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4061  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Libertarian support of unions on: June 22, 2011, 02:16:29 AM
I think a common Libertarian view is that unions are unfairly and massively promoted by the State. (For example, the absurd laws against 'retaliation'.) There is no objection to unions that arise through purely voluntary associations. However, employers should be permitted to do the same thing, and they currently are not.
4062  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox using bots to drive up price? on: June 22, 2011, 02:08:51 AM
So market trading ends up depending on how well someone can code their own bot, then kick back and drink coke?
Yes. In fact, the more better bots overall and the smarter they are, the more stable the market is for everyone.

Suppose a supply/demand imbalance causes widgets to sell for $8 in Chicago but $10 in Pittsburgh. A widget stabilizing bot will buy widgets for $8 in Chicago and sell them for $10 in Pittsburgh, until the prices converge at, say, $9. He'll make $2/widget. And he'll fix the imbalance that was resulting in people getting paid too much in Pittsburgh and too little in Chicago. The bots make money and they stabilize the market. It's pure win/win.
4063  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox using bots to drive up price? on: June 22, 2011, 02:08:06 AM
One said coinbot...
716,coinbot,,0fe8707f56864e223caaac0d2ca997f6

does this mean they can drive the price up this way

please dont curse me out if im wrong this could be a testing system but there are actually A LOT with no email
Umm, that's how exchanges work.
4064  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Deflation: Wage rates and the employee VS the Employer on: June 22, 2011, 01:55:00 AM
And I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. In order to combat deflation companies would either need to adjust your pay, (pay you less every year) or fire you and hire someone new for less money.
Right. If you're rational, they'll do the former. If you're irrational, they'll do the latter. It is the same as inflation but in reverse. An irrational employer who refuses to raise wages to combat inflation will lose employees. A rational one will raise wages.

Quote
If you read my original question I give the example of, if someone pays you 10 bucks an hour and inflation hits at 10% a year. Why, in 10 years time, wouldn't your employer fire you and hire 10 other people at 1 dollar an hour?
Because he couldn't afford to. If he can't afford to hire 10 employees at market rates today, why would you think he would magically be able and willing to do so in 10 years?

Quote
The only other option for the employer that I can think of is it would be common place to pass out a standard of living adjustment and pay you less every year. That or labor would start to get underpaid in order to counter act deflation and keep employees. Either way it doesn't promote employment longevity and job stability. It seems to be the same problem as inflation just in reverse.
It's precisely the same problem, which is why it's no problem at all. You can make the same argument about inflation -- employees constantly demanding raises will piss off employers and hurt employment longevity and job stability. But that's obviously not true. It really makes no difference.
4065  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is tradehill.com really hosted on a shared hosting account? on: June 22, 2011, 01:46:59 AM
It is the same physical card in the same physical machine.  C++ is quite powerful.
Even a dedicated machine uses the same physical network interface on the same router. If sharing network hardware were a problem, every system on the Internet would have it. And yes, C++ is very powerful. So what?
4066  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Some Quick BitCoin Question on: June 22, 2011, 01:44:30 AM
1. If I send someone BitCoins in exchange for an item and they do NOT give me the item can I cancel the transaction?
No. If you could, what incentive would they have to give you the item

Quote

    2. If my computer crashes will my BitCoin address be gone or can I access it somehow?
A private key grants the ability to transfer BitCoins out of any given address. If you have lost that private key, your coins are gone forever. If you still have that private key (say because you backed it up) then you can still transfer the coins. You must guard your private key -- anyone who has it can irrevocably transfer away your BitCoins.

It is to some extent unfortunate the private key file is called a 'wallet'. It is most unlike a wallet and is in fact more like a keyring.
4067  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Are transactions bound to a specific block or can they be applied to any block? on: June 22, 2011, 12:35:26 AM
The reason why I'm asking is that some "Bitcoin banks" seem to only credit received coins after a given number of blocks have passed. If it would be possible to bind a transaction to a specific block chain (e.g., by specifying a required "previous" block) one could avoid this problem, by instantly crediting received coins, but by binding newly sent coins to the same fork of the chain where the previous coins have been received.
That wouldn't solve the problem. Even if you specify a required previous block, there is still no way to know whether the subsequent block that contains this transaction will "win" until sufficient blocks have passed.

In fact, this would make things worse. In the present system, if the block containing the transaction doesn't win, at least you can still perform the transaction if the sender hasn't maliciously attempted a double spend. With your scheme, if the block containing the transaction doesn't win, there is no chance to still perform the transaction.
4068  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Sabatoge: "Losing" Bitcoins (AKA the Goldfinger Attack) on: June 22, 2011, 12:31:25 AM
Is it possible to sabotage Bitcoin by accumulating coins (through purchase, theft, or exchange breach, etc.) and then deliberately destroy the wallet that contains the key to these coins?

Presumably these coins are henceforth lost, essentially.
By losing the coins, the "attacker" would also lose whatever value he had exchanged to accumulate those coins. If he stole the coins or acquired them through other nefarious means, the attack doesn't add anything except it reduces his ability to cash out.

Theoretically, a person could acquire a large number of bitcoins and then use some kind of attack to destroy other people's bitcoins. His goal would be to increase the value of the bitcoins he didn't destroy. The logic would have to be that he couldn't steal those bitcoins as easily as he could destroy them (otherwise, stealing them gives him 100% of their value, obviously more). While he would benefit from this attack (just as he would benefit from simply stealing bitcoins) he would have to divide his gain with everyone else who holds bitcoins. So it seems like it would be so inefficient that it's not worth worrying about.

