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4661  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] OpenBitASIC : The Open Source Bitcoin ASIC Initiative on: April 20, 2012, 03:41:08 PM
I think you are vastly overestimating the contributions you will receive from miners before having anything to show for it.  Even if you promise them a unit for 100BTC, finding 500 people willing to pay that much money up front for something they can't guarantee will ever exist is a stretch...

I think more likely, you'd be able to find a group of investors to invest in a for-profit company in order to fund the development of the ASIC.
4662  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] OpenBitASIC : The Open Source Bitcoin ASIC Initiative on: April 20, 2012, 12:51:20 AM
You don't need to ask the question IF there is interested, based on what has been seen with BFL.  Demand is far outstripping supply with them, not because they are selling an FPGA, but because their FPGA is so much better than anything else out there.

If you (or a crowdfunded management team) makes an ASIC that is along those lines, there WILL be lots of interest for it.
4663  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Want to build a website, 0 coding experience... Should I? on: April 19, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
No, you should not
I agree with Andrew. Building a website that handles money is a terrible first project.
+1.  The biggest thing in building a website to handle money is security, especially in the hacker-friend Bitcoin community, and even though I've been programming websites for more than a decade, there's still a lot I do not know about security.  A newbie wouldn't have a clue where to start as far as security goes.

If you do decide to go ahead and build a site, then have it audited by at least 2 or 3 people for security flaws that need to be corrected before making it live.
4664  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [ANNOUNCE] +Coin Web UI for Bitcoin and its forks. on: April 19, 2012, 11:09:40 PM
Watching...
4665  Economy / Economics / Re: BITCOIN ATM MACHINES on: April 19, 2012, 11:07:49 PM
For small amounts it's perfectly relevant, for big amounts I wouldn't trust bitbills (or any variant) anyway.
Regarding the hacking opportunities you're wrong, pulling off a double spend isn't exactly as easy as tricking the faucet, the ATM will just wait ten seconds in order for the first payment to be properly propagated.
What if I create a transaction that should require a fee, but I don't include a fee with it?  Then the transaction is propogated with 0 conf, but it'll never go through.  In the meantime, at some point afterward, I can create another transaction with a fee sending those coins to my own address.  Viola!  Free cash from the ATM.

Solution: Have the ATM refuse to pay out on unconfirmed no-fee transactions, and instead have it print out a receipt with a QR code that can be redeemed for cash at the same ATM after the transaction gets confirmed (if it ever does).
What happens if the transaction doesn't need a fee, and the client doesn't include one (since none of them do by default unless it is needed)?

What if you send a transaction with a fee to the ATM and withdraw the money, but then send another one with a higher fee to yourself, banking on the rules of various mining pools to push the higher fee transaction through first?  Even if it only happens 10% of the time, you could make bank just doing transactions with the ATM over and over, waiting for that one chance of your second transaction going through before your first.
4666  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Bitcoin killer argument on: April 19, 2012, 10:47:10 PM
Taking percentages of percentages is pretty meaningless.

If something went from 0.000001% to 2.7%; then it's grown by 2.699999%.
You're wrong.

If something went from 0.000001% to 2.7%, then it's grown by 270,000,000%.

For example, 0.000001% of the world's population is about 70 people.  2.7% of the world's population is 189,000,000 people.  The growth from 70 people to 189,000,000 is 270,000,000%, not 2.699999%.

You're just telling me how to calculate a percentage; I'm pretty sure I know how to do that.  What I said is that it's a meaningless number; which you ably demonstrated.

When you say "growth" you're using percentages of the current world's population; except in your growth example the world population starts at 70.  If the world's population was 70 why would you suddenly use 7 billion as 100%?  70 is 100% in your example.

The growth from 70 to 189,000,000 is indeed 270,000,000%; but 70 is not 0.000001% of anything in your example, and 189,000,000 isn't 2.7% of anything in your example.

As I say, percentages of percentages are meaningless.

If, on the other hand, in year 1 population grew by 0.00001% relative to year 0; and in year 2 by 2.7% relative to year 1, the population did not in any meaningful way grow by 270,000,000%.

