Bitcoin Forum
June 27, 2024, 01:08:07 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 [232] 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 ... 365 »
4621  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, Bitcoin is about to be Centralized on: June 14, 2017, 08:59:04 PM
Why are you not worried brothers?

Why am I not worried? How about the fact that there is no such thing as Bitcoin blockchain master key? Duh.

They claim to seek the impossible. Not sure if they are stupid, or just engaged in some public misdirection. Probably the latter...
4622  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 08:27:19 PM
Is this new ICO coin  ?

I don't know. Looks like sig farming spam to me, so I'm ignoring it on general principles.
4623  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 06:54:23 PM
The correct path for BTC would have been towards energy efficiency

Why? Increased energy Bitcoin mining efficiency would not result in less consumption of electricity. Seems counterintuitive, but only at first glance. As proven by BurtW several years ago, the amount of electricity expended on Bitcoin mining is driven solely by the relationship between the prices of Bitcoin and of electricity. From any given equilibrium point:
 if energy efficiency goes up, profit goes up
 if profit goes up, more hashpower is deployed
 if more hashpower is deployed, electricity consumption goes up
And we hit a new equilibrium - where the money earned by Bitcoin mining again equals the money spent on electricity, plus some depreciation and some profit.
4624  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Barry Silbert segwit agreement with >80% miner agreement. (Part II) on: June 14, 2017, 06:34:11 PM
would seem to belie either a willful ignorance or maliciousness.

Come on folks. This thread only has one rule. No personal insults towards individuals or groups. It’s not that hard.

It is also not hard to avoid intentionally misrepresenting the position of those you do not agree with in order to ridicule their position.
4625  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] AMP - The Currency That Powers Your Attention On Synereo on: June 14, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
I think all y'all are missing the maiden source of the economic benefit. Which is that, through the Qrator/Amp mechanism, content developers are compensated for their efforts.
4626  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
also I wonder if another exchange may join in too... i.e say Coinbase

FWIW, Litecoin is already available on Coinbase.
4627  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 02:48:49 PM
- Don't you think miners have already enough power with their hashrate ...

Yes.

Quote
... that if they "win" this game they will be too much powerful...?

No.

Allow me to explain. The miners have exactly as much power as they have (is that a tautology?). The outcome of this will not change the balance of power. The fact of the matter is that in the system that Satoshi designed, the only power that stands against the miners making any changes they so desire is the power of the users to abandon the chain, making it worthless.

Quote
...than desirable?

Kind of. Not exactly. I regret that I did not fully understand Satoshi's design back in the early days of ASICs / late days of FPGAs. I -- along with the vast majority of the community -- abdicated my role within the power structure of Bitcoin. All the more regrettable, as I once participated as a (not insignificant) miner. But the simple fact is that we collectively ceded our power to a small collection of specialists.

But just as DiscusFish once had the clout to 51% the network on their own (which, BTW, they chose not to do), this too shall pass. As Bitcoin continues to grow in world monetary scale, it will eventually attract a new class of silicon vendors. Ones that exist already to sell silicon in general terms - not to specialize in the arcane details of the merchant Bitcoin mining business. With their own leading-capability fabs, they will be able to outcompete BitMain's model of outsourcing their fab production. And these high-volume silicon vendors will sell their wares to manufacturing powerhouses, who will in turn sell their mining systems to the populace at large on open terms. And we will all be able to get back into small-scale mining. Harvesting the waste heat to useful ends (residential water heaters being an obvious first target of opportunity?). Collectively outweighing the centralized mining houses. Likely still dependent upon pools, but not captive to the whims of the mining company CEOs.

Quote
- From what you have just said, I think you are not against Segwit/LN, are you?

Not really. There are some aspects of The SegWit Omnibus Changeset that I like, others that I think would be better solved in other ways, and others that I dislike. But I'm not against it just for the sake of being against it.

Quote
I "think" you are much more invested in Bitcoin than I am,

No idea. Other than pretty much everyone that I know would be downright astonished to learn the value of my Bitcoin holdings. Read into that what you will.

Quote
so I supposse whatever you support you do it in your belief that it will be a price boost instead of the oppossite.

Absolutely.

Quote
Also you seem to be "tech inclined" so that's why I want to understand your position.

While not particularly literate in Bitcoin tech (i.e., I've not studied to the point where I would be a competent Bitcoin dev, though with study it is certainly not beyond my capabilities), I am indeed tech inclined. My day gig is in a significant tech position with a significant tech company.

