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4361  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 31, 2015, 10:11:08 PM
There is no forum for discussing both together, but the topic of alts is barely tolerated at all by the forum mods and operator; they certainly don't want this in the Bitcoin section, and never have.

Good luck to them when the most popular forum for crypto no longer begins with "bitcoin___".  Wink

But you should limit (or at least focus) the discussion there to the properties of Bitcoin itself.

It would be very unwise of me to handicap my research and discussion thus wasting time conforming to the priorities of those who think it is wise to put all their eggs in one basket.

They could just throw this thread in "Other" then at least it wouldn't be a failure of set logic.
4362  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 31, 2015, 09:28:19 PM
I see this very long thread just got moved from the Bitcoin Discussion forum to the Altcoin Discussion forum. Moving an established thread is very disruptive.

The moderators are really paranoid. This thread discusses how Bitcoin relatives to securities law. The mods have deprived the Bitcoin Discussion readers the information about Bitcoin's legality.

Any way no problem. More motivation.

More likely the reason they moved it is your prominent reference to "Which crypto-tokens" meaning you are discussing various coins, not just Bitcoin specifically.

Logic fail (maybe not yours unless you are agreeing with the logic of what you wrote). Bitcoin is a subset of crypto-tokens. Bitcoin is not an element of set altcoins.

A thread about the legality of Bitcoin specifically would probably stay there, or in the Legal subform. However, there are probably existing threads that cover this, so you might just reply to one of those and reduce duplication.

They did not move it to the Legal subforum. If had done that and that is the correct place to discuss legality of crypto, then that would be fine by me. But moving to altcoin discussion is not consistent with logic[1].

Your somewhat slanderous implication of a redundant thread in the Legal subforum requires a citation on your part, otherwise it can be taken as veiled slander.

I don't believe there is such a thread, as I googled this entire site (site:bitcointalk.org securities) before I started my thread.  Tongue


[1]If the mods have decided that threads that discuss both Bitcoin and all tokens, can't go in Bitcoin Discussion nor in Legal, then if they dump that into Altcoin Discussion, then they are hiding Bitcoin information from Bitcoin focused readers. Bitcoin is not an Altcoin. Since that is a logical quagmire they may have created by forming a conjunction of sets which is not universal, then they are in a dilemma. I suggest just move it to Legal (if they are really paranoid about what goes into Bitcoin Discussion), as legality is the most relevant theme of this thread, not the fact that it discusses all tokens as well as specifically discussing Bitcoin. I suppose one might take the stance from my conclusion of my interpretation that since altcoins may be more implicated legally then it is not very strongly information relevant to Bitcoin. I disagree because only the reader can interpret legality as IANAL. Also the lack of on-chain anonymity for Bitcoin was raised as a factor.


Edit:

This thread discusses the legality of all crypto-tokens (including and specifically Bitcoin is discussed) w.r.t. securities regulation (with a focus on USA law but some mentions of EU law).

How can we put discussion of Bitcoin into the Altcoin Discussion thread when Bitcoin is not an altcoin?

Even though all crypto-tokens are discussed, for as long as Bitcoin is also prominently discussed, then it can't fit into the Altcoin subset.

How do we unconflate a general legal discussion that affects Bitcoin and altcoins and which prominently mentions issues that are specific to Bitcoin?

Seems to me the thread must go in either Bitcoin Discussion or Legal.

I had made another thread in the altcoin discussion forum to reference this thread, to be more specific to altcoin readers and posters. This thread was moved from Bitcoin Discussion to Altcoin Discussion thus creates a duplicate thread in the Altcoin Discussion forum. And I was trying to be somewhat careful to keep the thread at Bitcoin Discussion more general and also with specific interpretations for Bitcoin.

It makes me look silly (as if I was trying to create multiple threads in the same forum but I didn't) with two threads on similar issue both in the Altcoin Discussion forum.
4363  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 31, 2015, 09:19:53 PM
I see this very long thread just got moved from the Bitcoin Discussion forum to the Altcoin Discussion forum. Moving an established thread is very disruptive.

The moderators are really paranoid. This thread discusses how Bitcoin relates to securities law. The mods have deprived the Bitcoin Discussion readers the information about Bitcoin's legality.