This sort of percentage of  percentage shit is what politicians use to tell us that knife crime has decreased by 10% when in fact it has decreased by 1%.
You seem to be severely confused.  Percentages of percentages are far from meaningless.  If I own a company that has a 25% profit, and that profit grows to 30%, then I would say that is a 20% growth in profit.  That's how percentages work.  That's how people talk about growth.  They don't call a 25% profit changing to a 30% profit a 5% growth in profit, because that's completely false.  It was a 5% growth in REVENUES, but a 20% growth in PROFITS.

See how that works?  The same can be applied to this blog post.  If Bitcoin fees are 0.00267%, then paypal and credit card processors charge (roughly) 100,000% more in FEES.  As a percentage of the total fee, they charge 2.699733% more.

It all depends on what you are talking about.  In this case, fees vs fees, it's 100,000%.  Fees as a percentage of transaction vs fees as a percentage of transaction, it's 2.699733%.  Same thing as saying your profits grew by 20%, while the revenue grew at 5%.

EDIT:  To further aid in the explanation, let's look at an example.

Someone purchases an item from me for $100.  If it was done via credit card, I would have paid $2.70 for that transaction.  That is my transaction fee.  But if it was done via Bitcoin, I would have paid $0.0027 for the transaction.

In other words, I paid 100,000% more for my transaction done via a credit card vs done via Bitcoin.
4667  Economy / Auctions / Re: [Auction] [Mining contract] 1 millions shares - 1 BTC start price on: April 19, 2012, 08:58:32 PM
30 BTC
Well, FINE then!
4668  Economy / Auctions / Re: [Auction] [Mining contract] 1 millions shares - 1 BTC start price on: April 19, 2012, 08:54:51 PM
28 BTC.
4669  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Bitcoin killer argument on: April 19, 2012, 06:57:38 PM
100,000=one hundred

100.000= hundred thousand
100 = one hundred
100,000 = hundred thousand
100.000 = hundred thousand

It's pretty easy to figure out what a person is talking about if there's no significant numbers beyond the potential decimal point, whatever that point may be.  If it's all zeroes, in most cases, it's not a decimalized number.
4670  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Bitcoin killer argument on: April 19, 2012, 06:51:26 PM
Taking percentages of percentages is pretty meaningless.

If something went from 0.000001% to 2.7%; then it's grown by 2.699999%.
You're wrong.

If something went from 0.000001% to 2.7%, then it's grown by 270,000,000%.

For example, 0.000001% of the world's population is about 70 people.  2.7% of the world's population is 189,000,000 people.  The growth from 70 people to 189,000,000 is 270,000,000%, not 2.699999%.
4671  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Bitcoin killer argument on: April 19, 2012, 05:36:10 PM
A couple notes on the article...

1)  Learn to use the space bar where appropriate.  Or pick a font with better kerning.
2)  Lots of misspelled words and grammatical errors... I'm guessing you're not a native English speaker?
3)  The 100,000% is correct.  Technically, it is 102,996%.  0.275 / 0.00267 = 1029.96 = 102,996%
4672  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Bitcoin killer argument on: April 19, 2012, 05:32:40 PM
**Phew** I thought there was a contract killer accepting bitcoins...

dodged that "bullet" Wink
Oh, but there is.
4673  Economy / Economics / Re: BITCOIN ATM MACHINES on: April 19, 2012, 05:27:49 PM
That being said I have to think a 0-confirm ATM is likely a bankrupt ATM. 
Double spend = free money (literally).
Maybe it could be programmed to allow to have only X coins pending confirmation, it would greatly limit the incentive to attempt double-spends.
Or maybe you could send funds to the ATM while not being right in front of it, in advance, once the transaction is confirmed you get a receipt that is redeemable for cash at the ATM.

The first one is a non-starter.  If the limit is too low the ATM is useless to any legit customer and yes some crooks will still attempt to steal a token amount of coins (ask Gavin the amount of fraud the bitcoin faucet gets and that is 0.01 max payout).  If the limit is too high all crooks will just steal that amount.
For small amounts it's perfectly relevant, for big amounts I wouldn't trust bitbills (or any variant) anyway.
Regarding the hacking opportunities you're wrong, pulling off a double spend isn't exactly as easy as tricking the faucet, the ATM will just wait ten seconds in order for the first payment to be properly propagated.
What if I create a transaction that should require a fee, but I don't include a fee with it?  Then the transaction is propogated with 0 conf, but it'll never go through.  In the meantime, at some point afterward, I can create another transaction with a fee sending those coins to my own address.  Viola!  Free cash from the ATM.

