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4221  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: June 10, 2012, 05:06:39 AM
And yet the python 2.7 and python 2.6 versions still both work fine on python 2.6 (except that installing the python 2.7 version requires --force-depends, obviously). Have you got around to seeing if it's possible to statically link the python interpreter? It doesn't look like these problems are going to go away as long as dynamic linking is involved.
4222  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Best practical uses for bitcoin? on: June 10, 2012, 02:38:02 AM
Vandroiy, I'm sorry to nitpick but I wouldn't label Bitcoin fair. It's actually highly unfair to those who do not have cheap electricity, or who don't have a high end mining hardware, or to those who don't know how to secure the use of the Satoshi client being forced to use and pay fees of ewallets, or to those who were late to hear about it and were forced to pay higher exchange rates for a lower amount, ect.

I think the word that's better suited for what I assume you meant to convey is honest. Bitcoin is truly honest in the sense that it's piratically impossible to counterfeit or doublespend or chargeback or break any of the other rules governing it no matter who you are.

But people who can't produce or secure bitcoins for themselves can buy them and pay for their storage for a fair price from those who can. Is it highly unfair that I have to buy my shoes from someone else because I don't have the tools or experience to make my own? Is it highly unfair that I charge people money to fix their computers when they don't know how to do it themselves? People producing things that other people can't and needing things they can't produce on their own is the very reason trade exists, and money is the thing that makes fair trade possible. And Bitcoin is the fairest form of money in this sense.

It is also not unfair that late adopters pay a higher exchange rate, since early adopters are taking a much greater risk with their money, because nobody really knows for sure whether Bitcoin will succeed. Late adopters pay extra for the assurance that their money isn't likely to just vanish if Bitcoin suddenly fails for some unforeseen reason, and there's nothing unfair about that. This is how all investments work.
4223  Other / Off-topic / Re: I think I have a severe case of Bitcoinitis - help! on: June 09, 2012, 03:10:09 AM
- Believe real world women should be impressed that you are able to make money "on the dark web"
What is this "real world woman" to which you refer?

According to legend, there exists a world outside the Internet, in which women are real and not actually men. Some claim to have visited this strange land, and they tell fantastic stories of their travels, though few believe them without photographic evidence.
4224  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie loans! no trust needed on: June 08, 2012, 10:52:42 PM
That's an annual interest rate of 3650 percent! Shocked Who the Hell do you think's going to accept such a loan? Who do expect to ever be able to pay it back?!?
4225  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitmuggles on: June 08, 2012, 11:30:22 AM
Or shorter: Biggles (Bitmuggles) 
 (my favorite  Cheesy )
All these Biggles still clutching to their Dollars / Euros ...

It's no good, Algy! We're going to crash! We've got to bail out!
4226  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How to track stolen/tainted Bitcoin? on: June 08, 2012, 06:36:30 AM
It would help prevent distribution of stolen coins.
Explain how you would go about doing this in a way that doesn't harm innocent users. Or at least harms innocent users less than the criminals.

Eventually, they would be untainted.
Explain how.
4227  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Warning Against Using Taint on: June 08, 2012, 02:53:28 AM
Do you mean that the money in my wallet that is tainted is somehow "taken" from me because I can't use it to buy something from... someone... somewhere who sees the taint?  There are plenty of other people to transact with, no?  Remember, it's a personal blacklist.  Most of the people on this thread here have insinuated that they would ignore any taint.
The fundamental purpose of money is to give you a means of trading with other people without having to worry about whether you happen to have what they want, because everyone wants money equally. If some people don't want money under certain circumstances, the whole system breaks down. Though, as a general rule, refusing to accept money which is accepted by your competitors is pretty damn stupid, regardless of whether it's technically viable.

This reminds me of an assumption I made while I was growing up without realizing it, which is a really stupid assumption:  That prices should be the same for everyone.  That's just BS.  If I like you, you'll get a better price.  If I don't like anybody, then my price to all of them will be higher, and I won't get to trade much.  The same thing goes for this taint idea.
That prices should be the same for everyone is not an assumption, it's a basic economic fact stemming from the fungibility of money: If everyone's dollars are equal, then everyone's prices should be equal. To suggest that prices should not be equal for everyone is to suggest that everyone's dollars are not equal, which is not only absurd, it's downright stupid if you are in a competitive business. (Note that things like loyalty discounts are no exception to this rule, since the customer to whom the discount applies is providing a service (namely, their continued patronage) to the store which is of equal value (in the store management's opinion) to the discount received.)

