Except it demonstrably does. It can be redeemed for real-world goods and services.  There's a network of physical devices around the world to relay transactions.  People have founded companies which exist solely to cater to this new economy. Real, tangible bricks-and-mortar establishments.  Other forms of physical infrastructure exist to support it, like a dedicated satellite network.  It doesn't get more real than this.  

But if you are continuing to be willfully ignorant to the obvious, I refer you back to my previous points:


We gain the benefits of:


And you don't gain those benefits.  Sucks to be you.

Except they absolutely can be fake.  You'd have to be completely braindead to think gold scams don't exist.  And the reason they exist is because of trust.  If someone mistakenly places trust in the wrong third party, they can easily be ripped off.  They'll find themselves unable to access the gold they believe they have purchased.

Bitcoin is designed to remove the need for trust (assuming you use it correctly).  It's all about being able to verify things for yourself without relying on anyone else.  Every time you ask us to show you where the bitcoins are, I just read it is as you demonstrating your need to be utterly reliant on others.  Some people just can't handle the responsibility of self-determination.  Their loss, I guess.

What's important is that I know where my bitcoins are, or, in essence, the private keys allowing me to spend my bitcoins (but naturally I have no interest in sharing that with either you or anyone else).  And the location of anyone else's bitcoins, or again, the keys to spend them, is none of my business.  Or yours.  But as for your feigning ignorance as to how it all works, I'm guessing anyone who has had as many accounts as you've had over the years must have grasped the concept by now and you're just being deliberately obnoxious in acting like you don't know.  Although, I suppose I can't rule out the possibility that you're even dumber than I'm giving you credit for.  In which case, I'd suggest posting less and reading more until you understand it better.

So, all of us in this forum think different than you, but you are convinced that you are right. I am telling you that Bitcoin doesn't have to be a representation of something because it's not any number. It's a digital commodity that a miner gets as a reward for doing the computation task. And because it's a digital commodity, it doesn't have to represent anything - it represents itself just like an ounce of gold doesn't have to represent anything - it's an ounce of gold. The only difference is that Bitcoin is digital commodity and gold is physical commodity.

As much as I would like to debate with you about this, I don't see a point. You have your opinion just like you had before with other accounts. I was just wondering why are you so eager to convince everyone here on forum dedicated to Bitcoin and crypto in general that Bitcoin doesn't exist? If I remember right, I told you few years ago when you were here under a different account that it's like coming to a cat forum saying cats are the worst pets ever and dogs are great!

You created a video for this nonsense? Oh my God, you are even more crazier than I thought.

OK, I agree that there is nothing physical behind Bitcoin like there is with traditional commodities. But you are looking at Bitcoin in the wrong way. Bitcoin is not a representation of something physical. It is Bitcoin. Just like an ounce of gold is an ounce of gold, one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. There is nothing behind an ounce of gold because it's just an once of gold. It's the same with Bitcoin.

And Bitcoin is not just a number in a database. Go ahead and try to put a number into a Bitcoin's public ledger. If you manage to do that, I will buy that number from you.

OK. It is your thread so I'll bite...

You're saying that Bitcoin does not exist. How is Bitcoin different than fiat money used to pay online? For example, I just bought sneakers online with my credit card. The money I paid for the sneakers is also just a number in a bank's database, isn't it?

Don't answer my question with a question. I asked you a simple question - why are you not here when Bitcoin's price is rising? You always come here when the price is falling. When you answer my question, then I'll answer yours.

I'm really fascinated about two things. The first thing I'm fascinated about is that you are still coming back after all those years. Don't bother convincing me or anyone on this forum that you are not the same person as antikvark, fxsurfer, antithesis or some other account I can't remember. It's clear that you are the same person and you will probably be banned again for ban evasion.

The second thing I'm fascinated about is that you always come to this forum during the bear market. How come you don't post anything when Bitcoin is in a bull run?

There are limits to that, though.  It assumes good intent on both sides, which really wasn't the case here.  This was never going to be a healthy discussion.  When someone like the OP is determined to hold a dishonest and overtly hostile position from start to finish, it's certainly not healthy for the community to allow them to spread misinformation totally unopposed.

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And you're certainly not the only one.  There are plenty of people out there who either don't get it, thinks it's fake, or believe it has no value.  But do you know what you have in common with such people?  

Those who are blind to opportunities are unable to seize upon them.  

If you miss out because you were too ignorant to see the light, it's your own stupid fault.  And I'm pretty certain you're going to regret it one day.  

Assuming you don't already, that is.  I'm actually starting to wonder if maybe your fixation with registering all these accounts and spouting all this hostility for all these years is nothing more than bitterness on your part, since you know you messed up by not being a part of this earlier when you had the chance.  It must suck to be you if I'm right.

