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4341  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 18, 2011, 07:37:58 PM
Ok, userstats should be back in the API now.
4342  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 18, 2011, 02:45:30 PM
I responded in your thread. My point still stands and is still valid unless there is something new and interesting that you've come up with that no one else has to reduce latency.
4343  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [101 GH/s] ABCPool.co - The NEW 0% fee PPS pool; with stales as bonus! on: August 18, 2011, 02:43:01 PM
There are definitely pools that do this. Actually, *all* non-PPS pools that purport to be paying for stale shares, actually don't. I do understand the confusion, since it also took Us some time before I realized that pay-for-stales claims can not ever lead to extra earnings at non-PPS pools.

Slush's pool for example has no LP, so it can not possibly notify its workers of a new block. Practically this means those workers do stale work ~3% of the time, although Slush accepts most of these stale shares as valid shares. They therefore report a 0.3% stale rate. Total block reward will be the same 50 BTC in the end, and since everyone has approx. 3% extra shares, payout per user is still the same. Only everyone thinks they get payed for stales.

On the other hand, any PPS pool would shoot itself in the foot if it was reporting a lower stale share amount than was actually the case: It would mean they now also have to pay the promised per share amount for those 'fake valids', whereas normally those would be worthless. The aforementioned dilution effect does not exist at PPS pools, since there is no 50 BTC block reward to be distributed (just the pay per share).

For ABCPool, this goes even further: since we pay as much for stale shares as we do for valid shares, your earnings would be exactly the same if we report 0% stales, 0.5% stales or 100% stales.

For more info, see http://www.abcpool.co/stale-shares.php.

NB: SMPPS, ESMPPS, or other PPS-like reward methods are just as vulnerable to this issue as Prop or PPLNS pools. Even Solo mining has a stale rate, which is reflected in the number of orphan blocks found over time.

NB2: The 'secret' behind real low stale rates is having a highly connected bitcoind running so you are quickly notified of new blocks, wherever they may come from.

After I wrote that a bit later I realized it might have sounded accusatory or advasarial and I apologize for that.  It was not my intent, but by that time it was already out there and editing it would have been pointless.  However, the contention in the message still stands and I'm not seeing where there's a rebuttal in so far as providing anything to refute the fact that you simply aren't reporting the stale/invalid shares even though they exist. 

I said as much that it's great that you are paying for stales and being a PPS pool, it's a definite advantage - I have absolutely no argument with that.  But whether or not you report it is immaterial to the fact that you are paying for stales - you pay for them either way, so it is to your advantage to NOT report them to give the illusion that you have a better (lesser) reject rate than other pools. 

I'm not sure you understand how LP works when talking about stales in relation to LP.  It's completely immaterial how connected your bitcoind is or how quickly your bitcoind gets notified of a new block - your bitcoind and pushpool (if you are using pushpool or something else, it doesn't really matter) are a little microcosm of the larger network.  All that matters for LP and stales is when pushpoold is notified of a block change, the LP is pushed out and the workers receive new shares for the block bitcoind is currently on.  The Bitcoind -> Work Distribution Server interaction are all that matters.  Bitcoind is going to be doling out the getworks to your getwork server based on what it thinks is the current block.  Your bitcoind could be 10 blocks behind and that will not have an effect on your stale count because your getwork server is serving up what bitcoind thinks is the latest block and submitting it back, which bitcoind tests against what it thinks is the current block.  If your bitcoind is behind and you find a hash that fits, it will then submit it to the network and get an orphaned block because it was behind.

So again, I still content that you are either not reporting the actual number of stales or you've found some magical new method to a) reduce latency between your getwork server and bitcoind by a factor of two or three and more importantly b) found a really magical method to notify all miners of new work with less latency by several orders of magnitude.

Since you have no control of the links between your getwork server and the miners, and you have no control over the miners and their systems, it would really be a magical method to reduce your stale shares beyond possibly maybe 2% maximum at a theoretical limit.  If you gain control over those system, then yes you could reduce that further, but barring controlling the entire system, with the current GPU miners out there, you simply can't reduce it beyond that threshold because of built in problems with the protocol in general.

4344  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 18, 2011, 03:26:44 AM
I apologize for the downtime.  I noticed a problem with the MySQL database and in the process of diagnosing it, I decided to reboot the server which turned out to be a bad idea.

After the server came back up, I continued diagnosing the problem and identified two separate issues causing slow queries on the DB.  I've completely fixed one I believe, the other one is related to the user stats in the API.