Do we worry that someone will buy all the coffee in the world and then resell it for much higher prices? This would only be even remotely worth worrying about if bitcoins were so dominant that using other currencies was impractical.
4069  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Deflation: Wage rates and the employee VS the Employer on: June 22, 2011, 12:02:11 AM
I'm not arguing that it would be a tough sell, though I do think that's a PR problem when trying to sell this idea. I am asking if job stability would suffer in a deflationary economy. It sounds like most people are saying that job stability would suffer and that shouldn't matter. Or that people would get use to it job instability or live with pay decreases.
They wouldn't be living with pay decreases. If I pay one week with 50 one dollar bills and the next day with one 50 dollar bill, has your pay decreased because you received fewer dollars?

There is no reason job stability would suffer. You can make the same argument in an inflationary economy and it's equally wrong. Here it goes: "Suppose I get a job for $55,000 per year. Two years later, due to inflation, I'm not being paid enough. So unless my boss is willing to raise my salary, I'll take a new job for a higher wage. So job stability will suffer due to inflation." But we all know that's not right. Both participants have an incentive to restore the wage to market value.
4070  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Theoretically a branch of Bitcoin including IP addresses in the blocks on: June 21, 2011, 02:01:21 PM
I don't understand what you mean by verifying the IP address has not changed. Are you suggesting that if my ISP goes out of business, I should lose all my money?

And how will IP addresses be verified? If you say you got something from 1.2.3.4, how do I confirm or deny that? And what happens when two different clients see a site as having a different IP address? Say it uses different IP addresses on different networks. And what of nodes that have no IPv4 connectivity?

Honestly, it seems to cause way more problems than it solves.
4071  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Deflation: Wage rates and the employee VS the Employer on: June 21, 2011, 01:57:38 PM
The biggest problem with deflation is debt accumulation. With deflation any debt is more expensive to pay off than the value of the goods originally obtained with said debt.
Since the deflation in bitcoins is predictable, a bitcoin's value today already includes the present value of holding the bitcoin as it deflates. There can't be a significant actual increase in value just from predictable factors.

To give an analogy, suppose everyone knew for a fact that gold would hit $2,500/oz in two years. What would happen to the price of gold today? The assumption that something will go way up in value in the future will cause it to go way up in value today, preventing the future rise because it will have already happened.
4072  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who has the authority? on: June 21, 2011, 01:48:34 PM
There is in courts. A signed contract gives you legal recourse, a sign does not.
Yes, it does. Otherwise, you could hand the money over the counter and the store owner could simply put it in his pocket and kick you out of the store. An offer (with precise terms) and acceptance (with consideration) is approximately equivalent to a written contract in every legal jurisdiction I know of and by common sense.
4073  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Transaction Charges on: June 21, 2011, 01:46:14 PM
IMO, the client needs to be modified to tell the user what the results of the transaction are going to be. The current method of silently doing something the user can't easily understand is, IMO, unacceptable.
4074  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who has the authority? on: June 21, 2011, 01:36:51 PM

Unless you signed a private contract with them stating otherwise, all you can do is trust them and ultimately they're in control. Again, the reality of the situation.
I don't follow the logic of your argument. What do you think is special about a signed contract?

If I walk into a store that has a sign, "Bubble gum, $1" and I hand $1 across the counter and ask for some bubble gum, do you think there's any legal, moral, or practical difference between the sign being up and a signed contract?
4075  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can a getwork be returned to different bitcoind than the one you got it from? on: June 21, 2011, 01:16:08 PM
I believe that if you return it to a different client and that client had accepted a different list of transactions, it won't be able to claim the block.
4076  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Virwox as secure alternative for trading btc on: June 21, 2011, 12:34:09 PM
For the record, it was $500,000 worth of bitcoins that was being talked about -- 25,000 BTC.
4077  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Deflation: Wage rates and the employee VS the Employer on: June 21, 2011, 12:16:23 PM
If he can't lower your wage, he won't hire you at $10/hour in the first place. He'll hire you at $9/hour or he'll insist on the right to lower your wages to keep up with their declining value. Just as people get cost of living increases, they'll get cost of living decreases. *Predictable* deflation is easily accounted for.

This is the error in the argument that bitcoin deflation will cause hoarding. Unless you want to hold the bitcoins for some reason, you don't need to hold them to get the value they will gain through deflation. The value of each bitcoin includes the value of the right to hold that bitcoin and watch it increase in value. So if you transfer the bitcoin today, you can collect on that expected deflation immediately. There is no need to wait -- the expected inflation or deflation is already built into the price of things.
4078  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is the number of blocks going to get bigger and bigger ever? on: June 21, 2011, 11:28:31 AM
Mt. Gox didn't roll back *bitcoin* transactions. They rolled back Mt. Gox transactions. The bitcoins (except for about $1,000 worth) never left Mt Gox's internal accounts. So Mt. Gox can give them to whoever they please. There is no mechanism for rolling back bitcoin transactions other than convincing their present owner to give them back or convincing everyone else to pretend that they have done so.

And a new client only needs to validate the entire block chain when it first starts up. After that, it only needs to keep its database up to date. There has been discussion of the ability to create a 'lite' version of the client that wouldn't ever need to do this but in exchange would have slightly weaker security properties. This is a problem that will likely be solved long before it's a real problem.
4079  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is the number of blocks going to get bigger and bigger ever? on: June 21, 2011, 10:36:43 AM
Is my math wrong? There are about 130,000 blocks now. We are generating a new block about every 400 seconds. That's about 80,000 blocks per year. That's 170,000 in the beginning of 2012 and 250,000 in the end of 2012.
4080  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Always only 8 coonnections on: June 21, 2011, 09:40:05 AM
Quote from: JoelKatz
It means you cannot receive incoming connections.
If he couldn't receive incoming connections, how come his client shows 8 connections?
He made 8 connections.
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