But, does it or not after all?

Anyway, you don't want to understand. I'll leave you to your own desperation.

And that tells me everything. It's really amazing how creative you can be when forced into a corner.

Here are a few more details to substantiate my "fiction".

A few days before you created a new account here and started this topic, you posted this on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tc0wkg/comment/i0c6edy/

You use the nickname "Policajac", which is a Croatian word for policeman. This indicates you are from Croatia or speak Croatian. Both, "fxsurfer" and "antikvark", were active in the Croatian local. Coincidence?

Don't bullshit a bullshitter. Just admit it and move on.

So you're saying you're not that guy? You're not from Croatia (or don't speak Croatian)?

It needs creativity from your part. You, specifically, lack in it.

No, you're indeed that guy and I can understand this from your writing style. For example, you use the same words/phrases they used ("Sherlock", "non-existent" etc.), you quote posts exactly as they did. You're also the only person who keeps opening this kind of topics.

Do you ever have the feeling that you're the smartest person in the room? Like, so smart no one understands you?

Focus on what I write to you and don't repeat the same bullshit all over again.

We don't communicate. These are the "wonderful features" you asked for.

Maybe that’s your own understanding  of what Bitcoin is all about. But I don’t really agree with you on that because of the part where you said that people receive Bitcoin without receiving ownership of the property (asset). Anyone who receives Bitcoin receives full ownership of the Bitcoin that they have received in their wallet. As long as you have the private keys to that wallet then the bitcoins that are stored there belongs to you.

The only time I would say that you don’t have ownership of the wallet is when you are making use of custodial wallets whereby you wouldn’t have control over your private keys and the only thing you do is to just give order to execute transactions and nothing more.

Yea, I'm sure this is the same guy. This genius keeps popping up every now and then with his 'Bitcoin has no value' FUD.
He is probably Croatian (or at least Croatian-speaking), but since we've doxed his ass, he no longer has the balls to post in a Croatian local section. The guy works for a government financial agency, so he has some background in economics, but when it comes to anything else he is as thick as a plank.

He's been spreading FUD and trolling here for years, and he starts over every time with a fresh new account.

Known alt accounts:
fxsurfer [BANNED]
antikvark
Antithesis

So, don't feed the troll!  

The public ledger exists. The numbers of the public ledger indicate the space of it.

That's down to the individuals who'll agree to use it to transact with. Not to you.

A blind person can't see them. A deaf can't listen them. Don't they exist?

Here they are: https://bitcoin.it/

That is correct.

This is also true.

That's false, because money is used to settle transactions and Bitcoin is also used to settle transactions. People find it satisfactory to use a public, decentralized and censorship-resistant ledger to deal with. The units can be defined as space in the ledger even if they don't represent something that is tangible.

If it was meaningless, you could cheat those people electronic pockets. It's just a number that doesn't represent anything, as you put it, but you can't change it. The censorship resistance suddenly proves its usefulness.

But, a flying spaghetti monster isn't easy to transfer neither to verify, let alone to divide it. It doesn't meet the requirements to be money. However, if we found another object or some sort of global ledger where we can sign our dues (even if those numbers don't represent anything), we can use it as currency.

This is Bitcoin. It doesn't represent ANYTHING. It only gives us an idea of who's paid their dues. If lots believe it can work as money, because it meet the requirements to be one, above and beyond, then who're you to claim it doesn't?

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Back to the fiat currency: It represents only a title that is recognizable by the state. Do you agree that a person can use a medium of exchange whose usage isn't being forced?

Bitcoin can also be loaned.

Where's this "dollar" product? How does it look like?  

It turns out that we disagree of what's money. You say that it's solely debt. I agree with this definition:
And Bitcoin fulfills it.

The answer to a question such as "Bitcoin is meaningless" requires further discussion. I can't give you any answers until I ensure we understand money in the same way.

You're perpetually trying to change the subject. Debt isn't inextricably connected with money. It's created after we've agreed on which currency will be used in our transactions. Two entities, a customer and a merchant can agree to settle their transaction with debt, but without using a fiat currency. For instance, the customer gets their product after they've promised the merchant that they'll deliver them precious rocks. That's also debt.

I repeat, the central bank can create money without any citizen's or commercial bank's permission. That money can be later used to increase debt and be exchanged for goods and services. You're describing what happens afterwards the money is created. The central bank can also be used as a metaphor to the "numbers from a software" you've outlined.

To give you an example: Commercial banks could instead of borrowing from the central bank, gather and decide to setup their own digital currency, which will be used later for loans with collaterals etc.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30469383