Any way no problem. More motivation.
4364  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug on: October 31, 2015, 09:04:36 PM
Again I argue these definitions are useful only until the crypto platform of the tokens becomes a significant ecosystem on the order of where Bitcoin is now, after which point I think it is futile for the government to go against the popular activity on the technicality (pretense) of protecting the investor. In my opinion, the main risk is to small Altcoin communities that die leaving huge losses for investors. Prominent people involved with such failed crypto platforms might find themselves in legal trouble.

I think as Bitcoin becomes bigger the "invest to get it" step will not be as needed because people will see benefits in getting paid for Bitcoin by services. For example I know a lot of coders doing freelance jobs for Bitcoin which allow them to get payments from anywhere in the world while also remaining anonymous and they trust a legit escrow more than paypal.

When this get bigger a real economy will flourish where people work for Bitcoin instead of having to buy it all the time. I know people who own 100% stacks of Bitcoin which are from jobs (and small extra of sig campaigns).

It might really help if all the coins are anonymous so that downstream graphs for coins issued (or sold) during the period where the coin was predominately an illegal, unregistered investment security can't be identified or traced with block chain analysis. So thus once the platform ecosystem has reached the stage where the SEC can't attack all the coins as being an illegal, unregistered investment securities, then it has lost the ability to attack any of the coins. Note this might not be a defense though for those who want to report their taxable capital gains.

Referring to the currency itself (i.e. even physical cash notes have this property):

anonymous ⊂ fungible
fungible ⇒ anonymous

Bitcoin has no built-in on-chain anonymity. I invented the best on-chain anonymity currently known to exist.
4365  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 31, 2015, 09:02:12 PM
Again I argue these definitions are useful only until the crypto platform of the tokens becomes a significant ecosystem on the order of where Bitcoin is now, after which point I think it is futile for the government to go against the popular activity on the technicality (pretense) of protecting the investor. In my opinion, the main risk is to small Altcoin communities that die leaving huge losses for investors. Prominent people involved with such failed crypto platforms might find themselves in legal trouble.

I think as Bitcoin becomes bigger the "invest to get it" step will not be as needed because people will see benefits in getting paid for Bitcoin by services. For example I know a lot of coders doing freelance jobs for Bitcoin which allow them to get payments from anywhere in the world while also remaining anonymous and they trust a legit escrow more than paypal.

When this get bigger a real economy will flourish where people work for Bitcoin instead of having to buy it all the time. I know people who own 100% stacks of Bitcoin which are from jobs (and small extra of sig campaigns).

It might really help if all the coins are anonymous so that downstream graphs for coins issued (or sold) during the period where the coin was predominately an illegal, unregistered investment security can't be identified or traced with block chain analysis. So thus once the platform ecosystem has reached the stage where the SEC can't attack all the coins as being an illegal, unregistered investment securities, then it has lost the ability to attack any of the coins. Note this might not be a defense though for those who want to report their taxable capital gains.

Referring to the currency itself (i.e. even physical cash notes have this property):

anonymous ⊂ fungible
fungible ⇒ anonymous

Bitcoin has no built-in on-chain anonymity. I invented the best on-chain anonymity currently known to exist.
4366  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: DASH goons spamming the Altcoin section on: October 31, 2015, 08:41:55 PM
And you figured the best way to reduce spam is to start one more thread?  Huh  Roll Eyes


Yes i'm calling attention to the fact that there are several Dash spam threads opened recently as the price began to tumble.

People convince themselves that they are doing something worthwhile, which usually tied up into some sort of addiction, boredom, lack of self-discipline, groupthink emotional blanket, vested interest, etc.. Forums posting is quite addictive because there is an instant dopamine fix reward and it requires very little effort to post. Yet when your post gets shot down, one needs to immediately form a defense else the dopamine fix turns to a rollercoaster crash. And I am posting here  Embarrassed
4367  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 31, 2015, 08:17:40 PM
It is very important to recognize that we are targeting two different markets simultaneously and thus we will need two names:

  • Business market: Block chain network for block chain 2.0 features such as different assets, contracts, and programmable block chain. Requires a logically appealing name for the network.
  • Consumer market: Internet currency market, and especially with a focus on micro-transactions and social networking markets. Requires subliminally appealing name for the currency unit(s).

