You cant judge bitcoin like some stock that realy has calculatable value behind it.
Bitcoin is speculative guess at best, since there is nothing backing it up.
The reasong why its so volatile, and currently experiencing another dip, is by my opinion mass of investors that went in on bitcoin expecting very fast progress that didnt happen, and they are currently leaving the market, worrying that they will have further losses.
That's quite possible. There are probably some investors who are doing that. However, in my experience with auction markets like bitcoin, I would expect price to drop more violently if there were a bunch of investors dumping their coins. My guess is that a slow bleed like this is more indicative of miners selling off what they're mining to make ROI. |
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its good , for everone , and you can earn on it  Actually, unless you're doing a huge amount of work yourself, you'll lose out on it. Installed solar panels are ~$3-5 dollars per watt on property you already own. ROI is over 20 years at current electricity prices (averaged out priced throughout the entire USA). Solar panels have a 15-25 year life-span, so you're playing the numbers game, and odds are against you. Here's an example from a quick google search: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/gridtie.htmlIt looks like you can buy the equipment for $1.50 to $2 per watt, depending on the size of the system, and it comes with a 25-year warranty. I'm not sure how much installation would cost, but I have a hard time believing that it would cost more than a few thousand. It looks like federal tax credits can also knock off up to 30% of the installation cost. Let's say you get the system that produces about 866 kWh/month for $10,300. Let's even say it costs as much to install as the panels cost. So let's figure $21,000 total for the system, which would be a little less than $15,000 after tax credits. I hate it when they say "up to" 866 kWh/month, so let's round that down to 800 to be conservative. Over 25 years, you should get 800*12*25=240,000 kWh out of it. Let's say you pay $0.08/kWh, which is also fairly conservative. You'd save $19,200. So you're already up at least $4,000 over the cost of the system, and that's not even taking into account rising electricity costs over time. So if you have the cash, it's probably worth it even now, but the savings isn't huge yet. Great job, but no. During winter months, your "up to" 866 kWh/month goes down to ~100-200 kWh / month. Also, as the solar cells age, they become less efficient. "Monthly Output based on 5 sun hours per day" - Wow, that's a LOT of sun time every day. My town has a solar array installed, and all the statistics are available publicly, so it helps quite a bit estimating my ROI. Here's the current stats on a 2 MW solar farm: July is one of the best months, so we're just hitting 5 hours a day. But look at months like December / January. That's around an hour average of sun per day! Your math also doesn't include maintenance of kit, replacing failing kit (sure, the equipment is under warranty, but the labor to remove it, ship it back, get a new piece isn't), any fees your carrier has associated with tying your solar system to the grid. As opposed to a decent stock portfolio in which I have a 10% ROI per year. Hmm. Ok, fair enough. I was hoping to compensate for overestimates by being conservative in my calculations, but apparently that's not enough. Thanks for sharing actual stats. It's so hard to know sometimes. Where do you live? And do you know how efficient those solar cells are supposed to be? There's still a chance that a solar array would be worth it if energy prices go up significantly, but it does look like it's a gamble, at least until efficiencies double or so. |
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The solution is not capitalism or socialism.
Feudalism managed by a wise king can beat capitalism.
The problem is that adjective "wise." Kings, like politicians, rarely, if ever, get into power because they'll be good rulers. They get there because of their connections to the people who already have power (which would be genetics in the case of kings). |
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Survival of the Fittest is the law of nature. Capitalism is the economic version of this law of nature. There will always be at least one person who has less than everyone else, which by definition would make him/here "the poor". But Capitalism allows anyone to pull themselves out of that poor state, Socialism doesn't have that mechanism. Socialism doesn't have mobility. The freedom of mobility while poor is more valuable than not having the freedom of mobility and being middle class.
Additionally, business breeds business, capitalism success for one results in capitalism success for others...