The biggest problem I see is lack of original judgment.  Too many people just do what they're told - they're sheeple.  Because of that, the mere suggestion that address XYZ belongs to a thief can ruin the owner of that address.  But I don't think that would happen much, because the average BTC user is a bit brighter than that, and the "mere suggestion" will get the suggester a large load of chastisement for jumping to conclusions.  Or maybe I'm wrong.  Again, it's a faith in the community that perhaps I have too much of, at least as pertains to the exposure of transactions from alleged thieves.
I admire your optimism, but unfortunately assuming that people aren't idiots always ends badly.
4228  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Backup doesn't work on: June 07, 2012, 08:03:06 PM
Most likely, you are experiencing an error that has nothing to do with your wallet.dat file. Restoring your wallet from a backup won't fix anything because there was nothing wrong with your wallet.dat file in the first place. Your bitcoins are probably still safe, you just can't access them. What exactly is the problem you are having? Are you getting any sort of error message or is it just showing a balance of 0 BTC?
4229  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Address and Transaction doesn't show up on some sites on: June 07, 2012, 07:13:41 PM
Because Block Explorer is currently having problems and their database is out of date, as you can clearly see by looking at the "latest blocks" on their home page (note that the latest block Block Explorer has is from nearly 5 days ago).
4230  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Warning Against Using Taint on: June 07, 2012, 08:11:01 AM
Why do you think you are allowed to use force to prevent me from implementing some scheme on my own client?
Because you can't control who sends you coins. If somebody sends you tainted coins, what are you going to do about it? You can't send them back, since the address they came from may not be under the sender's control (eg, e-wallets), and you can't keep them but refuse to accept them as payment. Can you imagine if that happened with cash? "Sorry, we can't accept this $100 note as payment, you'll have to give us another one. No, you can't have this one back; no, it's not counterfeit, we just think it might have been involved in some form of criminal activity at some point in the past." You'd have some use of force directed at your face if you tried that in real life.

You don't have to accept coins that have been obtained dishonestly, either. That would be a personal choice. Because bad actors could respond, to honest traders who only making transactions with other honest people, with violence does not invalidate the idea.
The problem is that the people who respond with violence are not bad actors, they are honest people who have had their money taken without compensation based on nothing more than the belief that the money might have been involved in an illegal transaction at some point in its history. Remember, YOU CANNOT CONTROL WHO SENDS YOU BITCOINS! If an honest person happens to receive "tainted" bitcoins from someone else, there is absolutely nothing that they or anyone else can do about it, and any attempt to do something about it will simply be punishing innocent users for other people's actions.

Here's another experiment you can try: Open a store and keep a drug kit behind the counter. Drug test every note a customer pays you with, and if the result is positive, refuse to accept the money but don't give it back. See how long you can last without either getting punched in the face or having the cops called on you. I guarantee you'll be out of business one way or another before the day is out.

I encourage the sympathetic readers of this post to stop thinking about bitcoin as "cash" and start thinking in terms of a distributed file system containing a perfect accounting ledger. The idea is much more sophisticated than "cash" and will lead one day to a system that will allow us to keep track of our debts to each other in terms of personal economic value.
So, everyone's bitcoins will have a different value to everyone elses? How exactly are you supposed to set prices with such a scheme? "This product costs 10 BTC, but only 8 BTC if the coins come from a verified Mt Gox account, with a 50% surcharge if the coins ever touched SR, plus 10% if they came from a coin mixing service... etc" Is that pretty much how it's supposed to work? And if so, how does that make any sense? That would cause problems if you tried it in real life, too.

What you're asking is like asking how Mt. Gox can give you 5 USD/BTC one day and 6 USD/BTC the next day. Why are exchange rates set on an open market with bids and asks any different than devaluing dishonest money? If someone you want to trade with wants to charge you more because you have dishonest money, you don't have to trade with them. I'd encourage you to find someone to trade with that will give you the full value you believe your BTC is worth.
No, it's not like that at all, and I'm not sure why you even think that. They are different because the exchange rate assumes that bitcoins (and dollars, for that matter) are fungible, meaning that one bitcoin (or dollar) is just as good as any nother. This is because when you make an offer to buy bitcoins on an exchange, you have absolutely no way of knowing who, out of thousands of other traders, will actually be providing your bitcoins, and so you have no way of knowing whether you'll end up with good bitcoins or "tainted" ones. As I have already pointed out, setting prices will be impossible if "tainted" bitcoins are valued differently from "clean" bitcoins.
4231  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Warning Against Using Taint on: June 06, 2012, 08:00:30 PM
Why do you think you are allowed to use force to prevent me from implementing some scheme on my own client?
Because you can't control who sends you coins. If somebody sends you tainted coins, what are you going to do about it? You can't send them back, since the address they came from may not be under the sender's control (eg, e-wallets), and you can't keep them but refuse to accept them as payment. Can you imagine if that happened with cash? "Sorry, we can't accept this $100 note as payment, you'll have to give us another one. No, you can't have this one back; no, it's not counterfeit, we just think it might have been involved in some form of criminal activity at some point in the past." You'd have some use of force directed at your face if you tried that in real life.