Shazam is the name of a well-known music company so you can forget about that.

I and almost everybody I know in Asia has never heard of that music app. So if global markets are paramount, then their brand recognition may not be the paramount consideration. I don't think they can assert a global trademark on block chain or online currency since there is a clear distinction of products. They apparently have been unable to stop others from using the name in other contexts, although (and I haven't verified all) the others may have been well established since before that app was created.

However, it is worrisome that shazam.net is an established financial services company. Could use instead shaazam to side-step, but even so this is somewhat risky and the alternative spelling might lead to misspellings and confusion.

Also I think the key realization is that shazam is not ideal for either target market. For the business market it is too cartoonish. For the consumer market, it only naturally connotes the instantaneous aspect (shazam is an instant transformation like magic poof) and with more pizzazz than others we've proposed, but lacking any distinguishing quality for a currency unit. Also it is not very brandable for a currency unit, because it has existing less general meanings such as in Comics cartoons.

It was a good name for a magical, fast proof-of-work algorithm in a niche setting (where I originally applied it to an unpublished proof-of-work hash design), but not for a widely brandable name of a currency unit.

Shazam is apt where some magic is implied. I think we don't want to introduce mysticism, since the business market wants reliability and the consumer market wants clarity/simplicity.

I haven't voted, but from the list you've got, love is probably the best IMO. It's a juggernaut providing you can transcend it out of the male-orientated nerd soup of the cryptosphere. Tricky to pull-off yet potentially stratospheric.

That is what I was originally thinking. But I have since become more enamored with 'ching' and 'ka-ching' which seem much more naturally fit to a fungible money. Love is damn adstract and is reach to get people to think about fungible money and love being equivalent. After further contemplation, I don't think love is as general as fungible money. Thus we'd be pigeon-holing (subsetting) fungible money. Perhaps "enlightenment" is more general than love.

Please be aware my tentative (subject to change) plan is I will not launch the currency unti here in this forum, to investors nor to cryptonerds. If my plan succeeds, I will be launching it directly to the users (a.k.a. technophobes) via an application they need.

The block chain network name will be targeted to the cryptonerds (a.k.a. technophiles).

Clickz is clearly bad - I suspect nefarious BCT accounts are trying to lead you up the primrose path with that one. You ought to be careful about stuff like that.

As best as I can surmise, 'clickz' works in the mind of those people are trying to conflate some notion of internet advertising marketing with our naming goals. It seems to imply a lack of significant understanding/thought of the points made in the thread, and just a instinctive reaction of those who think of pay-per-click advertising's prevalence on the web and the dominant advertising funded economic model of the web.

Perhaps you're trying to think about the situation too logically. So often programmers get addicted to the logical inertia of their code that they can't help apply it to the issue of aesthetics. This is why programmers and marketers are two different faculties. There are exceptions to the rule, but in general there is a demonstrable division in thought-process that should remain divided.

I wear both hats reasonably well as demonstrated by my past successes in mass markets and on being the sole or lead developer (as well as the janitor, marketer, customer support rep, accountant, tax advisor, etc... I had a lot of energy in youth!).

My thought process ever since I proposed the name 'Sync' for the block chain network and separate names for the currency units, was to acknowledge that I am fully aware of what you are pointing out, and that I knew we needed a logically appealing name for the business target market and a simple, catchy name for the consumer target market. Both markets require aesthetic names, but the aesthetic requirements are different. The business market needs to be simply fit yet not threatening to reliability, logical concerns or needs, and other serious considerations, e.g. IBM = International Business Machines and Microsoft = microcomputer software. The consumer name needs to convey some clear notion that elicits a positive emotional reaction, while also not being confusing (neither in spelling, phonetics, competing consumer brands and popular trends, ease of popularly catching on and being widely identified, etc).

The majority of end-consumers tend not to really give any thought or care at all to the etymology or logic of a branding concept. Apple Computers for example: It's not even allegorical - completely abstract. Amazon, GoDaddy, the US Dollar. What does any of this crap actually mean? Not much.