I agree that capitalism allows for upward mobility (as well as downward), but it's simply not true that anyone can pull themselves up because not everyone has the opportunity. A lot of people get stuck in a poverty cycle. If your parents are uneducated and poor, then it's pretty likely that you won't get much of an education either. And without a decent education, there are very few opportunities for a better life. Flipping burgers at McDonald's won't get you out of poverty. |
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The new coins coming in everyday is clearly a major factor which prevents price rise and is costly for existing holders. All those in charge have also got big mining investments so they will not like to hear this.
Saw there were some initiatives on creating an exact chain as Bitcoin with some form of PoS. While it is impossible for it to happen now, things might change in a couple of years.
Yup. Know a couple of people that are sweating the fact that these types of changes are even being discussed at any level. Pretty funny the parallels between massive mining operations and the central banks they where meant to conquer. Why would people who are mining now care about this? Most of their equipment will be obsolete in a few months anyway. If it looks like bitcoin is seriously starting to move in that direction, then just get out of the mining business. |
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Well most of my non geeky friends have lost interest in Bitcoin beyond being something that would deliver more fiat money to use for mall shopping and going traveling, they just want a nice extra on their shitty situation (mine is shitty too) if it doesnt improve their life quality they get bored with it.
A lot of people may be starting to give up on bitcoin now that it's lost some of its novelty. Price stability may cause problems, too, as a lot of people are looking for the next bubble. If it doesn't happen soon, more people may stop caring. |
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Bit coin will NEVER be worth $3m each. There you read it here first.
Sheeoout. I'll even go out on a limb here and say bitcoin never even hit's a million. It depends on how long bitcoin is around. If we take bitcoin starting at 600 and assume 3% fiat inflation, even if bitcoin remains the same value relative to fiat (meaning it also goes up at 3% per year), it will be over a million dollars in only 251 years.  |
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This is the change in the top 20 Mintpal coin votes in the last day:
1: XBC 23462 (+61)
2: ENRG 20723 (+214)
3: XSI 19262 (+134)
4: MNR 17937 (+4)
5: ADN 17913 (+100)
6: SPN 17551 (+60)
7: IXC 16196 (+2)
8: BCT 15335 (+461)
9: MEOW 15010 (+2)
10: SFR 14959 (+5)
11: EXE 14695 (+427)
12: CYC 14642 (+704)
13: NOTE 14150 (+507)
14: GRC 14125 (+4)
15: PCC 13071 (+110)
16: 888 12905 (+10)
17: PTC 12131 (+31)
18: BEE 11534 (+4)
19: 66 10576 (+5)
20: BOST 10325 (+5)
MNR should be easy to pass. But we just can't seem to catch up to ADN. What happened to the voting? We were getting 200-300 a day two weeks ago.
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I think we have a shot for modestly higher prices by the end of the year, but I think it pretty much comes down to investment opportunities. The launching of large investment funds would help. An ETF could easily spark another rally, but it's hard to know if that will happen before 2015 or not.
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Everything in moderation. It's not good to have a purely capitalistic society, and it's not good to have pure socialism. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Capitalism generally leads to innovation and incentive to work hard. But it's important to have some socialistic policies/programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance. Putting morals aside, it's not good for society or the economy if people don't have a means to stay afloat if they lose their job, for example. Risk of default would increase significantly. Taking it to an extreme where people stay on it for years is not good. But it can be very helpful to get you through a couple tough months.
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Internet is one of the best thing that happened in out times. although there is also dark side of it, totally depends on you.
Look how convenient it made our lives Instant Mails, Instant News, Instant Videos anytime anywhere, Communication , Employment, Innovation.
One things that haunts me about internet is Kids not taking their eyes off smartphone screens, uploading most awkward stuff that one can imagine, and missing all the actual fun they can have outside of the virtual world . Internet is that convenient that one can blame it for making people lazy.
Yes, it is particularly worrisome for kids. But that's mostly on parents. It's up to parents to make sure that their kids grow up as well-rounded individuals, which may require limiting their internet time. |
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Expect a big price drop. Already predicited months back where coin is going to go. Was at $600s to $680s then down to mid $630s to $650 areas Now market is where I said it would be at $600s to $580s.
