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421  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 21, 2024, 02:16:44 AM
Commerce with Bitcoin is going to be:
Very large transactions on-chain.
"Everyday" small transactions on 2nd layer like LN or on centralized subnetworks in the ecosystem built by companies like PayPal, Venmo, Coinbase, banks, Binance, etc

What is the advantage of doing very large transactions on-chain though? At that point, why not just do all of the transactions off-chain?

The bigger the transaction, the more people want real identity (unless you are doing money laundering or tax evasion or whatever).

In other words, I think people want the very opposite of what you are proposing: they want anonymity for small transactions and personal identity for big ones. Who would want to buy their house or car or keep their life savings with a private key they could physically lose or be stolen? My house is in my name and nobody can take that away from me. Same with my car. Same with my savings account.

The cash in my wallet, on the other hand, is not connected to anything and that's the way I like it. If I lose it then I'm fine with that--I'll trade that off for the anonymity physical cash gives me.

Cryptos are great as investment instruments, but in terms of what consumers want in currency, it has it exactly backwards.

422  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 20, 2024, 09:24:31 PM
While I agree partly that in the current reality in early 2024 "investment" (aka speculation) is the main goal most people follow when they buy Bitcoin, I disagree that there is some hard technical limitation which makes Bitcoin qualify as an investment asset only, forever. This only applies to on-chain Bitcoin transactions.

There are challenges in the scaling issue, yes, but there are also solutions. Lightning is struggling a bit with adoption currently, but there is finally some movement with sidechains (ZK rollups etc.) and other L2 solutions, where slowly more decentralized concepts appear. As on Ethereum there is already more variety, and the concept seems viable and popular, I don't see why this shouldn't be achievable with Bitcoin too.

If you were right this would actually be a quite pessimistic stance. As an "investment" vehicle alone, Bitcoin would not have any real value. Bitcoin has USPs like censorship resistance and worldwide availability. While these characteristics can also appeal to "investors", if they "invest" using their own wallet, investing in a Bitcoin ETF or "exchange bitcoin" does actually not make use of them.

IMO you're seeing the crypto world a bit black and white. Some of your forum contributions are interesting and valid but others are not.

(And if you want to direct the focus to altcoins: all cryptocurrencies face the same challenge between node decentralization and on-chain throughput. If there was any breakthrough there, Bitcoin could adopt it.)

They've been working on the scalability problem for 13 years now, which in the realm of high-tech might as well be a thousand years. It's not a problem that's going to get solved. The idea that every daily worldwide transaction that occurs in the whole world gets copied thousands of times to thousands of servers is simply not viable.

And Lightning is both not a solution at high scale and it is also centralized. Same with the L2 solutions. They are no different than any standard bank or Paypal transaction. If you are going to use a centralized architecture, Haypenny is the way to do it since it's a paradigm that is centralized from the very beginning. "Centralized blockchain" is like alcohol-free vodka: it's a waste of time. Regardless, even centralized blockchain won't get you the scale necessary to be a real alternative to today's bank and physical cash transactions, and it's needlessly complicated for the end-user.

And if Bitcoin isn't valuable purely an investment vehicle, that is... news to most retail Bitcoin investors who don't hold their own physical private key and probably don't even know what that is Smiley. Millions of people clearly love the idea of an investment vehicle and don't care about the technical details. I don't think that's... pessimistic...

423  Other / Politics & Society / Re: dump the Trump? on: February 20, 2024, 08:47:32 PM
Bitcoin has come back lately, not because of Biden, but because people are expecting a Trump win, and they are preparing for it. Notice that when Tucker Carlson announced and aired his Putin video - a Trump-style free enterprise interview video - that's when Bitcoin jumped $10,000 in two weeks - from the $42-thousands to the $52-thousands.

Bitcoin has leveled off because the big Bitcoin controllers are watching how the public is reacting to Trump-style freedom. So far, more and more people are siding with Trump, even though the Deep State monkeys are doing their utmost this side of assassinating him to stop him.


So if Bitcoin goes up while Biden is president, then it's Trump's fault, but when it went down during Trump's presidency, it was Biden's fault. Sure.

Of course given Bitcoin's market volatility, the reality is that no president will make any difference in the price whatsoever, but that won't very good partisan politics I guess.
424  Other / Politics & Society / Re: dump the Trump? on: February 20, 2024, 07:09:24 PM
I'm not in the US so I'm looking at how all of it goes sitting comfortably in the EU.