Apple Computer, GoDaddy and Amazon are targeting a consumer market. Their business respect came from their achievements in the consumer markets. But they weren't initially targeting a business market orthogonal to their consumer market offerings.

In general, people gravitate (mostly subconciously) toward simple aesthetics. The sound of a certain combination of phonetics and/or syllables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_poetry. The look of a certain shape, symbol, angle or parallel. Simple impressions with abstract personalities.

Yeah observe the impact on reader's impression after they see my mockup of 'Sync' with gears on the 'nc'. People need to see, hear, or sense the aesthetics.

Leave the logic and the reason for the code itself.

Well for targeting a business market, I observe that if the name has some logical relevance then it has more convincing and powerful effect. Businesses hate risky choices.

Also if you're going to do it properly get the symbol sorted out first. Assuming the cryptocurrency is to function like any other currency, the symbol is hands down the most important constant to get right. The symbol is the greatest memetic representative of the finished product.

Just think about about the universality of the dollar symbol, the euro symbol, the yen symbol, the bitcoin symbol. Simple colorless shapes.

So if you're starting with a blank canvas where anything is possible, choose a symbol (for it's abstract aesthetic beauty) and work backwards. Use the symbol as the starting point, and then come up with a name that best represents it.

http://www.copypastecharacter.com/all-characters

Remember that you're trying to spawn a currency, not a product or a piece of software.

Since I think I am choosing the currency units 'ka-ching', 'ching' and 'chan' (from largest to smallest), then the currency symbol is the well known cents symbol ¢ for 'ching' and 'ka-ching' layer a reversed ʞ where the vertical line remains in the same place as for the ¢ and the tips on the > extend out like gear teeth (to match the sync logo concept of gears on the c). For 'chan' I am thinking the h is layered on top where the vertical line remains in the same place as for the ¢.

ching
CHiNG/
noun
an abrupt high-pitched ringing sound, typically one made by a cash register.

ka-ching
kəˈCHiNG/
noun
used to represent the sound of a cash register, especially with reference to making money.

Ch'an (traditional Chinese: 禪; simplified Chinese: 禅, abbr. of Chinese: 禪那; pinyin: chánnà), from Sanskrit dhyāna, meaning "meditation" or "meditative state")
noun, Chinese.
1.
Zen (enlightenment)

Thus:

ka-chingchingchan
ka-ching= 1000 ching= 1 million chan
ching= milli-ka-ching= 1000 chan
chan= micro-ka-ching= milli-ching

Thus if ka-ching (kiloching) are $1 or less in value, then ching are preferred for expressing whole numbers for values between a tenth of a cent up to a few dollars at most. And chans (or milliching) are for micro-transactions with whole numbers for values between 1/10,000 of a cent up to a few cents at most. To express value smaller than chan, then a number with a decimal point can be used, else 'millichan'.

The problem is as the value for the currency rises, the exchange value of ka-ching will not stay within the ideal range between $1 - $10, thus the relevant association of value brackets will change over time until the exchange value stabilizes.

I have thought perhaps we can put in the block chain what the value of a 'ka-ching' is so that the consensus network keeps within that desired range of $1 - $10, i.e. when it falls below a dollar, then a 'ka-ching' is revalued to 10 times greater and vice versa. This would require that websites use some scripting for displaying price quotes so their displays update as the block chain does. This has trade-offs.


Note please realize that users who think of only the currency unit, will be able to find the GUI clients via the appropriate Google search and end up at:

ka-ching.cash
ching.cash
chan.cash

That currency unit is just one asset on the Sync consensus network. Thus it is an orthogonal product to Sync.

And those business users searching for Sync, would end up at:

Sync.run



Edit: a quoted discussion explaining why the currency unit asset and target market is distinct from the block chain 2.0 functionality:

I would go for Ethereum before Dash.

Well, Ethereum got a nice boost when they got endorsement from Microsoft but its not focussing
on all the digital properties of money (transaction speed, transaction privacy, fungibility, decentralised voting and budget)
like Dash is doing.

Instead it seems to be more of a platform for developers where others can create applications that they can then run on top of it.
So i consider Dash and Ethereum two totally different projects and both have space to grow in their own niche.

edit : with perhaps Ethereum operating in a much bigger niche than Dash...

