It's not the pyramid aspect of something that makes it illegal. Rather, it is damaging someone through the use of a pyramid that makes it illegal.

There are loads of network marketing programs out there that are based on pyramid form for their compensation plan. Yet they sell a product so that when you join, you are buying a product.

The world banking system is by far the biggest pyramid in the world. The thing that makes it legal is that it is formally voluntary, and that the banks have provided, among others, these two documents that you can find online just to see that they ARE pyramids:
Modern Money Mechanics
Two Faces of Debt.

The banking system realizes how powerful a pyramid is. That's why they try as best they can to make pyramids appear illegal. They don't want any competition.

Bitcoin is competition enough. A bitcoin pyramid, one that spells out the inherent dangers of pyramids, and then leaves the freedom up to the individual, is something that can reduce the world banking system to ashes in short order. The bankers know this. And because of it they send their trolls into the Bitcoin forums to make pyramids sound bad. All they want to do is take away your freedom, even your freedom to play the pyramid game if you want.

In America, wasn't it the banking pyramid that caused a whole lot of people to lose their homes, and their life savings in the crash of 2008? Isn't it the banking pyramid that caused citizens of Cyprus, Greece, Spain and Italy to lose a lot of money? They did it by not informing the people about the dangers of making certain kinds of pyramid investments, while at the same time promoting those investments.

I want the freedom to make an informed decision about whether or not to join a pyramid program. I don't want anybody telling me I can't. I want freedom, and if I hurt myself in my freedom, that's my business.

The banks are ripping EVERYBODY off. and they are working as hard as they know how to keep on doing it. If Bitcoin pyramids were promoted with full understanding, they would virtually destroy the banking system overnight. The bankers know this, and send their trolls into forums to badmouth pyramids in general.

Here is a practical idea that would work for some people. It involves using a large random character list. Use your imagination to make it stronger than it is explained in the link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435050.msg4779209#msg4779209.

The Bitcoin core Devs don't need to get into the middle of a fight between people and the exchanges. Such interference would look bad to as many people as it would look good. Then there would be people who would attempt to sue the core Devs for the interference.

While I never used MtGox, I also was taken in by what seemed to be their stability. Their crash is a good reminder to me that Bitcoin is FREE to use, and that means free from standard security as well as free from the banking industry's supposed security. Since Bitcoin is free for me to use without interference, if I use my freedom, I need to learn to take responsibility for my actions.

If we all had done the secure thing, if we all had transacted in small amounts so that we wouldn't lose much when failure came, Bitcoin would not have had the wild fluctuations that it has had. It would be far more stable as a medium of trade. Its foundations would be stronger, and we would have more people moving into it for buying and selling, rather than for speculating.

Keep the core Devs out of the battles. They have enough to do simply considering the technical side of things.

Private judges, like from Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."

----------

 A boy about fourteen spoke up. “Say! Aren’t you Gospodin O’Kelly?”

 “Right.”

 “Why don’t you judge it.”

 Oldest looked relieved. “Will you, Gospodin?”

 I hesitated. Sure, I’ve gone judge at times; who hasn’t? But don’t hanker for responsibility. However, it troubled me to hear young people talk about eliminating a tourist. Bound to cause talk.

 Decided to do it. So I said to tourist, “Will you accept me as your judge?”

 He looked surprised. “I have choice in the matter?”

 I said patiently, “Of course. Can’t expect me to listen if you aren’t willing to accept my judging. But not urging you. Your life, not mine.”

 He looked very surprised but not afraid. His eyes lit up. “My life, did you say?”

 “Apparently. You heard lads say they intend to eliminate you. You may prefer to wait for Judge Brody.”

 He didn’t hesitate. Smiled and said, “I accept you as my judge, sir.”

...

 “Kids are paying seventy dollars Hong Kong for judgment. You should match it. If you can’t, open pouch and prove it and can owe it to me. But that’s your share.” I added, “Cheap, for a capital case. But kids can’t pay much so you get a bargain.”