Next week to 2 weeks prices will be at $550s to $440 area dont believe me watch the markets already sloley happening as bigger numbers in smaller trades over time are increasing in BTC vols increasing and other coins being bought up. end of weekend LTC will get back into the $10s and $12 area so if you want to goon ltc markets id be moving stuff over their for now and enjoy some price increases on a lot of the other alt coins including one of the newest ones BitcoinDark and Curecoin. and a few others.
So it will soon be a good time to buy? Its good time to buy now and ride the waves of $10 swings and more but have to wait $600 is about the high atm give or take a few dolla in-between but expected to drop still before it goes back up Technical analysis would suggest that we'll see $550 before $600 really holds again. But, IMO, the price has been amazingly resilient since it broke below $600. I expected a quick drop to $550. At least on bitstamp, there's a really nice buy wall at $590 that's holding things up. So I'm slowly becoming more hopeful that we'll start going back up soon. |
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We are still at the early stage of bitcoin's life, in the future, when the adoption will be completed, they will be valued thousands of dollars.
This is exactly a reason why bitcoin is not a good investment. Anything this is new is going to carry a lot of risks. It just depends on what kind of investment you're looking for. Usually high risk investments have the greatest potential for high reward. Bitcoin is a lot like a penny stock that might be worth a lot someday (or, at least it was a couple years ago; it's obviously matured some since then). |
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Hi, I have a question, but please direct me to a post if already asked: In case of another GFC, would BTC bitcoin price: a) stays on the same level  b) skyrockets c) tumble down  Take your pick: Anyone know where this image was originally published? And if another GFC were to happen, I don't think the general public is ready to put all of their fiat into a cryptocurrency quite yet. There is still a liquidity issue and the tech issue. I think you're right, a lot of people wouldn't. But if some did such that bitcoin started rising in contrast to a falling stock market, it would look pretty attractive. That might draw more people in. Additionally, if a bitcoin ETF is available so that average stock market investors can buy in very easily, such a crisis might give bitcoin price a good boost, at least for a short time (maybe another bubble?). |
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The new coins coming in everyday is clearly a major factor which prevents price rise and is costly for existing holders. All those in charge have also got big mining investments so they will not like to hear this.
This is something I've been wondering about recently. With all the new mining hardware that's been purchased in the last few months, and the fact that the price hasn't moved much, I can see how there may be a lot of pressure to sell to pay off the equipment. If it really looked like the price were going to take off again, more miners might hold on to their coins. But as it doesn't look like we're about to hit ATHs anytime soon, they may be trying to get what they can, afraid that the price may drop more. If the miners did not earn enough bitcoin to recoup their initial investment them the miners would have nothing to sell. I'm confused. Could you please explain what you mean? Here's an example of what I'm saying: Let's say I buy $5,500 worth of mining equipment using fiat, and let's say that based on current and projected difficulty, I expect to be able to mine about 10 bitcoins before the difficulty becomes so high that I won't be able to mine profitably anymore. As long as I can sell my mined coins for at least $550 each, I will break even (of course you'd have to consider electricity costs, too). If the price starts rising, then I can be patient and see what happens since I know I'm still in profitable territory. If price stays where it is or looks like it may start falling, then I may feel pressured to sell what I've mined so far so that I minimize my chances of taking a loss on my miner. Of course, there might also be a point at which I would just hold my coins and hope for better prices. |
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Dell and Newegg offers 10% off with bitcoin purchases. That pretty much beats any fees incurred from purchasing bitcoins and create incentive for a closed-loop bitcoin economy.
Those are limited time promotional offers. Only for Alienware with Dell, and lets just check Newegg for a moment. *Offer expires July 31, 2014 at 11:59PM PT. Offer valid while funds and/or supplies last.
Does not include Newegg Promotional Gift Cards, Marketplace or Open Box items.
Cannot be combined with other promo codes, or promotions that include a free gift.
Total discount limited to $100. Enter promo code: BITCOIN at checkout.
Discount not applicable to taxes or shipping.
Discount is applied before taxes and shipping are calculated.
Offer is only valid for purchases made using bitcoin. By using the promo code,
you consent to receive additional deals and promotions through our e-mail newsletter.