I agree there is really not a valid comparison there. Dash and Bitcoin are somewhat a valid comparison as both are attempting to be primarily payment systems, not smart contract platforms. They differ somewhat in how they approach things like privacy, fast payments, etc. but the goals are at least similar.

4368  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 31, 2015, 06:53:05 PM
Very roughly (the proportions are not balanced in this rapidly hacked up mockup) what I am thinking about for a Sync logo, if we choose the Sync name for the consensus network.

4369  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 31, 2015, 05:40:14 PM
Someone asked me in a private message if I have compared my planned (currently vaporware) design to Factom.

There are some key distinctions between my design and Factom's:

  • Since Factom uses the Bitcoin block chain, it doesn't defeat selfish mining employing my math derivation.
  • Since Factom uses the Bitcoin block chain, it doesn't fix mining so that proof-of-work is unprofitable for ASICs and thus only the users mine.
  • Since Factom uses the Bitcoin block chain, it doesn't eliminate the 51% attack.
  • Factom conflates the requirement to use their tokens (factoids) in order to use their consensus network, thus network is not orthogonal to user's preferred asset class.
  • Factom transactions don't become irreversible for 10 minutes, whereas my design is on the order of a second or seconds to become irreversible.
  • Factom's consensus network is a fixed number of federated servers, and not an open, unbounded entropy permission-less network. I will not explain why at this time; this limitation in Factom is derives from the fact that Factom doesn't mine its own block chain.
  • Whereas afaik Ethereum's unresolved technical problem has been it forces all the nodes to verify each script (or did they ever stop thrashing their research and settle on a delegation algorithm?), contract, or transaction, Factom consensus does not verify at all (relegates to clients to interpret but afaics clients can't inhibit further downstream graph entanglement), thus a tangled mayhem! I believe my design resolves this major, major issue.
  • I do not see any mention of network partitioning tolerance for Factom.

There may be other differences and I will need to spend more time analyzing to be sure I have enumerated every difference.

P.S. still planning to evaluate eMunie.
4370  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Dash a better alternative to Bitcoin? on: October 31, 2015, 04:58:26 AM
Dash did at least three things better than Monero.

1. It arrived first.

2. The marketing was simple enough for n00bs to understand.

3. Evan was much more amiable and less snobbish and didn't go around posting in other coin's thread.

I was just joking with qwizzie because of the gaffs he committed. Wasn't really intending to attack Dash with the joke. I don't really need to pick sides. Any way, I am not going after Dash's market (altcoin investors). I am targeting users. I won't even be distributing my coin to investors. They will have to go get some from users (if my plan works).
4371  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Ethereum about to pull a Cloak? on: October 31, 2015, 04:47:23 AM
Is Ethereum about to pull a Croak?

ftfy
4372  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Dash a better alternative to Bitcoin? on: October 31, 2015, 04:37:00 AM
Is Dash even an alternative to Bitcoin?

The title of the thread seems presumptuous. Last time I checked, I can't use Dash on localbitcoins to get cash out into my local bank account, etc.. Dash isn't even close to being any generally applicable alternative to Bitcoin. Of the merchants who accept Bitcoin, my guess is less than 1/10 of 1% of them accept Dash.

If the thread was titled "Will Dash Evolution offer some technical advantages over Bitcoin?" or specified some limited scope within which Dash might be a useful alternative to Bitcoin, then at least you wouldn't look like such a dufus for titling a thread with a non-sequitur.

The only way you can tell me Dash isn't a huge improvement over Bitcoin, in speed and privacy alone

My point is those privacy features alone don't make it a general alternative to Bitcoin. It makes it a necessity for a microcosm of use cases that Bitcoin can do which Dash can not. I am just being realistic about the relative size of the ecosystems.

The claimed speed of Evolution is vaporware. Existing Dash transactions are not very fast.

I don't think you'd lie though.

Actually if I had told the complete truth last year then Dash would have never become what it did. But rather than pick a fight with the community, I just shut my mouth about the fact that the masternodes could break your anonymity.