Thanks for considering my position on its merits.
4628  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: what is SegWit's arbitrary discount rate of witness data segment on: June 14, 2017, 01:58:16 PM
It 'fixes' the incentives only in cases where nodes throw away data needed for any future validations of the transactions. Whether or not this 'pruning' is a good idea is a matter of reasonable debate.
Incorrect. Regardless of if you prune the data or not, you don't need to access it, so it doesn't impact your working set size.

How, pray tell, does one validate a transaction, if one does not possess the signature data?

Quote
Quote
Turning fully-validating nodes into non-validating nodes is a rather funny definition of 'backwards compatible'.
they don't validate the new segwit things

Exactly. The SegWit Omnibus Changeset renders them non-fully-validating. In my view, that does not comport with 'backwards compatible'.

Quote
Quote
UTXO set size is some function of (# users) * (# of addresses holding value per user). As far as privacy is concerned, best practice dictates distributing your value across several addresses. Are we to follow The SegWit Omnibus Changeset with a recommendation for each user to hold all their Bitcoin on a single address? Privacy be damned?
Segwit provides absolutely no pressure to use fewer addresses for your managing your own coins.  


I did not say that The SegWit Omnibush Changeset creates new pressure to use fewer addresses. I merely point out that any benefit to UTXO set size of The SegWit Omnibus Changeset is marginal at best.

Quote
Quote
Introduction of a new fixed centrally-planned variable?
"1" is also a variable, there is no such thing as a neutral option there.

Yes, '1' is a variable. However, there is indeed a neutral option. And it is '1'. Because what is being paid for is space on the chain, in the form of bytes contained in a transaction.

Quote
Quote
Preferential incentive for offchain transactions over onchain transactions? Myopic much?
Nothing about segwit is "preferential for offchain"-- if anything it's slightly the opposite.

I have yet to see a cogent argument which supports your case. Or does your position not include an implication that Lightning is the step-function scalability jump that is enabled by The SegWit Omnibus Changeset? Regardless, the challenge is to your assertion that "As to why Bitmain would complain about it,  I am aware of no sensible reason."
4629  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Barry Silbert segwit agreement with >80% miner agreement. (Part II) on: June 14, 2017, 01:41:14 PM
But the issue is that Bitmain and friends ... claim that only miners should run nodes,

Well, that's not quite true either.

In satoshi's lexicon, 'nodes' are mining entities. While the language has since been altered to include 'validating wallets' in the definition of 'node', there is little support for this terminology in the whitepaper (the caveat being nodes that have simply 'switched off' their mining capability).

The arguing about the relative merits of this change in language is probably fruitless. However, there is significant disagreement about how much power validating wallets have - either in the singular or in the aggregate. 'Bitmain and friends' merely point out that validating wallets mean essentially nothing to the network as a whole.

To misrepresent this as 'only miners should run nodes' would seem to belie either a willful ignorance or maliciousness.
4630  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Barry Silbert segwit agreement with >80% miner agreement. (Part II) on: June 14, 2017, 12:45:32 PM
1. if core is perfect working code, then why does it need "fixes" such as malleability, quadratics
uh, those things are not dealing with "code" features they're limitations in the Bitcoin protocol which are fixed by segwit.

While I have some empathy for your position here, your assertion is not quite accurate. As just one counterpoint, parallel validation renders the quadratics situation a non-issue. It does this by orphaning any and all blocks that require an inordinate amount of time to validate. All by a simple code fix - no change to the protocol required.
4631  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Barry Silbert segwit agreement with >80% miner agreement. (Part II) on: June 14, 2017, 11:57:55 AM
also publicly announced that they plan to do a 72-hour selfish mine on their fork, which is ... odd to announce

Well, no odder than the UASF-ers (gleefully) announcing that they plan to allow that, should their chain depth overtake the legacy chain depth, all transactions ont he legacy chain would be rolled back.

Tellingly, the so-called 'selfish' mine is a direct defense against the above contingency.
4632  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: what is SegWit's arbitrary discount rate of witness data segment on: June 14, 2017, 11:51:51 AM
Segwit eliminates the size limit and replaces it with a weight limit.  The weight is computed so non-witness data (e.g. the above outputs) count 4x as much towards the limit as witness data (signatures).   The fixes the incentives by balancing the costs of signatures vs outputs to be roughly equal.  

It 'fixes' the incentives only in cases where nodes throw away data needed for any future validations of the transactions. Whether or not this 'pruning' is a good idea is a matter of reasonable debate.

Quote
It's also how segwit achieves a capacity increase in a way which is fully backwards compatible with old nodes.

Turning fully-validating nodes into non-validating nodes is a rather funny definition of 'backwards compatible'.