To those of you who say Trump is the worst candidate, would you rather have Biden? I'm not a Trump lover, but from a bitcoiner's perspective Biden has been the worst. He gave free reign to attack bitcoin because he doesn't understand it and his friend Elizabeth Warren is working hard to tell lies about bitcoin like the one about it being used to finance Islamic terrorism.

I'd support either Rob Kennedy, or Vivek, but if it came down to Trump vs Biden, I'd vote for Trump. I don't agree with him on a few things, for instance I think that the US should continue to support Ukraine, but I'd hate myself if I helped Biden win. I'd vote for Trump, or not at all.

If Trump pulls the US out of NATO, which he has promised to do, then you won't be sitting comfortably in the EU anymore, and it won't matter how much your Bitcoin is worth Smiley.

Also, Bitcoin is bouncing off it's all-time highs under Biden, so I really can't imagine why you'd be against Biden if all you care about in the world is your Bitcoin price going up...



425  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 20, 2024, 06:27:58 PM
Effectively, people are trading dollars in for a digital piece of paper that says you own x amount of Bitcoin and the only positive side is that they do not have to worry about losing any private keys because someone else is buying and hodling the real Bitcoin for them. The good thing for Bitcoiners is that this creates an increased demand for the buying of actual Bitcoin. But that's as far as it goes when it comes to the question of how much influence do ETFs have over Bitcoin.

And just like with CEXs buying up huge amounts of Bitcoin, all the ETFs do is speed up the demand and adoption of Bitcoin. Something which would happen without them anyway. Just much slower.

Well, not a piece of paper, but rather an entry in some database somewhere. But yes, that's the idea. The way people own Bitcoin this way is completely centralized.

And yes, as I've said in my article on this subject, most people don't want to hold a chunk of their life savings by some means they could simply misplace or have physically stolen from them. Most people want an "investment account" that is attached to their identity as a person for that kind of amount of money.

And yes, the "only" thing these people do is make Bitcoin a popular investment making it worth billions of dollars in the marketplace rather that a technical curiosity like it was when Bitcoins cost less than one dollar. If you want to call that thing, "small", well, that's your prerogative, but it sure doesn't seem "small" to me Smiley.

And all Bitcoin is, in reality, is an investment asset. The blockchain architecture cannot scale to handle even a tiny fraction of worldwide daily transactions and it was arguably never even meant to do that. That means all people can do with it is invest in it as an asset they hold in a relatively large quantities and trade relatively rarely, just like they would a stock or an ETF.

In fact, when you say "adoption" here, what you are actually talking about is investor adoption. Bitcoin isn't going to be used for anything because it isn't technically suitable for anything else.

And you aren't going to get more adoption if you dismiss 95% of investors as "fake".

426  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 20, 2024, 03:41:15 PM
[...]
ETF's are fake Bitcoin. The worst that these CEXes can do is manipulate the price of Bitcoin by selling/buying.

I think you touch upon the heart of the debate here by calling ETFs (and I would presume their close cousins, Bitcoin purchased through brokers like Binance and CoinBase), "fake".

It's fine if you want to call somebody who doesn't physically hold their private key, "fake" and in a way I agree with you, but Gensler is only looking at the current practical reality of the situation, which is that most of the retail investors in the USA--the ones he's supposed to protect from fraud---are these "fake" Bitcoin holders.

And if all of those "fake" holders left the market, Bitcoin would probably drop in price by about 95%.

For most average holders of a Bitcoin investment today, their holding is kept in a centralized Oracle database (or whatever) and the "decentralized" aspect of Bitcoin itself means absolutely nothing to them.

So it's absolutely correct for Gensler to treat Bitcoin just like any other investment instrument the public can buy, like stocks or derivatives or ETFs or anything else. They all work exactly the same way, as far as your average consumer is concerned.

427  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Stand with Ukraine: Petition to sign. on: February 20, 2024, 03:18:29 AM
Since Ukraine is essentially Russia and Russian, the best way to stand with Ukraine is to oust Zelensky, and to formally make peace with Putin. Putin would gladly help Ukraine if they did this; he is helping people of other nations... unlike Biden who is off making wars around the world, to the detriment of the American people.


What is sad to me is that I'm almost certain the only reason you say that is because Trump likes Russia and Putin. If Trump thought otherwise, your opinion would be reversed.



428  Other / Politics & Society / Re: dump the Trump? on: February 20, 2024, 12:35:42 AM
I don't think the Republican voting base's love for Trump is rooted in anything rational.

If Trump dropped out of the race (for whatever reason), then 50% of Republican voters wouldn't even show up to vote, leading to massive landslides by the other side.