Limit one discount per customer.
All prices reflect the final price after savings/rebate(s). Offers expire 07/31/2014 at 11:59 P.M. PT. Especially the "Cannot be combined with other promo codes part". Is that Bitcoin promo really better than would you could get for Alienware or Newegg anyway? While I agree that in the short term these promos aren't going to help the price of bitcoin much, it does raise awareness and get people to try it. If nothing else, it's a step in the right direction. |
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Hmmmm, I see. That is an interesting conundrum. I'm curious...I've seen many people say that mass adoption => bitcoin value skyrocketing. I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree, but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind that. Could you please explain?
I'd say that the value would skyrocket because people would start buying BTC eagerly, at a bit more than it's price (Value at the time is $600, they offer $601, goes up from there), since they think that they can buy anonymously. It's common with stocks, a stock everyone wants is $10, people offer $11 to get it first, etc. That's true for investing, but doesn't mass adoption mean that everyone is using (i.e., buying and spending)? If that's the case, then we're talking about a lot of people spending what they buy very soon after they buy, which should be relatively price neutral. |
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Not going to happen. As bitcoin gets more expensive, altcoins will provide the supply needed for the utility of bitcoin (doing business) which will reduce the demand and thus price of bitcoin.
Newcomers to crypto-currency aren't going to want to be part of a system where a select few have incredible wealth, hence why they will opt for altcoins instead of bitcoin.
umm except no one takes altcoins? Not only that, but I don't think that's true anyway. Look at Litecoin. A quick google search for an LTC rich list shows that about 80% of the coins are held in about 1% of the addresses. Pretty much all successful coins are going to have this kind of distribution because you always have a few early adopters that get most of the coins while the diff is still insanely low. |
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1 - Attract people saying bitcoin price increased by 1 million percent in the fast 4 years, and they can get millionaires if they have some bitcoins.
2 - Complain they don't spend bitcoin, and for this the price is not rising.
Seems some people are doing the wrong propaganda of bitcoin.
Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying, but for #2, hoarding will increase the price, not make it fall. If you spend bitcoin, I think most merchants will convert it to fiat very quickly, which will lead to a drop in price. If I'm not misreading OP, he said we need use our bitcoins to bring mass adoption. Since mass adoption = bitcoin value skyrocketing, he's saying that we need spend bitcoin to make its value rise, at least in the long run, but bitcoin is sold by many people like the investiment with biggest return ever created(the HODL people from the speculation subforum), so there is no incentive to use it(= lose big money in the future). If no one wants bitcoin, the price will plungue even if everyone just hold it. Hmmmm, I see. That is an interesting conundrum. I'm curious...I've seen many people say that mass adoption => bitcoin value skyrocketing. I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree, but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind that. Could you please explain? |
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its good , for everone , and you can earn on it Actually, unless you're doing a huge amount of work yourself, you'll lose out on it. Installed solar panels are ~$3-5 dollars per watt on property you already own. ROI is over 20 years at current electricity prices (averaged out priced throughout the entire USA). Solar panels have a 15-25 year life-span, so you're playing the numbers game, and odds are against you. Here's an example from a quick google search: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/gridtie.htmlIt looks like you can buy the equipment for $1.50 to $2 per watt, depending on the size of the system, and it comes with a 25-year warranty. I'm not sure how much installation would cost, but I have a hard time believing that it would cost more than a few thousand. It looks like federal tax credits can also knock off up to 30% of the installation cost. Let's say you get the system that produces about 866 kWh/month for $10,300. Let's even say it costs as much to install as the panels cost. So let's figure $21,000 total for the system, which would be a little less than $15,000 after tax credits. I hate it when they say "up to" 866 kWh/month, so let's round that down to 800 to be conservative. Over 25 years, you should get 800*12*25=240,000 kWh out of it. Let's say you pay $0.08/kWh, which is also fairly conservative. You'd save $19,200. So you're already up at least $4,000 over the cost of the system, and that's not even taking into account rising electricity costs over time. So if you have the cash, it's probably worth it even now, but the savings isn't huge yet. |
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