He is shorting 17k with USD as leverage, he did not cause a 170k dump  I disagree, this is certainly possible, the weakness on the tape was palpable...just needed a push Don't you think we might have seen 170k in extra volume today had there actually been a 170k coin dump? Look at his numbers on the screenshot and tell me whether you see 170k coins anywhere. |
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bitcoinica is Awesome   Shorting 17K bitcoins at 10:1 caused a massive dump of coins on the market (170k) which would fully explain the crash we just experienced happened. I hope someone takes this asshole out by buying and liquidating his position. At first I was thinking this was Zhoutong himself but from this users post it appears to be them. I've explained this in the other thread. He had $13k of his own money in there, giving him enough leverage at 10:1 and $6 per coin to go short around 21k coins. Don't you think the market might have reacted a bit more violently to 170k coins? The guy made a lot of money, but I know people who had larger short positions who made even more money off of this. It isn't dishonorable; it's just spotting what they think to be bubbles and profiting off of them. At that kind of leverage ratio, they could get completely screwed by a tiny bit of bad luck if the market is a little more exuberant than they think. |
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So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash
Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.
Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching? Look at the order its 17k BTC. Unless I am understanding it incorrectly bitcoinica only operates in BTC so that 17k is that. When you go to close your position the the profit or loss on the right is multiplied by your leverage. He is leeching because he is just doing this to make money (steal money from bitcoin users). I would disagree however if he took this money and reinvested as bitcoin but something tells me that this user is not that type of a person. With all due respect, I don't think you quite understand how it works. Well then it worked incorrectly when i tried it with the $0.70 worth of codes Zhoutong gave the other day. I tried both short and long and this is exactly how it worked when I did it (profit/loss multiplied by leverage) You probably just misunderstood it then. It's never behaved like that. |
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So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash
Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.
Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching? The most amazing thing is even I could have done this and plenty of other people easily could have too. $13k isn't that much money to front to profitably cause this kind of market trauma. This guy did it, he made a lot of cash, and the entire bitcoin community and project is worse off for it. Well done. He really didn't "do it" himself. I know someone whose bitcoinica short was significantly larger than this and who made even more than this guy, and his orders had almost no visible effect on mtgox. I'd imagine it was several people like this who led to bitcoinica finally passing the trades through to mtgox, plus probably some people trading directly on mtgox. |
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So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash
Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.
Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching? |
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She will sell it if I don't come up with the money by Friday. If there was someone with a car dolly near buy that would be great. The car has been garage kept also.
I think it would help if you addressed P4man's question. Is your mom just "strange" or super impatient or in a huge rush to get cash for some reason, or does she just not expect you to come through? |
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Thank you, confirming loan sent, 17.5 Btc to be payed to SilverLeaf on January 21st.  Fourthed. |
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Totally agree that bitcoin is too complex for the lame people in its current form.
Yes, PGP might be able to prove you are really who you say you are. BUT, someone can also point a gun at you, and tell you to lie, or steal your PGP key. Thus, PGP is useless in that scenario.
Heatware.com provides a rating system. If you think someone else is simply pointing to another people's account, you can always ask them to send you message from his heatware account.
But, once again, someone can also point a gun at me and force me to lie.
So if you are that picky, no system is safe.
Sure, extreme cases always break anything. Rubber-hose cryptography and the like. But the point of this shit is to raise the bar for scammers and have fewer people to trust, and GPG does a good job at that. |
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loan fully repaid. thanks gigavps. much appreciated!
Confirmed! Thanks Immuzikation. Witnessed. Fourthed. |
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Confirming Mt. Gox Code received!
Witnessed. Seconded. Thirded. Also, why the fuck is this thread getting so long when the whole thing could've been done privately and securely with a couple of GPG signatures? |
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So far, 1671 people have manage to sign up for the rating system on #bitcoin-otc. Looks like it's doable. I have no problem learning how to use it, but would others do too is the question.