And Bannon was pardoned by Trump for ripping off his own voters. I'm not sure they care about money.

429  Other / Serious discussion / Re: Real design wins for blockchain? on: February 20, 2024, 12:13:38 AM
Why cant people create something that will be really interesting. I mean there have been some interesting projects back then and the dev abandoned it. Now there are new and new projects coming out that cease to exist after few months if not weeks. What is the point of it? I have idea that might work. But I cant find a skilled dev who is not traing to scam in the beggining.

What is the project you have in mind?

430  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 19, 2024, 05:09:45 PM
So yeah, Common Gary L. He's always painted bitcoin in a precarious spot ever since he stepped into the throne. I don't like how he's painting bitcoin to be when millions of people around the planet had benefited from it and none of this would've happened in the first place if bitcoin's unreliable and centralized. Let that sink in.

I think the way most investors use Bitcoin today--wherein they don't physically hold their own private keys--demonstrates the exact opposite: that if Bitcoin were conceived as a reliable centralized system (e.g. like any standard financial institution), it would be far more popular and ubiquitous than it is today because it would actually work as a mainstream currency and not just an investment instrument.

Consumers don't care about technical terms like "decentralization", they just want an investment instrument that makes them a profit, and/or they want a cheap and fast means of performing anonymous transactions. Bitcoin can do the first, but it can't do the second. A currency that could do both, in my opinion, will eventually be much more popular than Bitcoin--and "decentralization" won't have anything to do with it.

431  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "I'm DONE With The Left!" Joe Rogan BLASTS Liberal "Cult" on: February 19, 2024, 05:01:21 PM
Biden is getting old and he isn't a very smooth speaker (and he never really was), but he certainly still has full command of his ideas and I have no doubt he's able to convey them to his staff very clearly and run the country just fine.

Trump, meanwhile, is... absolutely gone. Here he is talking about NATO. Repeat, he is talking about the US staying in NATO here:

Why should you just hand it over to ’em? Do it as a form of a loan. I do that with athletes, they can’t quite, like a professional golfer who I think is very good, they don’t have any money, but they have a lot of talent. I’ll say here’s the deal, I did it with a number of people, here’s the deal, what I wanna do professional golfer, play golf, I play very nice. Did you see the picture of me, the horrible picture with the stomach out to here? That was… So what I do is, I’m putting up today a picture of me, actually, what I actually look like, hitting a ball, smashing the fricking ball, and you’ll see quite — I wouldn’t say slim. I wouldn’t say slim. But not bad. But the ball does go far. I would say it goes about nine times further than Biden can hit it.

Ever since the break-up of the USSR in 1991, Russia has been trying to join the USDollar world economy. They even requested to join NATO, but were turned down by the US.

NATO is a has-been organization. Time to shut her down and move into the modern world. Don't simply try to conquer Russia and steal her lands. Rather, make her a partner with us all, and gain access to everything she has the easy way.

Actually the Soviets had to base their supply system on the US dollar since they had no way of doing price discovery otherwise. In other words, they couldn't discover how much to charge for things.

Of course that was only when the system functioned normally, which is almost never did and was instead just a kleptocracy wherein corruption determined the flow of goods (and it still is today).

But yes, Russian thugs have wanted to demolish NATO since it was formed so they could achieve their dream of taking over the rest of Europe. Without NATO, Poland, then Germany, than France, then England would all fall like dominos one by one to Russia aggression. Putin has proven in word and deed that he plans to carry this out if he is given the chance.

432  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "I'm DONE With The Left!" Joe Rogan BLASTS Liberal "Cult" on: February 19, 2024, 04:26:32 PM
Does America have good alternatives? Is it a better idea to choose Trump? A person who says that he'd encourage Russia to attack NATO countries who don't pay? Both of them are such a bad decision that I think, anarchy will be a better idea. There is a man who doesn't remember anything and has no idea what's happening but on another hand there is a man who is a crazy.

Biden is getting old and he isn't a very smooth speaker (and he never really was), but he certainly still has full command of his ideas and I have no doubt he's able to convey them to his staff very clearly and run the country just fine.