I encourage the sympathetic readers of this post to stop thinking about bitcoin as "cash" and start thinking in terms of a distributed file system containing a perfect accounting ledger. The idea is much more sophisticated than "cash" and will lead one day to a system that will allow us to keep track of our debts to each other in terms of personal economic value.
So, everyone's bitcoins will have a different value to everyone elses? How exactly are you supposed to set prices with such a scheme? "This product costs 10 BTC, but only 8 BTC if the coins come from a verified Mt Gox account, with a 50% surcharge if the coins ever touched SR, plus 10% if they came from a coin mixing service... etc" Is that pretty much how it's supposed to work? And if so, how does that make any sense? That would cause problems if you tried it in real life, too.
4232  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Warning Against Using Taint on: June 06, 2012, 11:53:23 AM
You dont actually own your own house. Have you ever tried not paying local council rates ?

Have you ever tried not paying federal taxes? By that logic, you don't actually "own" anything. But I (like most people) define "ownership" to mean "right of property", regardless of whether such rights can be revoked at the whim of the government.
4233  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Warning Against Using Taint on: June 06, 2012, 10:49:59 AM
This thread actually reminded me of an obscure bit of trivia I once learnt. Namely: ordinary cash (to the best of my knowledge) is not actually 'owned' by the person/s holding it. The actual bits of paper are owned by the government (or the reserve bank that issued them. It probably varies from country to country -- not sure).

This is analogous to the Bitcoin situation whereby nobody actually 'owns' any of the coins on the block-chain. As proof, anyone can download ALL of them if they want. Their usage is merely governed by the rules according to which coins are transacted using the open-source Bitcoin protocol. Therefore, the casual, social concept of ownership is not even part of Bitcoin, and everyone who bought into the idea should understand that and accept it instead of trying to change it into a different system.

No, it's completely different. The blockchain is more like a title deed, giving property rights to certain individuals, who can sign over all or part of their ownership to anyone else in a publicly witnessed manner. While it is true that nobody "owns" the blockchain, the rights that the blockchain provides (namely, the right to spend one's own bitcoins) are genuine property rights, and to suggest otherwise makes about as sense as suggesting that the deed to your house is worthless because you don't really own the piece of paper it's printed on.
4234  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitbid hasn't been compromised, has it? on: June 06, 2012, 09:16:51 AM
I don't know anything about BitBid, but I'm pretty sure that ads for Viagra, Cailis, et al, (covering 95% of the home page Shocked) is not normal, and highly suspicious even if it is. Does anyone else know what's going on here?

Block Explorer is currently lagging behind a few hundred blocks for some reason, and this is completely unrelated to any issues with BitBid. The information in Bitcoin-Qt is almost certainly correct (and the fact that BitBid has approved your membership and you have a balance with them indicates that nothing went wrong with your transaction).
4235  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin error on: June 04, 2012, 04:47:20 AM
Your blockchain file got corrupted. Delete blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat from C:\Users\leigh\Appdata\Roaming\Bitcoin and restart Bitcoin and it will re-download the blockchain. Don't worry, your bitcoins are safe as long as you don't delete wallet.dat (which you might want to back up while you're at it).
4236  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduce yourself :) on: June 04, 2012, 03:40:46 AM
Hi new here and having nothing but problems with bitcoin. Hopefully it sorts itself out
 Huh

What problems are you having, exactly?
4237  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoins will never exceed 21 million, except via Fractional-reserve Bankin !!! on: June 04, 2012, 12:24:20 AM
Hi I appreciate further clarifying.

I see so Bitcoin is more like a competing currency rather than new money model.

So bitcoin creators want to rely eventually on existing banks to lend Bitcoin as basically a new currency ?