I wouldn't worry about instant withdrawals from arbitrary bitcoin address, those people are going to have to wait. Instant withdrawals would be for people that have wallet accounts with the ATM provider, or maybe even networks of trusted wallet services.
I would agree with this.

Think of it as a bank.  You have a bank account balance, and those are the funds you use to interact with the machine.  You can't withdraw from the ATM unless you have funds in your bank account.  Same as it already works with cash.

4674  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: SolidCoin 3.0 will have a daily fee for each address you have. on: April 19, 2012, 05:22:05 PM
Only at bitcointroll forums could giving money back to the chain be considered theft. Stay with your non interest bitcoin and see how far you go, SolidCoin is becoming a real economic force by allowing a variety of new services to be built on top its protocol.

Personally I think it's an awesome idea that reduces the effects of spam, essentially a self cleansing p2p network, while also giving funds back to the network in a fair manner.

I'm pretty sure you're the only one who thinks it's an awesome idea.

But hey, if you don't mind being forever alone...  Wink
4675  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: MTGox Green Address Withdraw time on: April 19, 2012, 05:18:01 PM
Mt. Gox is adding complexity to the blockchain, making it more difficult to see at a glance the additions and subtractions I made relating to my address they gave me. I use the blockchain to monitor the activity on that address and they are poluting it with their accounting system. I'm monitoring the blockchain looking to see what value I'm getting mining at the pool I joined, to understand my earning ability with current set up.

The right way for Mt. Gox to pay out withdraws is from a withdraw address funded from 'cold storage' directly, not incoming deposits. Incoming deposits should be moved to "cold storage" addresses only.

You could say the Mt. Gox system of accounting which includes paying withdraws and moving to "cold storage" using a single address would make it easy, if they were so inclined, to hide shady payouts in the noise of their odd acounting system. Who would expend the effort to look through 4.5 million BTC of Mt. Gox transactions to find nK of shady BTC deals which would fund some obfuscated account which might then be used at some future time to crash the system for profit.

Have we not learned anything from how the Federal Reserve was created. Bankers created the stock market, got average Joe's to invest in it with money they borrowed from the independent banks, engineered the stock market crashes and while we were dealing with a financial crisis they offered to solve the volatility problem by creating a central bank.
Do you not understand that EVERY SINGLE Bitcoin-based service does this?

By default, the Bitcoin client sends out whatever coins would cost the least in transaction fees.  That usually means the oldest and largest deposits will be used to send out coins whenever a customer withdraws from their account.

You cannot (and should not) rely on the blockchain to show you your account balance with any online Bitcoin service.  You should rely on the service itself to show your account balance.

As deepceleron pointed out, your expectations are about as ridiculous as wanting to get the same coins and bills you deposited back from the bank when you withdraw.  It's not going to happen.  If you want the same coins and bills back, then you need to rent a safety deposit box and dump them all there, which would be akin to uploading an encrypted wallet to a data storage website.
4676  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Concept] Buy or sell excess bandwidth using bitcoin. on: April 19, 2012, 05:01:47 AM
If you could come out with a router thats ready to plug and play with these features is that something you could put on kickstarter since you would then have an actual product to give out as rewards for backing it ?
I don't think it's legal to sell DD-WRT pre-installed on routers, so no, I don't think anyone would be able to do it.  At least, not based on DD-WRT.  There might be some other variation of linux that is sellable and runs on a router though...
4677  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box on: April 19, 2012, 12:41:53 AM
Can anyone report how hot (as reported by cgminer) their Rev3 units run? Curious to see how they compare to the Rev2 units.

About 63 to 64 degrees C. But that's in a 90+ degrees Fahrenheit room, i.e. my $215 p.M. mining office.
In fact, the [Nvidia] graphics card of the Toshiba laptop that runs CGMINER and the ZTEX miner seems to be on the fritz due to the heat and I just ordered a 17" HP laptop as a replacement - it's on sale for $699 today.
How the heck do you live in there without getting heatstroke? Huh

I don't "live" there - that's an office I rent (utilities included) in an office building for $215, and when I work there for more than 20 minutes, I take off my shirt and work in my undershirt, like a redneck.  Grin
I had an office even before I started mining, and got into Bitcoin mining less than a year ago as an afterthought, as a way for the office to pay its own rent.

Does that make sense, so far?