Trump, meanwhile, is... absolutely gone. Here he is talking about NATO. Repeat, he is talking about the US staying in NATO here:

Why should you just hand it over to ’em? Do it as a form of a loan. I do that with athletes, they can’t quite, like a professional golfer who I think is very good, they don’t have any money, but they have a lot of talent. I’ll say here’s the deal, I did it with a number of people, here’s the deal, what I wanna do professional golfer, play golf, I play very nice. Did you see the picture of me, the horrible picture with the stomach out to here? That was… So what I do is, I’m putting up today a picture of me, actually, what I actually look like, hitting a ball, smashing the fricking ball, and you’ll see quite — I wouldn’t say slim. I wouldn’t say slim. But not bad. But the ball does go far. I would say it goes about nine times further than Biden can hit it.
433  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "I'm DONE With The Left!" Joe Rogan BLASTS Liberal "Cult" on: February 19, 2024, 04:15:18 PM
I could be Trump simply acting on his instincts, to be honest. He may have not thought much about the consequences of asking for their Republicans companions to reject the immigration law, he simply thought that, since the border is pretty much one of his main campaign topics, he cannot allow the problem to be solved before his presidency, assuming he wins.
Though, it is obvious New York has been a city of immigrants, almost the beginning, the phenomenon we are seeing nowadays is different from what we have seen before in terms of volume of people and the funding available for them.

The situation is already being used by pro Republican media, pointing out how schools and hotels are being used to house immigrants and how they are given thousands of dollars in gift cards, so they can get food and other necessities. That would certainly feel many people in the United States (who are struggling) uncomfortable, specially with the whole homelessness problem going on in big cities of the country, like those in the state of California.

Yep, too clever by half, as they say. Now Democrats have a very strong story to tell on immigration they didn't have before.

And while I am too lazy to google it all right now, I suspect that the number of immigrants coming through Ellis Island and into New York at its peak was many times what they seeing now (ratio to population), and I also suspect the funds available back then was a fraction of what it is now. The difference today is that Americans are more entitled than they've ever been. I'm not saying that's not a real political problem--it absolutely is--but for what it's worth, we've dealt with an "immigration crisis" many times worse than this one multiple times in our past.



434  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 19, 2024, 07:30:38 AM
[...]
I guess that Gensler is mistaking decentralization with redistribution.
[...]

He's really not. If you read what he says in context, you'd see that he's pointing out that almost all investors in Bitcoin don't physically hold their own private key, meaning that their holding of Bitcoin is stored in some centralized Oracle database just like any bank account or brokerage holder would be.

For almost all individual holders of Bitcoin, there is nothing "decentralized" about Bitcoin--it's just a brand name they are betting will become incrementally more popular, meaning the value of their holding will go up in value so they can sell it at a profit.

You can talk all day long about what Bitcoin is supposed to be, the reality is that it's just not used that way by most investors. For most it's no more "decentralized" than AAPL, MSFT, or USD in a checking account.

435  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 18, 2024, 09:58:59 PM
The large amount of bitcoins held at CEX like Binance or etfs like IBIT are not owned by one entity. They are their customers funds. So what you are saying doesn’t apply.

When it comes to decentralization I think the way the hash power is distributed is more important. I remember back in the early days there was over 51% of hashpower in a single pool. We don’t have that problem anymore. China has less hashpower than before and it’s more distributed throughout the planet.

I actually think that's his whole point: those customers own an entry in an Oracle database that is attached to their real-world identity. They don't know anything about "decentralized" and they don't care.

Most holders of Bitcoin don't benefit from the "decentralized" nature of Bitcoin, nor do they care.

Since Bitcoin could never scale to being a mainstream digital currency that could handle worldwide transaction volume, it's only remaining utility is to be an investment instrument--which is exactly how it's used today.

And since that is, de facto, how most people use the product, then he's right in saying it's not really decentralized in a way that most consumers care about.

436  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gary Gensler: "Bitcoin is not that decentralized" on: February 18, 2024, 08:09:29 PM
He's absolutely right, in the context in which he was speaking.

In all practicality, most holders of Bitcoin (in terms of numbers of individual holders) use some kind of centralized entity to hold their private key, which is in turn connected to your name, address, social security number, and so on.

In other words, most Bitcoin investors hold Bitcoin in the same way they hold AAPL or MSFT.

That's not in any remote way, "decentralized". Most investors don't even know what a "private key" is, let alone keep it physically on their person.

As I wrote in the Anon Paradox, most average consumers don't want the kind of "privacy" that means escaping the government, they just want their actions kept from everybody else but a government with a court-ordered subpoena. For the latter, the only people that actually care about that are those who go against the law where they live, and most people don't want to tangle with their government.

So Bitcoin's decentralized architecture is not a value to most people who invest in Bitcoin, so it makes sense that most people don't use it that way.

Today, in practical reality, Bitcoin for most people is an investment in a brand, or an abstract idea, or a name that they know and think will go up in value. They don't know what it means and they don't care.

