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Then perhaps people will be encouraged to make better choices going forward and the predators will starve. BTC investments should be made with the goal of obtaining a positive return measured in BTC. If you have to do exchange rate hocus pocus to justify your investment in BTC mining gear then your investment was a mistake and you should have kept your BTC in your wallet or used your fiat to put BTC in your wallet and left those in your wallet.
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I apologize then. I've been attacked by so many LC cheerleaders I can't even tell who's hostile anymore.
The shares are not mine. Therefore my vigilance is increased.
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That's someone that will always be counted on to measure EV in fiat. ^^^
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LC's unwillingness or inability to provide much of anything by way of technical specs or hard evidence that they're close to being ready to hash is taking a toll. That and everyone knows they should've had the boards ready before the chips even arrived. They should be hashing now.
It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.
They initially estimated 4.8Gh/s/chip and 12W, but (as discussed prior) that would difficult to cool, and they're using chips with no heat pads. Since they said they'd have about 2,000-2,500 chips that works out to a clockrate between 3TH/s/2000 chips = 1.5Gh/chip and 4TH/s/2000 = 2Gh/chip. At 2.5W/gh that comes out to 3.75W/chip to, which would be much easier to cool. Their calculations may have been that it was simply cheaper to use a cheaper package (with no heatpad), cheaper heatsink and twice as many chips as it would be to cool a 1cm chip putting out 12W If you do the math the numbers are completely consistent with the number of chips and the way they're packaged. Right. They're more on target with 3-4Th given what little we know about their chips. The 6Th original estimate is the outlier and it's a good chunk of miscalculation or fairy magic. I see ( https://btct.co/portfolio/f8A1) you still hold 5k shares. Why don't you sell them? I've got buy orders waiting to be filled and it's kind of boring. Or are you just trolling for more cheap shares? Did I get the address wrong? Is this *NOT* a discussion board? Is this NOT the labcoin thread? I didn't see a neon sign anywhere that said "LC Cheerleaders only". BTW the word troll is so grotesquely overused by this point that it's really meaningless. It simply means "I disagree with you and have nothing to contribute by way of meaningful discourse". ...only abbreviated. You self proclaimed master day traders seem to think everyone is interested in constantly flopping around from one asset to another. It's comical. I have no interest and instead invest in the exchange itself so I can benefit from all the floppers. |
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Everyone you mentioned is claiming they'll ship before Cointerra. Long lead time makes Cointerra pricey.
Obviously BFL is excluded as they'll always ship two weekstm from today's date.
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The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now. People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola. Actually their thread is riddled with people complaining about the pre-order model. Fortunately with the magic of instant rewind we can check and see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.0Anyway why do you suppose so many want to use CC/Paypal to pay? Could it be because they want to be able to initiate a chargeback? They want a do-over option because the terms of the contract may change over time. IOW pre-orders suck and they want a way out. |
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It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.
They initially estimated 4.8Gh/s/chip and 12W, but (as discussed prior) that would difficult to cool, and they're using chips with no heat pads. Since they said they'd have about 2,000-2,500 chips that works out to a clockrate between 3TH/s/2000 chips = 1.5Gh/chip and 4TH/s/2000 = 2Gh/chip. At 2.5W/gh that comes out to 3.75W/chip to, which would be much easier to cool. Their calculations may have been that it was simply cheaper to use a cheaper package (with no heatpad), cheaper heatsink and twice as many chips as it would be to cool a 1cm chip putting out 12W If you do the math the numbers are completely consistent with the number of chips and the way they're packaged. Right. They're more on target with 3-4Th given what little we know about their chips. The 6Th original estimate is the outlier and it's a good chunk of miscalculation or fairy magic. |
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The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral. Have you done much ground-floor level investment into emerging technologies and sciences before? Because this is essentially how it goes. I've done ground-level before, the rewards are the sweetest, the risks are most bitter, and at the end of the day you'll be drinking either way. Your posts constantly remind me of the folks back in the early 80's who were hating on the Microsoft crew. Trouble is this is not MS, this is an extremely time sensitive hardware investment and it loses value every second of every day and that includes the time frame between when the pre-order is placed and when the pre-order is(hopefully) delivered. The risks are off the charts and they're being 100% handed to investors. Please see nearly any BFL investor for confirmation. As I said this was acceptable to my mind for knc's first foray, but I'd liked to have seen them move away from this silly model for future orders and at least shoulder some of the risks themselves, but they did not do this. I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors. Either you're a genious or your viewpoint is skewed because hardly anyone else sees it that way, especially considering KNC has taken more risk than any other startup in the ASIC world. There's risk with ANY altcoin mining OR purchasing OR preorder of equipment. Any! There's risk with the stock markets for heaven sake! Presently, every other option out there is 99.9% vaporware compared to KNC. At least with KNC's "pre order scheme" as the spirit of your posts call it, you can get your money back. You mean like the guy that voiced his agreement almost immediately after mine? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3091218#msg3091218"as the spirit of your posts call it" lol The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now. I believe THIS is the post you're attempting to pick apart, so let's put it here for context shall we? The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral. The gear that hasn't been built yet mind you. Yes knc is offering refunds and I wouldn't even have given them a second look otherwise, but we need to move beyond this ridiculous sales model. Just because you can get a refund doesn't mean you don't have losses. Those that are ordering are plainly interested in BTC and as such have numerous investment opportunities. When knc announced their plans to develop this hardware those that invested made their choice. Whether it was the right choice or not remains to be seen, but if they paid with BTC at that time then they're already way behind because they locked in an exchange rate that was most likely lower than it is now. If they paid with fiat then they likely could've purchased BTC directly and been better off. Again, nothing against knc as they've acted in good faith thus far, I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors. |
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200Th will likely be about 3% of the network by Dec/Jan. Not insignificant, but not way awesome either.
Anyway if they can't get their chips to hash in September after claiming they have them now then I'm going out on a limb and saying they're not competent enough to get their 65nm chips(which they don't have yet) hashing by December...at least not 200Th worth.
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3-4Th in October? Meh. I'd have dumped them.
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LC's unwillingness or inability to provide much of anything by way of technical specs or hard evidence that they're close to being ready to hash is taking a toll. That and everyone knows they should've had the boards ready before the chips even arrived. They should be hashing now.
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It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.
130nm chips? Is this a typo? Even Pentium 4 was 90nm and that generated a lot of heat! Wow. That's a phatt negatory good buddy. There's a world of difference between an incredibly complex cisc/risc general purpose CPU and relatively simple dumb hashing sha-256 chip. Though they're rather late to the party a 130nm process node is a reasonable choice for LC's first effort. It was going to be 180nm btw, but got changed. |
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lol TAKE MY MONEY NOW!  |
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It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.
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Was there actually an announcement that narrowed it right down to the second? The time on the countdown will be something like 4am in China. No and if there was Labcoin would miss it anyway. |
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There's no risk if you purchase with USD, I should say. Of course there's risk. There's the lost opportunity cost associated with buying mining equipment that will return less BTC than you'd have if you'd simply exchanged the fiat for BTC directly. Otherwise there's currency risk just buying the machine in a non-pre-order fashion, you could order and see the price of bitcoin shoot up 20% while you're waiting for delivery. The same is true of a pre-order and the more time that elapses between placing the order and finally having it delivered the more likely this scenario is to come to pass. |
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holding basic when it's unfortunatly going to act practically like a PMB? I got this one smidge. That's not even close to accurate jeffshed. bASIC-Mining has increased it's hashrate by 52.6% in the past month and has a paid order for hardware that represents another 55.7% hashrate increase for delivery next month. Perhaps you've confused bASIC-Mining with ActM? I see nothing in ActM's fairy dust press releases to indicate they'll come off their unimpressive 430Gh/s hashrate before Thanksgiving. |
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They must be making some headway because the hashrate on eclipse jumped about 25% all of a sudden. They're making plenty of headway. They're just not willing to let their victims know about it. 5-30Gh/s products are shipped out the front door, the rest are shipped out the back. Having a 100% error-free production line, means around several thousand employees in several different companies must function as precise as atomic clocks do, with absolutely no human-error. Even robots cannot achieve that, let alone humans. We will do our best to make sure a huge number of products get shipped everyday.
Regards,
Nasser https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=280092.msg3084280#msg3084280This idiot is supposedly in charge of BFL. At least that's the story since Sonny's escapades became common knowledge. |
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[UPD]: And public vote not protect minor shareholders. Yes, that's what you keep saying. |
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