With all the crap surrounding this pool lately and recent downtime issues Im moving my workers elsewhere. Every pool gets DoS'd... |
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Next time try calling me. That's generally the main delay when things go down-- waiting for someone to wake me up.
One would think that with prayers on headers, divine intervention was in order. Oh well. Too bad there are no prayers in headers. |
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No response hmm, so it's true?  No response because the forum has apparently stopped sending post notification emails. Add on top of that the hours of downtime from yesterday, Next time try calling me. That's generally the main delay when things go down-- waiting for someone to wake me up. combined with the fact that there is absolutely no announcement, no justification, no mention, not here nor anywhere else. Except on IRC, which is the main venue for this kind of (ie, real-time event) thing... with it's "world class uptime record" It was actually quite good up till that downtime. This morning, thankfully, people called me quicker, and I was able to notice that we're being DoS'd. As for the payout system itself, it's a well-documented, publicly explained, and known to have shortcomings as it is right now. As for the trolls, I'm ignoring them. |
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However, the sneaky including it in supposedly random data is underhanded and deplorable. The fact is that the coinbase was designed so that (small) text could be embedded in it, and in fact the first coinbase ever (in the "Genesis" block) contains libertarian propaganda. Nor was it ever "sneaky", or in any way secret-- besides the obviousness of everyone having a copy, nobody trollish enough to actually have a problem with it would have probably ever noticed it if I didn't make it known (in public IRC channels, obviously long before this thread was posted). |
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In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to. Maybe "I'm eating a big juicy hamburger" would offend some vegetarian miner somewhere, but chances are that person gets offended by a lot of things in life and perhaps even seeks out things to be 'offended' about. As long as there is nothing illegal or really nasty (e.g. advocating hatred/violence against some group of people) then I could give a rat's ass what's in there.
http://pident.artefact2.com/block/000000000000052f8e747189e44e60212976b830f49cf6aedd3feec50571a566 |
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How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?! That one is actual spam, and can never be deleted/pruned. (as opposed to my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately) OP is just saying that LukeJr must tell miners that Eligius put prayers in the blockchain
So...nothing to do with that No, OP is just trolling. Miners don't do anything with the prayers. As one person put it, this is like complaining that a burger restaurant prints Bible verses on its sandwich wrappers. |
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If anyone really wants to make a viable replacement for Bitcoin, ping me. I'm not interested in doing it myself, but I can provide multiple improvement ideas, and possibly some brainstorming.
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The real market value is over $30. Get some cheap while you can.
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Ok, this is really ugly, so hopefully JSON-RPC dies soon... noncerange is provided to the miner in the usual big endian format: 100000001fffffff for all nonces from 0x10000000 to 0x1fffffff; this part is sane at least  However, since SHA256 processes in big-endian integers, while the rest of our block data is given in little-endian, this part gets hairy: the nonce will always come out in the opposite endian as the rest of the data. Since solutions are given as 32-bit big endian chunks, this means that in the solution, your nonce will be written as little endian. So for our example, dddddd1d is acceptable, and 1ddddddd is not. On the bright side, this means you can do a simple iterative for loop from <nonce-start> to <nonce-end> and just plug the value into the nonce index in the SHA256 integer data regardless of what endian your platform is. |
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Indeed... tin foil hat time... what did we miss? You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist? Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet. Luke-Jr, Please tread very carefully with this one... Security thru obscurity is NO security at all.... if there is no defense against this i sure hope the whole bitcoin dev teams knows about this and are working on it as we speak... can you comment on that? Its really not good form to keep these things private. Who does it affect? Users? Miners? Pool Operators? Everyone? Some disclosure needs to be done so that people can protect themselves depending on what type of vulnerability we are talking about. I really dont think this should be kept completely quiet. SOME information needs to be disclosed! It only potentially interferes with less competent computer users from using Bitcoin. There are no security implications for actual usage. |
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Hmm. What happened here?
Indeed... tin foil hat time... what did we miss? You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist? Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin? He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet. |
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Jesus is famous for being the issuer of fiat fish and fiat bread, so...
Fiat means by force of law, so no. |
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Edit: Removed unsolvable exploit.
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2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil. Now someone's gone and made a claim. The onus of proof is upon you for both prayers being objectively good and pornography being objectively evil. Only if I'm trying to convince you. Perhaps the words 'good' and 'evil' have a special meaning in the christian faith which makes these statements provable but then you suffer from a self-reference which renders your point moot.