But you challenge me to not lie, so now I will tell the complete truth. Now Evan is proposing to fix that hole, because CoinShuffle was invented in the meantime but Evan doesn't even admit it is CoinShuffle, thus not giving credit to the authors of that technology. And CoinShuffle is off chain anonymity which means it has a simultaneity requirement (violates the end-to-end principle) and thus can't scale. He is delusional if he thinks off chain anonymity will scale to rate of transactions he is proposing with Evolution. I am just waiting for him to get to testnet and start scratching his head. Believe me, I know a lot more about the technology than Evan ever did or ever will. Heck I invented on chain Zero Knowledge Transactions before Blockstream and Monero's cryptographer did. Monero and others are busy implementing this now and it will blow away the off chain anonymity of Dash.

I would love to see you make an amazing coin

I will and it will blow away Evolution in every metric, but unfortunately you investors won't be able to buy it easily.

Dash will likely make it to market before I do though. Good luck.

Hey I don't want to fight you guys. I have always held my tongue about Dash (until now). I was just being humorous with my prior post, because the recent Dash threads have become a comedy. It is as if all the smartest folk have disappeared from Dash. Someone explained me their forums are nearly dead. The market cap and volume is probably the insiders buying from themselves. The entire thing is I believe a phoney house of cards, but I can't prove it and I am really not interested at all in researching it. Evan has always been cordial with me, and I have no reason to pick a fight with him. He likely has bigger problems to worry about on the horizon (namely the SEC and jail). I pity him in terms of he sort of seems like a very amiable guy. Any way, I don't really know and I don't want to know.

Apologies I was just making a joke and you challenged me. Be careful with challenging me, because there is a lot more substance up my sleeve than I reveal.

Peace and good luck with Evolution.
4373  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 31, 2015, 03:57:36 AM
If we use Shazam as the network name, then we could use 'shazam' for the largest unit. Then the smallest unit could remain 'chan' (or one of the others) because I sort of like the 'ka-chan' for 'kilochan'.

ka-chan reminds me of ka-ching.

ka-ching
kəˈCHiNG/
noun
    used to represent the sound of a cash register, especially with reference to making money.

I am really liking 'ka-ching' as the smallest unit when you want to say 'kiloching' (1000 ching) and just 'ching' otherwise.

And that sounds Asian but sort of derogatorily so?

People like their money to arrive immediately like magic. Shazam! And they like when they've got it. Ka-ching.
4374  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 31, 2015, 03:48:54 AM
BlocSync -------bs?

If we go with that name then I prefer Sync over BlocSync any way. BlocSync is just in case users get confused as to what Sync is or does, or if there is a trademark hassle with Sync. I also registered Syncoin.net.

The other companies that use Sync can't claim trademark except where our use would create confusion over which product was referred to. The Ford Sync vehicle media operating system would not be confused with a Sync network for block chains. The Sync cloud storage and Bitorrent's Sync cloud file exchange don't claim trademark infringement against each other, so how can they justify an infringement claim against our use for a decentralized token and block chain.

I have had another idea in my back pocket since 2014. I actually named an early version of one my proof-of-work hashes this name. I've done a bit of research on the trademark and it appears it is the same situation as Sync, where no company can claim a broad trademark:

http://piratedthoughts.com/dc-comics-fighting-to-protect-the-shazam-trademark/
http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?28326-Any-copyright-over-shazam-word&p=819977#post819977
https://www.shazam.net/MRTrademarkUsage.html
http://www.shazam.com/company

If we have trademark hassles, we could use 'shaazam' instead.

Thus I propose a new name choice, which actually might work for both the network name and the coin unit:

shazam

If we don't use it for the network name (i.e. use Sync instead), then we could use 'shazam' for the smallest unit instead of 'chat' or the others.

If we use Shazam as the network name, then we could use 'shazam' for the largest unit. Then the smallest unit could remain 'chan' (or one of the others) because I sort of like the 'ka-chan' for 'kilochan'.

Shazam means magical and instantaneous.

sha·zam
SHəˈzam/
exclamation
    used to introduce an extraordinary deed, story, or transformation.

I propose another name choice and an interesting domain is available for it:

vortech (vorte.ch)
4375  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Totalitarianism on: October 30, 2015, 11:28:18 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c72bk/uk_banks_ignore_kyc_makes_london_biggest_money/
4376  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Dash a better alternative to Bitcoin? on: October 30, 2015, 10:12:43 PM
Is Dash even an alternative to Bitcoin?