Yes, the blockchain architecture enables a decentralized ledger, and yes, technically Bitcoin is decentralized, but that's not the way consumers use it, and that's what somebody like Gary Gensler concerns himself with in his role as SEC chair.

437  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Biden called Putin who he is on: February 18, 2024, 04:35:34 PM
The only reason we have a faction of Americans who support Putin is because Trump told them to. The only reason Trump supports Putin is because he helped him get elected in 2016, tried again to help i 2020, and will try yet again this year.

My hope is that when Trump goes away, this madness in our country will subside and we'll stop giving aid and comfort to our enemy.

438  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "I'm DONE With The Left!" Joe Rogan BLASTS Liberal "Cult" on: February 17, 2024, 03:03:40 AM
In my opinion, the Democrat party is underestimating the importance of the southern border of the United States and the influx of immigrants into the country. At first, what the governor of Texas (Greg Abbot) was doing with sending immigrants to sanctuary cities like New York was perceived as a political stunt, something which was not supposed to be taken seriously, but the governor has managed to prove his point on immigration and making the State of New York to feel the pressure of having thousands of new people to take care of there. It won't make New York to be one a red State not it could certainly make the American public opinion to flip against Biden inaction on the issue. I have seen reports about the authorities of those cities to feel abandoned by the federal government, since they do not have enough funding by their own to take care of that quantity of immigrants, many coming from Venezuela, by the way.

When most of immigrants were on Texas, Arizona and California, it was difficult for the people of New York to image the dramatic situation Republicans usually talked about on Television and on social media, now that New York is slowly but steadily becoming a "border city" some new yorkers will start to feel what people from Texas have felt for a long time and pay more attention to what both sides of the political spectrum have to say in this matter, whether the Republican solution makes more sense than the Democrat will depend on the political leaning of each one of those open to solutions. Democrats need to be careful on the issue, otherwise, it will become a strong point to rally for Trump, regardless he opposed to fix the problem before or not. Maga does not care about that fact.

If facts don't matter--which for a lot of Trump's voters, they don't--then what Democrats do or don't do at the border won't matter.

I think the New York special election showed that Democrats have made a lot of headway among independents with respect to immigration because of the Republicans blocking their own legislation. Democrats, wisely, gave away the farm in that bill, and Republicans turned them down because Trump told them to. And Biden said he wanted to shut down the border (which is political fluff, but fine), but the Republicans are stopping him.

What this tells independents is that Democrats want to solve the problem and Republicans just want to play political games and follow Trump's orders no matter how daft. (The more the election can be about Trump himself, the more it helps Democrats, I suspect).

And by the way, New York has been a "border city" for a very long time :-). I think they know a thing or two about immigrants there.

I really think Republicans stepped in it (or fell into a trap if you will) with their veto of the bi-partisan border deal. Trump may have thought he was being really clever, but instead he just gave Democrats an opening to turn immigration in their favor.
439  Other / Politics & Society / Trump owes more than $440 million in fines, damages from civil trials on: February 16, 2024, 10:11:52 PM
Another big Trump-related story today:

Trump owes more than $440 million in fines, damages from civil trials

I guess Trump's donors had better get cracking and send in more donations (or maybe just cease to carefully disconnect those force-clicked recurring donations).

440  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "I'm DONE With The Left!" Joe Rogan BLASTS Liberal "Cult" on: February 16, 2024, 10:06:28 PM
[...]
Biden is not perfect, he could indeed manage the immigration crisis in a better way and the response to the Hamas attack and the war unleashed in the middle east could have been better to avoid the risks of escalation, but if you take a look at the economy, it seems to be doing good under Biden: record low unemployment, stock market in All Time Highs, inflation going down and the interest rates have been decelerating. If Biden was younger and did not have so many cognitive moments in front of the cameras and off the record, then Trump would be in trouble to defeat him next November. Just my opinion, of course. 

Biden is at least trying to manage the border--whereas House Republicans are blocking him from doing so because they want the border situation to be terrible so Trump will get elected.

If you want the situation at the border to improve, vote Democrat this November and give Biden a majority in the House so they can pass something that will help.

Israel is a no-win situation for any American president because (unless you are extreme MAGA) nobody wants to abandon Israel and leave them at Iran's mercy, but they are responding with awfulness of their own.

Meanwhile, Trump just lost his first major court case today, and he'll probably lose a lot more of them before November, and might even be locked up by then. I don't think the election is even going to be close and the only open question is whether Democrats will be able to hold on to the Senate. The GOP turning its back on the border situation for pure politics is going to cost them, as we just saw with the special election in NY.


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