 “I see. I believe I see.” He matched with seventy Hong Kong.

 “Thank you,” I said. “Now does either side want a jury?” Girl’s eyes lit up. “Sure! Let’s do it right.” Earthworm said, “Under the circumstances perhaps I need one.”

 “Can have it,” I assured. “Want a counsel?”

 “Why, I suppose I need a lawyer, too.”

 “I said ‘counsel,’ not ‘lawyer.’ Aren’t any lawyers here.” Again he seemed delighted. “I suppose counsel, if I elected to have one, would be of the same, uh, informal quality as the rest of these proceedings?”

 “Maybe, maybe not. I’m informal sort of judge, that’s all. Suit yourself.”

...

 I went behind desk, sat down, put on Brody’s plug hat—wondered where he had found it. Probably a castoff from some lodge. “Court’s in session,” I said. “Let’s have names and tell me beef.”

----------

Point is, we don't need any governmental judges to judge in practical situations. We all live life. We all understand what's right and wrong... at least in the more evident cases. We don't need reversability of Bitcoin. We may want private judges, and for a judicial fee. People could build a rep as an impartial, fair, private Bitcoin judge.

This about JW might be true. But it isn't evident from his statement at the beginning of this thread. Rather, he is simply being practical. For example. At the height of the Bitcoin flurry, when China surpassed MtGox in volume, when they were going strong before they dropped more or less out of the picture, Bitcoin moved about as much in that whole month as the Forex does in $dollars in one day.

In the scheme of things, Bitcoin is nothing. To Bitcoiners, it might mean almost everything. That's all Jimmy Wales meant. It has nothing to do with his likes or dislikes of Bitcoin.

One thing granted. If everything in the world and finance continues on, basically as it is going right now, Bitcoin has the chance of dramatically changing the world way more than any Forex fiat currency.

With a few tweaks, couldn't escrow be made friendly, right inside the client? And wouldn't that be just about the same thing as reversability? Should a date be added where the escrow would be cancelled, and the transaction would automatically go through?

Actually, the whole idea of reversability beyond escrow is stupid. Escrow is almost like reversability as it is. Either you give the other guy his money or you don't. If you can't trust him at a distance, then get face-to-face with him and use cash. And keep your gun with you in case he grabs the product back out of your hands after you pay him. And if he has a bunch of his buddies along with him, come back when you have your buddies with you - all heavily armed, of course.

The point is, escrow companies are all that we need. The next best thing is the thing that LocalBitcoins and Bitcoin-Otc are doing. Rating the users so that we know who to deal with.

In all events, only trade small amounts until you are certain you are dealing with reputable people. Reversability amounts to built-in stealability.

Bitcoin is becoming very popular. BitcoinTalk is going to have to increase bandwidth.

Of course, it may have been a DDoS attack.

How about: "I'm not going to read the comments in this thread, because some of them might be mine."

I don't know what to think. Most of the time when a site is so light that I can barely read it, all I have to do is highlight the whole page, and then it is readable. The http://bitcoinscrypt.org/ page doesn't work. So, I finally copied it and pasted it into a Wordpad doc. Now I can read it, but some of the site significance is lost. I need to go read the READ MORE.

Almost couldn't have said it better myself. Look at the Bitcoin pseudo-science duck/quackery. The only reason that bankers don't use the word "Ponzi" with Bitcoin is that they don't even notice Bitcoin for the most part. Same said for modern medicine and MMS/Jim Humble. The evidence is out there for all to see.

Donate bitcoin to Wikipedia, but get a second opinion to see where the pseudo-science duck/quackery lies.



EDIT: Thanks for mentioning about Kevin Trudeau. Hadn't heard about him for years. Too bad someone who has so much good info, also has his share of larceny. Most of his info is available from many other sources. Much of it is good info. It would be interesting to hear a "translation" by a lawyer of the legal language of his conviction, into layman's terms. Often the media hides the FACTS, giving readers the info that they would like the readers to believe. And Wikipedia, of course, lists it as the media writers who have Wikipedia accounts write it.