I thought bitcoin was deeper than just another currency using the existing model ? Maybe I am missing key advantages of bitcoin over existing currency creation method , but I am still learning. It is little disappointing if Bitcoin is just another currency as then why just not use existing ones ?
While Bitcoin is in many ways just another currency, it differs from fiat money in than no government (or anyone else) can decide to issue more of it, and there is only so much of it that can ever exist. In this respect it is more like commodity money, but unlike commodity money, the number of bitcoins that will ever exist and the rate at which they will be distributed is known in advance, and as a result its value is not subject to supply shocks. These are features which no form of money has ever had before.

Quote From this
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y so doing, they have helped Bitcoin become what it is now and what it will be in the future (hopefully, a ubiquitous decentralized digital currency). It is only fair they will reap the benefits of their successful investment.
How is exactly Bitcoin "decentralized" ? You speak of existing Banks creating Bitcoin out of no where similarly to the existing model. That would mean centralized Bitcoin creation at selected existing  Banks.
No. Bitcoins cannot be created by banks (or anyone) out of thin air. When a bank (or anyone else) loans bitcoins to other people, it must already own these bitcoins. What happens is Alice deposits some bitcoins in her bank account, then the bank loans those same bitcoins out to Carol figuring that Carol will pay them back before Alice tries to withdraw her bitcoins. This is basically how fraction reserve banking works already, except in this case if Alice tries to withdraw her money and the bank doesn't have it, there is no way for the government to bail them out, and the bank is instantly bankrupt. Alice will probably be able to eventually get her money from Carol, but whether she does or not, nobody will ever be using that bank ever again. So it is most unlikely that banks will act as irresponsibly with bitcoins as they do with fiat money.

Also seems like in the Bitcoin model the creators of Bitcoin or existing Banks will act the equivalent of  "central banks" as individuals will not be able to do that eventually... except for the existing "developing" state with the lottery.

Futher from ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#How_are_new_Bitcoins_created.3F ) seems like at the moment bitcoin is being created through a "lottery" and those having most PCs participating are most likely to have more coins. However this "lottery"  is a temporary mechanism as the main goal is to get existing Banks( or new specialized Bitcoin Bank ) issue these coins similarly to existing currencies ? Yes / No ?
No. Bitcoin mining is not a "lottery", it is actually more like a business. What miners are really doing is verifying transactions and securing the Bitcoin network, and they receive a payment for providing this service. The payment currently consists of "new" coins, however there is only a limited amount of coins that can be created this way, which is why miners also receive transaction fees. Eventually, when the "new" coins run out, the whole network will be supported entirely by transaction fees (the way it should be) and the economy will be a totally closed system (again, the way it should be). The whole "new coins" business is just a way to bootstrap the economy by distributing the initial coins to the people who contribute the most resources to the network, which is the fairest way of doing it.

If banks will create Bitcoins out of nowhere do you plan for  an option to increase the Bitcoin supply beyond 21 million in the future when banks have adopted Bticoin and now need more Bitcoins to meet demand for new coins, similarly to the existing money model ? Yes ?
No. If large-scale adoption by banks increases the demand for bitcoins, no new bitcoins will or even can be created to meet the demand. Instead, the value of individual bitcoins will increase, exactly the same as if it were a scarce commodity like gold.
4238  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Typical way of using/reusing addresses in a wallet on: June 03, 2012, 11:36:04 PM
I reuse addresses only when receiving multiple payments from the same person for the same reason. You should create new addresses for payments from different people or from the same person but for different reasons, because otherwise it just becomes too difficult to keep track of who's paying you for what.
4239  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A few questions about addresses on: June 03, 2012, 10:44:20 AM
Thanks sipa for this thorough answer.

Incidentally, I have read somewhere that there are approximately the same number of bitcoin addresses as there are atoms on earth.
Did anyone check that ?

I guess it depends on your definition of "approximately". There are actually about 70 times as many atoms in the Earth as there are bitcoin addresses:

Number of bitcoin addresses (2^160): 1.462 quindecillion
Number of atoms in the Earth (according to Wolfram Alpha): 100 quindecillion
4240  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoins will never exceed 21 million, except via Fractional-reserve Bankin !!! on: June 03, 2012, 01:19:02 AM
Bitcoin is not an alternative to private banking, it is an alternative to fiat money. Private banks and fractional reserve banking will still exist with Bitcoin - in fact, existing private banks could start accepting Bitcoin deposits and making Bitcoin loans right now if they wanted to. The just don't want to because there's no government to bail them out at the taxpayer's expense if things go wrong. For this reason, banks and other institutions dealing with Bitcoin will be far less likely to take unnecessary risks with other people's money, and that's a good thing.
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