The title of the thread seems presumptuous. Last time I checked, I can't use Dash on localbitcoins to get cash out into my local bank account, etc.. Dash isn't even close to being any generally applicable alternative to Bitcoin. Of the merchants who accept Bitcoin, my guess is less than 1/10 of 1% of them accept Dash.

If the thread was titled "Will Dash Evolution offer some technical advantages over Bitcoin?" or specified some limited scope within which Dash might be a useful alternative to Bitcoin, then at least you wouldn't look like such a dufus for titling a thread with a non-sequitur.

Should Dash as direct competitor of Bitcoin still keep a presence on this Bitcointalk forum?

Yes, all publicity is good publicity
No, its counterproductive and will limit Dash in the end

Please don't leave the entire forum will collapse.

If Dash leaves the Altcoin discussion forum, there won't be hardly any threads remaining  Tongue

There are 6 Dash threads in the first page of this Altcoin discussion forum. And you are creating another one to ask if you should create less  Cool

Clearly the correct answer is "all publicity is good publicity"  Undecided
4377  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 30, 2015, 09:58:56 PM
I have voted to clickz / clix i think that looks more realistic as like some other people voted there, i would like to more details about this upcoming anon coins what specification will be for it?

Thanks for your comment. Comments help me discern what voters are thinking. There are no bad comments, because they always clarify.

Anonymity is not the priority feature I am aiming for now (will add anonymity also eventually). I am focused on block chain improvements such as higher TX/s, scaling of the block chain so it doesn't become centralized as blocks grow large (as is the case in the current debate about Bitcoin block size increase from 1MB to 8MB), and also to add some partition tolerance so that if the internet becomes partitioned then coins can't be spent on every partition as is the case for Bitcoin.

Do not expect any technical details nor a testnet result soon. I am just getting back to coding, after reaching a crisis in my health in August and September.

I understand that many people who voted are initially attracted to clickz / clix (or ion) because those mesh with what people here seem to think is catchy for themselves and the people they know.

I understand a project named Sync / BlocSync sounds boring. But really this is for a very serious overhaul of Bitcoin's fundamental consensus network, and aiming towards block chain 2.0 type features eventually, so we need a serious business name for it.

I am proposing to put the catchy name on the units of the token instead. If we name the token "clicks" and so the person who wants to get paid says, "please pay me 5 clicks", it really doesn't make sense. How can I pay someone "clicks", does that mean I have to click my mouse 5 times? Actually in a micro-transaction you would be paying to click and receiving money by allowing clicks (i.e. not paying in clicks). To click and enter a site, you need to pay something to enter. I suppose one might earn some payments by clicking, such as clicking some captchas or in some game where you earn points.

A few of us have liked the word 'chan' for the currency name. "Please pay me 5 chan". Now I know that sounds ridiculous at first, but new terms are sometimes how you become very unique and branded if the usage catches on and becomes popular. "Chan" is sounding Asian and is the last name of the famous actor's screen name Jackie Chan. In Chinese, "ch-an" means "enlightenment", which sort of cool thing to pay in. Chinese are very much into systems of exchange and culture where you gain knowledge.

If the creators of Dogecoin had done a poll, I am confident Dogecoin would not have won the poll. Yet look how well the concept worked and branded in the market. Sometimes polls need to be ignored. But I am trying to explain and get synergy with the readers and voters here. I am reading all your posts with interest and trying to learn what is in your minds. It is not impossible that I would be swayed, especially as I learn more about your perspective.
4378  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Lets build an Altcoin together. Completely the opposite way it being done now. on: October 30, 2015, 08:31:18 PM
I deleted this comment for obvious reasons, but quoted it as an example of what goofy comments I will just delete.

Huh  Huh

That was a very astute comment. He is telling you exactly how it is. I wouldn't dare stop what I am working on to come work on some fantasy as what you've described in the OP.

I understand that you feel if we can just get together we can do much better. But this just shows how little experience you have. There are already organized efforts that have many developers contributing to open source such as Monero.