True humility involves being realistic in everything.

I'm honored. Thank you.

That's part of the reason that Satoshi developed Bitcoin. He resented the bankers, and he DID understand how and why the system works.

Average folks resent things more, as you say, because they don't understand. That doesn't mean they try to do anything about it. Rather, they complain to their buddies at work, and go on being poor. There are a few, however, who DO improve themselves.

When Bitcoin becomes the norm, and fiat fails, then those folks will get on board. But by then you and I will be extremely wealthy. So, let's not talk about it except among ourselves. Let's save up bitcoins for those few favored friends and family who won't do it for themselves.

The odds are almost infinitely better playing the lottery. But if you can do it, be sure to give them back, so that you can live with yourself.

That's terrific wisdom! Why? Because other people will get involved sooner or later. And the longer it takes, the more time we have to save up more fiat to buy more bitcoins before they go to $10,000 or $100,000.

The best plan would be to migrate Bitcoin to the quantum computer when it first comes online. From what I hear, doing that would make it a whole lot safer encryption-wise, even from other quantum computers, and a whole lot more private.

Becoming a hermit might be a good idea except for the "not even yourself" part.

Seems to me that Wikipedia can be deceptive. Here is an example of what I mean.

MMS, promoted by Jim Humble, is listed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement. The Wikipedia report there suggests that MMS is dangerous. And that would be okay if it were true.

So what is true? Who knows? But Jim Humble and his people report that it is curing all kinds of things. See http://mmsnews.org/, or Google "MMS Jim Humble."

So, why hasn't Jim Humble made a Wikipedia page that shows the good that MMS is doing? Ages ago Mr. Humble did just that. But whenever he would write up the Wikipedia article showing all the good MMS was doing, an hour or two later someone else had edited it into something showing that MMS was bad.

The point is, if Wikipedia starts using Bitcoin in a big way, we who help Jimmy Wales are promoting a lot of falsehood and deception right along with the good info. In other words, fiat currencies can be used for good or bad. But the major thing that they are being used for is to promote a centralized system that controls the economies of nations to the detriment of the little people. Wikipedia is being used the same way through the method that anyone can join and make changes to the articles there.

Seems to me that MaidSafe has done a lot of what it takes to encrypt and decentralize the whole Internet. And it seems to be free except for development of apps that ride on the MaidSafe system, for which they are asking 1% of the earnings for apps running on Maidsafe and earning income. Now 1% may or may not be fair. But here is what they have that May not be around anywhere else yet.

What they have is that they are ready to go right now. A few parts of their program may be in Alpha, but most of it is in Beta or later. General usage is free.

A currency exchange could be built on top of their system. By its nature, it would be encrypted. And on top of the MaidSafe encryption would be the Bitcoin or other currencies' encryption. The exchange encryption would be on top of it all. Margin accounts could be added and be automatic. It would be extremely difficult for governments to stop it without disrupting their whole communications systems. Once this system is set up, banking as we know it will be a thing of the past.

I haven't used MaidSafe, yet. I have it downloaded; haven't installed it. But I am sure there must be those that are running it right now. To my way of thinking, MaidSafe wouldn't be effective until a lot of folks were running it. The only reason that Bitcoin took off as well as it did was that there is "money" and profit built right into it. The profit in MaidSafe isn't direct profit. It would be seen in app sales, or in usage profits, which are indirect. But... an entirely active, worldwide MaidSafe would make privacy and stability of the Internet to be a whole lot better. And, to my way of thinking, it would make the automatic exchange(s) way more private, and virtually foolproof until the arival of the quantum computer.

In the MaidSafe cloud, a piece of the hash here, a piece of the hash there, and you with the only key(s) to connect them all.