Quote
Finding a way to address the UTXO incentives issue was a major sticking point and breakthrough that made it possible to get many people to support any capacity increase at all.

UTXO set size is some function of (# users) * (# of addresses holding value per user). As far as privacy is concerned, best practice dictates distributing your value across several addresses. Are we to follow The SegWit Omnibus Changeset with a recommendation for each user to hold all their Bitcoin on a single address? Privacy be damned?

Quote
As to why Bitmain would complain about it,  I am aware of no sensible reason.  

Introduction of a new fixed centrally-planned variable? Preferential incentive for offchain transactions over onchain transactions? Myopic much?
4633  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 11:38:00 AM
Unlimited was firmly pissed all over by everyone who wasn't paid by Bitmain.

Incorrect.


4634  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 11:36:39 AM
my little stash is more money that i have ever possesed in my life. how can i protect it?

Answer is the same as it ever was. Hodl.
4635  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 14, 2017, 11:35:15 AM
Article is light on details. Still, if it is what I think it is....

Everybody wants to rule the world these days. It will also be pre-mined. Still, I guess someone will buy it.

Buy it!? It will be Bitcoin, pure and simple.

And the pre-mine? Not a pre-mine of new coins on a new blockchain. A means of invalidating any progress the UASF makes.

The removal of the precise centrally-planned amount of witness discount is perhaps the removal of the most odious aspect of the SegWit Omnibus Changeset.

While I need to look further into details, I am very encouraged about this development. Big blocks, improved version of segwit, removal of the biggest bug Bitcoin has (the artificial constraint on system capacity), what's not to love?

And the funniest part is that this is nothing but the obvious* solution to the UASF-ers 'threat' to roll back the non-UASF chain.

* (like, duh)

I've not been this encouraged about the future in months.
4636  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 13, 2017, 11:40:45 PM
Well the breaking news is that Coinbase... just closed down.
Nobody can access it any longer.

FUD. Fake ass false FUD. I just checked. Working fine.

I rather suspect the rest of your claims are bullshit as well.
4637  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Barry Silbert segwit agreement with >80% miner agreement. on: June 13, 2017, 06:16:51 PM
Bitcoin Unlimited.
We all agree that this code is crap.

Well, no. We do not all agree that BU code is crap. It has had some high-visibility bugs. All SW has bugs. The amount of detected bugs has been in inverse proportion to the size of the team. As is normal.

It is certainly possible that there are more critical bugs that will be exposed within the BU codebase over time. However, it is the only codebase in somewhat wide distribution that implements easily user-settable maxblocksize. As such, it is the only codebase that has a chance of solving the current scaling defect.

Right now, the largest bug in the entire Bitcoin sphere is the limit on transactions per unit time. BU solves Bitcoin's biggest bug. Permanently. And it is the only codebase which does so.
4638  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: does mircea popescu really have the power to decide if a hardfork happens? on: June 12, 2017, 07:20:04 PM

Umm... you do know that BTU has nothing to do with Bitcoin Unlimited, right? It is merely an intentionally crippled craptoken created so useless idiots would have something to post to try to tarnish Bitcoin Unlimited.

For the metric which matters -- hashpower as measured by block solutions -- BU hanging solid on 40%.

Like a boss.
4639  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So do you still support BU? on: June 11, 2017, 06:33:13 AM
Do I _support_ BU? Hmm... I don't so much _support_ BU, but I do _run_ BU. As far as I know, BU is the only somewhat mainstream choice of client that allows for maxblocksize to be a changing quantity subject to majority acclamation.

Well, yeah - wait - on the basis of that criteria, I damn double do support BU.

We all know it has had some implementation challenges - no need to pussyfoot around that. But the overall goals of BU are Bitcoin as I -- and, as I think Satoshi -- envisioned it.

Bitcoin needs to get out from under the forces trying to suffocate it with a pillow in its crib. Today, BU the the clear solution. There are others in development that fulfill the same vision. Bitcoin will in the end be liberated.
4640  Economy / Speculation / Re: Top 20 days for Bitcoin on: June 11, 2017, 01:08:00 AM
  1  2017-06-09  2824.82 

  39  2017-05-02  1438.93 
  40  2017-05-01  1385.70 

Number of days above 1/2: 39.
Nope - still not bubblelicious.

how many days would mean it is getting in bubble territory? 10?

Wish I knew. bullioner into'd me to this metric. Makes sense when your finally ponderate upon it. I think he tracked one of the bubbles at an 11-day doubling upthread. It might be good to look into previous post-hyperbolic implosions. Maybe something to learn there.
Pages: « 1 ... 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 [232] 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 ... 365 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!