I need to do some code rewriting for that, as such, worker stats in the API (yeah, the same thing I just fixed earlier today, which is why the problem just showed up) are disabled until I get it rewritten.  Possibly tonight, but more likely tomorrow.

I apologize for the inconvenience... I guess the user stats hadn't been working since I made a change a few days ago and when I fixed the api to accommodate the change today the old method of calculating stats puts the new table under too big a strain.

I believe this is also the cause of the intermittent Can't connect to RPC errors some of you noticed as well, so this should eliminate that as well.  Three bugs fixed for the price of one!  Bonus... err wait..


4345  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 18, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
The pool is having a hardware issue.  It will be back up in about 30 - 45 minutes while I replace the failed part.
4346  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 11:51:44 PM
Indeed.  Well, the "rejects" you see in the terminal aren't really rejected in the literal since.  They are accepted and found to be invalid for one reason or another and reported as rejected.  It's fairly easy to turn that off and just report accepted for every share, regardless of its' true disposition in finding a block.
4347  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 11:42:54 PM
They modify their getwork server to report less rejects/stales.  There's no mystery there. I can do the same here if it'll make you feel better, though.  I can, in fact, using their methods, give you 0 rejects.

They have the same reject rate as here, they just don't report it to you, so you will never know if you are having a problem or not and therefore causing a detriment to the pool as a whole.  On an individual level, it's not a big deal, but when you start getting a lot of miners, and if everyone has absolutely no idea if there's a problem, it can add up to a significant drain on the pools true hashing power (vs reported hashing power).  Unless they've done some mathematical gymnastics with stat reporting, their true hashrate is 1.5 - 3.5% lower than their reported hash rate.  That means you are losing out on 1.5 - 3.5% of your potential income vs variance when you make a decision to mine at a given pool.  (That is not to say your overall income is materially affected, only your decision making ability to assess whether one pool is better than another.  Although, if enough people have unreported problems it will also affect your overall income as well.  But you'll never know unless people self report a lower than expected income.)

They bill this as a "feature," and in so far as they pay you on stale shares it is definitely a bonus, but in reality it's basically dishonest math when measured against the accepted standard.  I've not found anywhere that they confirm or deny that they report stats based on stale shares as well.


4348  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 02:35:13 PM
Sure, I will add all those things this week.
4349  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 02:04:40 PM
Found the bug... sorry about that.  It should be fixed now.
4350  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 01:50:01 PM
Are you putting your key after the = ?
4351  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 01:32:30 PM

Inaba, I realised that the JSON API is not returning the worker list. Can you take a look?

For which output?  What URL are you using?
4352  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 17, 2011, 01:21:17 PM
Other than fixing the memory leak a few days ago, I haven't made any changes to the getwork servers at the moment, other than to put in some code for the new pooling methods.
4353  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Could the Power of the Bitcoin Miner Network be Used Elsewhere? on: August 17, 2011, 02:42:22 AM
Password cracking comes to mind.  Google Whitepixel for more information on that.
4354  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 15, 2011, 01:07:00 AM
I'm not sure why that would be, it's kind of boggling.  Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
4355  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 14, 2011, 09:04:48 PM
I will provide details once I release it to the public.
4356  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 14, 2011, 02:23:50 PM
Yeah, once the Prop/PPS is working I will change the decay back to a shorter interval.
4357  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 14, 2011, 07:07:51 AM
The PPS code got in the way of block processing.  Got it all straightened out and it's good to go now.  Hopefully I can test out the Prop processing tomorrow and at least bring that up for a live test.

All stats should be updating properly now and block processing should be fine for Scoring from here on out.  Estimated rewards are going to read lower than usual this block due to the block processing time being off vs. the number of shares.  Actual rewards are calculated directly out of the shares submitted, so the estimated rewards for this round are going to be off by about 30% at least for most people (unless you're pool hopping, then they'll read high instead of low).

4358  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [FIXED] PHP RPC code spits out question marks and then dosent do anything. on: August 13, 2011, 10:43:41 PM
I thought Macs "Just Work?"

4359  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 13, 2011, 10:38:46 PM
PPS and Prop is on the way.  I hope to have some testing started this weekend (Sunday most likely) on the prop portion and then this week on PPS.
4360  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 13, 2011, 02:50:28 PM
Current decay rate will have your shares decaying to 0 in about 4 hours give or take about 30 minutes, possibly more variance if the hashrate changes significantly.
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