Trust me the challenge is more about knowing what to code, not only having the right devs to code. That creative knowledge will come from an unexpected direction. Overly organized (and politicized) attempts tend to suppress creativity and the decentralization you propose is the antithesis of organization (thus it appears you aren't really clear on what you are asking for). We already have decentralized development in the form of many altcoins. I know you want everyone to team up, but that isn't decentralization.

Any way, none of us has the free time to explain this to you. I don't mean to get on your bad side. But I do hope you will listen to the wise advice you've been given.

P.S. I didn't notice you had created a moderated thread for this. I would never have posted. Moderated thread maybe for your own altcoin to deal with trolls, but on a subject matter like this then moderated thread is really anal. As you just proved by deleting an astute post that nearly all experts would agree with.

4379  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ion] Poll for name of AnonyMint's upcoming coin? on: October 30, 2015, 08:25:46 PM
Oh my. I will indeed have to learn that sharing expertise has its downsides. And sometimes it is better to say nothing.

One more time I will help you, although the wisest action from a competitive standpoint would have been for me to not respond and let you continue with your perspective.

Consistency in our case is the probability of a double-spend (and the inability to reverse a record of a completed transaction, which is involved in the same probability), since that is the only consistency that we need. Consistency of topology seems to be irrelevant as a direct metric of any consistency that concerns the goal of the consensus.

Let's start from this point.

I find your definition of "consistency" unsuitable for cryptocurrency analysis. I could create millions different instances of a ledger in such a way that they can be merged into a single instance without a single double-spending at all. Do we see consistency in such the case (before merging)? Obviously, not.

Obviously yes, if we agree that consistency of disallowing double-spends into the ledger and not reversing the time ordering of transactions is our desired consistency.

Note that CAP theorem is used on a more abstract level than the level of account balances. I can imagine a perfectly consistent distributed system (by sacrificing A and P) which sees all double-spends that have ever happened. If we use your definition of "consistency" then we'll get an absurd result. I suggest to stay away of home-made definitions because they will lead to profanation of Brewer's theorem and won't let us to do a proper analysis.

That is quite an absurd proposition you have made to say that eliminating the prevention of double-spends and allowing reversal of time ordering of transactions amongst differing graphs seen globally as being some useful form of consistency. There are no decisions that can be made from such mayhem. No one can decide who owns what. That is consistency  Huh  Cry

Once you agree with me on the above we'll move to the next point.

Obviously I don't agree with such absurd nonsense. Sorry but I find the hubris in the way you phrased your nonsense ("home-made", "profanation") to deserve an equal reaction.
4380  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IOTA on: October 30, 2015, 08:20:00 PM
One more time I will help you, although the wisest action from a competitive standpoint would have been for me to not respond and let you continue with your perspective.

Consistency in our case is the probability of a double-spend (and the inability to reverse a record of a completed transaction, which is involved in the same probability), since that is the only consistency that we need. Consistency of topology seems to be irrelevant as a direct metric of any consistency that concerns the goal of the consensus.

Let's start from this point.

I find your definition of "consistency" unsuitable for cryptocurrency analysis. I could create millions different instances of a ledger in such a way that they can be merged into a single instance without a single double-spending at all. Do we see consistency in such the case (before merging)? Obviously, not.

Obviously yes, if we agree that consistency of disallowing double-spends into the ledger and not reversing the time ordering of transactions is our desired consistency.

Note that CAP theorem is used on a more abstract level than the level of account balances. I can imagine a perfectly consistent distributed system (by sacrificing A and P) which sees all double-spends that have ever happened. If we use your definition of "consistency" then we'll get an absurd result. I suggest to stay away of home-made definitions because they will lead to profanation of Brewer's theorem and won't let us to do a proper analysis.

That is quite an absurd proposition you have made to say that eliminating the prevention of double-spends and allowing reversal of time ordering of transactions amongst differing graphs seen globally as being some useful form of consistency. There are no decisions that can be made from such mayhem. No one can decide who owns what. That is consistency  Huh  Cry

Once you agree with me on the above we'll move to the next point.

Obviously I don't agree with such absurd nonsense. Sorry but I find the hubris in the way you phrased your nonsense ("home-made", "profanation") to deserve an equal reaction.
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