/how-does-nxt-fix-the-nothing-at-stake-problem/

Very nice!  Will have to further review this paper later.



Read my mind

In fact I think it was one of your posts that lead mthcl to start talking about it with us.. which lead to this post.

How does this proof of stake algorithm that retargets every 10 minutes work?

If it actually works.. might be worth further considering.

So I was discussing this with a friend was wondering if you guys had any input, how would you go about creating a decentralized system that agrees on the current time?

Preferably not Proof of Work.

Thanks.

If people don't wait for confirmations then what prevents me from creating a double spend app that let's you double spend your Bitcoin?

I'm talking for check out counter transactions, and the network needs to agree it's correct.

Because 10 minute block size and 6 blocks needed for a confirmation seems like it can't be good enough.

I have heard the poll the miners approach.. how quickly can that be done?

2 factor authentication is very nice to have..  is it possible to do it in a decentralized way without trusting anyone else with the key being sent to you?

Ideally so you can in some way log in and recover your private key within a decentralized storage system or something like that.

I think Nxt is just so cheap right now because a lot of people were made into overnight millionaires and decided to dump some coins just in case the whole thing went down.

There were also complaints about the distribution, so a lot of the big guys kindly cashed out for us

Nxt has so much more promise than most of the coins.

Do you think these are all his coins?  If I were him once I got to 1 million in that wallet, I'd have switched over to mining into a different wallet address.. held onto the 1 million as an investment and spent the rest.

Oh and I doubt that satoshi will become the richest person in the world.. first of all, proof of stake is being figured out by coins like Nxt and going to use something like 1200 times less energy than Bitcoin to run, not to mention being significantly more cost efficient for the same security.  That aside.. even if Bitcoin did get to be worth as much as the USD these days, Satoshi would be approximately just as wealthy as Bill Gates, though granted he could actually spend his without needing to cash out his stock and crash it, because everyone else would simply hold onto any BTC he's handed them.

Just created my account number: 1922720115949183208

I don't understand something though.. how do I pay for IPO and prove that I've paid?  Where do I send money and transaction number?

The BTC wallet address is empty in the image I'm looking at...

Obviously you haven't thought about the features of some of these altcoins.. look at Nxt: 1300 times more energy efficient, 400 times more cost efficient because you don't have to fund all those miners to prevent a 51% attack, more secure, and instant transaction confirmations are possible in a proof of stake environment in a way a proof of work environment just can't match.

You will invest BTC?  You mean.. you will give yourself some BTC as an investment into this project?  As the creator, it's fine if you take the same share as that of the biggest possible investment you are allow, it just doesn't seem like much of an investment.. moving on..

1) Why not escrow?  Say people's coins are worth 10% more if not escrowed so you can have funds to initially fund this but as soon as you release something that shows you know what you are doing, you get it all to continue funding.

2) Also, what is the advantage of this over Proof of Stake?  Does this still have the same 51% attack problem that POW does, except using storage space?  Seems to me like Proof of Stake might be more secure..

3) And again, will your share of the proof of storage be based upon the number of bytes you are storing or the number of bytes you can store?  Seems to me like the Reed-Solomon coding method can only detect how much storage is being used, not how much you are providing.. right?

4)What is the experience of the development person/team? And how much time do they intend to spend on it?

Note that I am seriously interested in this coin, just want to make sure you can answer some of these questions, please don't ignore me again.

What is the experience of the development team?  How much time do you intend to spend developing this?

Sounds like proof of storage would have to be based on how much information you are actually storing, not on how much storage is available if using the Reed-Solomon method of checking whether someone is storing what they are supposed to be storing, right?

Sounds quite interesting though, may throw a few Nxt your way.. wouldn't put a cent I couldn't afford to lose into the project though.  Can we get escrow though?  Only released upon the release of the initial product?  Why not if not?

Hey folks, Emule just bought 56% of the coins.. so much for that initial distribution...

Can you find a single company that was started with that 'fair' of a distribution?

How was NAS's initial distribution done?  Why didn't I hear about it?  I've been big in the Nxt community.. doesn't sound very fair to me!

Why?  This is like those Bitcoin clone that have changed one single variable somewhere and don't have a chance at succeeding.

That's how the first post reads, or is there actually any advantage?

Keep in mind that the more Bitcoin grows.. the smaller USD becomes.. so this will be more like 1 BTC equals $100,000 of purchasing power, just because USD will be worth 1000x time less. So, who knows! lol