But now I've been infected by the Bitcoin fever and am trying to get a cash flow in the low-to-mid 4 figures going, with a Largecoin miner on order, a mini-rig box on order and 12 Singles on order, 4 of which have been delivered so far.
Utilities included, eh?  Hmmmm....  I might have to search for something similar in my area!

Be careful though. Sometimes, if the landlord traces it back to you, they might have the right to terminate your lease with very little warning.
Well, I'd certainly talk to the landlord about my plans with the place beforehand!  I would hope that Inspector has done the same.
4678  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box on: April 19, 2012, 12:29:22 AM
Can anyone report how hot (as reported by cgminer) their Rev3 units run? Curious to see how they compare to the Rev2 units.

About 63 to 64 degrees C. But that's in a 90+ degrees Fahrenheit room, i.e. my $215 p.M. mining office.
In fact, the [Nvidia] graphics card of the Toshiba laptop that runs CGMINER and the ZTEX miner seems to be on the fritz due to the heat and I just ordered a 17" HP laptop as a replacement - it's on sale for $699 today.
How the heck do you live in there without getting heatstroke? Huh

I don't "live" there - that's an office I rent (utilities included) in an office building for $215, and when I work there for more than 20 minutes, I take off my shirt and work in my undershirt, like a redneck.  Grin
I had an office even before I started mining, and got into Bitcoin mining less than a year ago as an afterthought, as a way for the office to pay its own rent.

Does that make sense, so far?

But now I've been infected by the Bitcoin fever and am trying to get a cash flow in the low-to-mid 4 figures going, with a Largecoin miner on order, a mini-rig box on order and 12 Singles on order, 4 of which have been delivered so far.
Utilities included, eh?  Hmmmm....  I might have to search for something similar in my area!
4679  Other / Off-topic / Re: Site to upload large files (13GB)? on: April 18, 2012, 09:14:00 PM
split 13GB file into multiple files (hint: winrar), then upload to mediafire. problem solved!
I'm not splitting a 13GB file into 65 different files, but thanks for the suggestion.  Wink

Like I said, I did find a free service that allows files up to 5 GB, so I am currently splitting the files that need it into 5 GB portions, and will give that service a shot.
4680  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box on: April 18, 2012, 08:11:11 PM
To jddebug, gigavps, sgtspike and others who don't care about 1 fan or 2 fans: I'm glad that's working out for you. It means you'll be happy no matter what shows up in the BFL USPS box.

For others, who cannot hide these things in a basement or closet or datacenter, the difference between 1 or 2 fans is more important. In fact, even the CHOICE of fans is important. There was a post earlier about someone trying to set a Single up in their bedroom. It doesn't matter why: Maybe they have no room elsewhere; maybe that's where their only computer is. The point is that a stock Single, with its dual 43 CFM 2100RPM 27dbA fans, is TOO LOUD for a bedroom in which you are trying to sleep. Perhaps it is even too loud for a living room you use to entertain guests, or a study in which you are trying to ... gasp ... study.

So if a Single arrives with just 1 fan, it's going to be significantly quieter than the 2-fan version (or the dreaded 3-fan version). In my personal case, I've put Singles into a basement office. They are the 2-fan style, and I found them to be disturbingly loud. Much louder than the SLI gaming PC I have in the same room. My solution was to replace the stock fans with quieter ones. Now, even with all other equipment turned off in that room, the Singles can barely be heard. Paradise.

So for me (and perhaps for others), the amount of noise coming from the Singles is very important. Yes, I care that they mine away relentlessly and reliably and that will always be the #1 priority. But I demand they do it with the least amount of disturbance as possible. And I'm happy with the balance I've been able to achieve.

If I had a datacenter next door, an empty garage, or unused basement I wouldn't care what fans they used or how many fans they had or how much noise they made ... because I wouldn't have to deal with that. But when they are in my face, in the same room, and I'm trying to think, they need to be quiet. They need to be SEEN and not HEARD.

So, yes, 1 fan or 2 makes a big difference to me. But I fully understand and respect jjdebug, gigavps, and sgtspike when they say they don't really care.
Okay, fair enough.  Wink  I guess I'm just one of the types to deal with the noise.  I don't need a quiet study, etc.  The only place I'd be really concerned is in my living room, as the TV can be only so loud before waking up the baby, and if it has to compete with some other noises, it makes it difficult to hear.
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