That sounds kind of arrogant. So you're saying YOU could do it, but others are too stupid, so why even bother? Good luck finding customers with that attitude. No, that's not what I said. My opinion is that the system is just way too complex for a simple rating system. I can bet you, out of every 1000 people you ask randomly, nobody even know what the heck is gpg identity. You also proved it yourself. "so far, 1671 people have manage to sign up". WOW, a full 1671 people out of a global internet user base of billions. Like I said, nothing is wrong with the system, I am just saying it is too complex for 99.99% of the population. Uh, we're comparing it against the bitcoin population, not the global internet one. A lot more than 1671 people actually use GPG in the broader tech world. 1671 is bitcoin-otc users, which considering that the IRC channel only contains around 300 people at any given time, isn't all that bad. The reason for gpg is simply to be able to verify that you are indeed who you say you are. There are other ways of doing this, but they usually involve a trusted third party to broker the transaction so that you can associate the counterparty in your transaction to their reputation. On IRC, if some dude pops up claiming to be copumpkin and pointing at his (my) WOT reputation online, it could easily just be some web IRC user who browsed the WOT listing and picked someone with decent ratings. They could then proceed to scam people under my name, thereby not only scamming the users but destroying my reputation. We therefore require people to prove, using GPG, that they are indeed who they say they are. Unfortunately, this scheme still currently revolves around a trusted third party (nanotube and his bot gribble), but the system doesn't need to, in theory. I'd posit that a decentralized cryptographic system like GPG is the "natural" way to add optional identity and reputation to a decentralized and anonymous currency like bitcoin. And as another poster has already pointed out, all your arguments against GPG could easily be thrown at bitcoin too. |
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Hi Pirateat40, This thread was just too big. So, I asked my question in a new thread. Besides, First Pirate bank is just too big now - it surely deserves multiple threads. Will you please look at this question and respond there? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58542.0I had also sent you a private message earlier asking how to start. I'm still interested, of course, but was hoping you could address these questions, that I'm sure many members of the community must wonder about as well. Thanks, If you think this is risky... try out bitscalper... its a few percent a day... Yeah, they don't even have a reputation on the line. Pirateat40 has built a solid reputation and risks losing it if shit goes bad, but bitscalper is just a website that exists, with no known personalities behind it, as far as I know I'm pretty risk-tolerant, but even I'm not touching that thing  |
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--
2) Banks want all sorts of documentation. "Why do you want the money?", "How are you going to use the money?", "How are you going to secure the money?" Generally speaking, banks don't want to loan you the money unless you don't need the money. Could you imagine the looks the bank would give if he said he wanted to borrow $10k or whatever to use to make a bitcoin business? It'd be the same question your wife/girlfriend/significant other asks you.. "Why are you playing with that silly play money?" Imsaguy, fair enough. But, you'd figure someone who seems to deal in buttloads of cold hard cash would have "friends" who would be very happy to loan him $20k for a "giant 50%" yearly interest. A 50% that is much cheaper than the 4000% currently being offered. A 50% that is much cheaper even if he ignores his fluctuating needs for storage space and doesn't pay back for 5 years. So, are we saying that the need to avoid btcusd price fluctuation explain the remaining difference, the difference of 3950%? In-person "friends" of that sort who are willing to lend you those quantities of under-the-table cash with no obvious collateral typically demand interest rates in the ballpark of what pirateat40 is offering, and furthermore start forcibly taking your family and limbs as "collateral" if anything goes wrong. Perhaps he could get better interest from that sort of person, but as much as I joke about having thugs with baseball bats, this sort of business is a lot more pleasant for a borrower. |
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If he reveals too much, he reveals the secret sauce and then other could clone his business and cut into his profits.
Exactly. We aren't investors here, and he owes us no explanations of what he's doing to generate his high profits. If you don't like that, you can easily not lend to him, or withdraw your money if you're an existing lender. Perhaps pirateat40 will have a better answer than that, but in his original thread he already stated that he didn't want to answer questions about his arrangement, so I'm not sure how you expect a new thread asking questions again to change that, unless you just didn't read the original. |
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is there anyone interested on something like this ?
zhoutong can/want to provide a position API for a external service like this ?
Why not just buy options on http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/options.php if you're vulnerable to big swings in one direction or the other? The only issue I can see with it is that mircea's site operates on a daily average, which might not get you compensated for extreme swings that will nonetheless cause forced liquidations. |
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And that response is the one I am looking for. Does everyone here know him? Is everyone just hopping on the trust train because one guy trusts him? That's why I'm asking. To find out.
I don't know about all his lenders, but a significant number of us know him from the #bitcoin-otc IRC channel, where he's active and friendly and also happens to be a channel operator. I guess the quality of his character doesn't say much about his solvency, but it seems a bit much to ask for someone's financial history here. What we do know is that he's put a lot of time and effort into bitcoin-related work and has two thriving businesses (the other being the new GPUMAX), so either it would go down as the biggest scam in our history, or he's just heavily invested in bitcoin and the community I obviously think that it's most likely the latter. |
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Payment will be made or I'm sending the fleet! Arr, ye vessels may be sturdy, but methinks a landlocked land like Slovakia would shiver ye timbers too much even for the most blood-thirsty cap'n |
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Please anyone willing to pay up to 35% of interests.
I'll do it. PM me an address to send to |
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Sounds like good collateral Oh, you have no idea |
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