If there is no objective truth about the value of prayers or pornography then I think that subjective offensiveness is very much worth considering. "Good" is defined as supportive of God's Will, and "evil" is defined as opposed to God's will. No modern or atheistic redefinitions have any practical value. But no, this does not involve a self-reference, because Christianity is itself objective truth, no matter who believes or denies it. If you are trying to open my mind to the idea that logic itself is not absolute then I'm afraid I'm a lost cause. My belief in logic is probably as strong as your belief in christianity. Logic is what led me to Catholicism, but admittedly not a replacement for its (logic's) Creator. If you reply to this with a solid logical argument then I'd love to continue this discussion but otherwise I think we'll simply have to go our separate ways. Sorry, I generally don't try to convince people. You have created the requirement of logical proof for yourself, so you are the one responsible for resolving it. If you sincerely seek the truth regardless of your own biases, I'm sure you'll figure it out. If you have any questions about the conclusions I have come to, I'd be glad to answer them to the best of my ability (though this forum is not the proper place for that). |
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Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, ... Trying my level best not to be biased, I believe christian writings and regular pornography should be treated on par with one another in this reguard. Both information classes are very well-know, loved by many, and highly offensive to many others. Is there some significant logical distinction I'm missing? Two unrelated distinctions: 1. The prayers are part of the coinbase, which was designed for text messages, and can be instantly purged from the block chain if necessary. Real spam is a corrupt transaction, not by design, and can never be purged from the block chain. 2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil. |
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SMPPS also never pays out more than the pool has. The reward system isn't the delay-- the payout system is. Generating all payouts means only 50 BTC can be paid at once, even if there's 51 BTC passing the minimum payout at once.
OK, I'd like to clarify my understanding of this a little bit. Let's assume that we have a fresh start, with everyone having zero balances. We find one block, so the total of everyone's pending balance is 50 BTC. Out of this 50 BTC, let's say 40 BTC is above the payout threshold, so they will be included in the next block. I assume the remaining 10 BTC goes into the pool buffer. Now 60 BTC is owed. But only 50 BTC can be paid out every block. I assume with SMPPS a few short rounds can clear out the pending payouts since the pool will owe less on those rounds than it earns. With PPLNS, I don't see how the pending payments can ever go down - since at every round the pool makes 50 BTC, owes 50 BTC, and pays out less than 50 BTC. This would mean that payouts keep getting delayed more and more? Hmm, I think I understood it while typing this out. After some point, all 50 BTC earned in a block will be paid out because it meets the payout threshold. But the pool buffer that you've built up to this point is basically yours to keep, since it can never be withdrawn from anyway. Do I understand this right? If there's >= 50 BTC ready for payout, it won't payout less. The only way it can be > 50 BTC is if someone is earning less than the minimum payout, which means that in between his payouts, there's extra space in the 50 BTC for other payouts. So it all evens out much faster/easier. |
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if the pool switched to PPLNS, would that mean that it would pay out rewards as they are earned? in other words, there would be no delay?
The minimum balance functionality (you don't get paid until your balance is > 200 TBC) would still cause payout delays. For example, if when a block is found suddenly a lot of old accounts are now above the balance, you can have more than 50 BTC due for payment. But it will typically be a shorter delay than is seen after long blocks with SMPPS. With SMPPS, we occasionally see delays of as much as 7-8 blocks. I shouldn't get that bad with PPLNS. I don't understand how this can happen with PPLNS. Since no block is ever paid out more than 50 BTC, every old account with a pending balance technically already has the required BTC in the pool fund, it's just not paid out yet. The pool should never owe more than it has on hand. SMPPS also never pays out more than the pool has. The reward system isn't the delay-- the payout system is. Generating all payouts means only 50 BTC can be paid at once, even if there's 51 BTC passing the minimum payout at once. |
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Jesus never said anything about forcing the issue. Neither did I. |
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I think it deserves a place somewhere on the forum, so I've restored it to off-topic.
FUD does? If anything, if there's a problem of only some FUD being removed, I'd think the solution would be to remove more FUD, not to restore the FUD that was removed. Or at least make a forum for moving FUD to (which is not merely "off-topic") |
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