My paltry $22.22 came back yesterday too.

If one of those options being discussed is a bond or investment, could others get in on that too? Or would it be a private deal?

 

I got massively trolled last year (my first time  ), and thought it was a very well done troll https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45298.0

Hell no. Just suggesting he may be even more fucked than his investors. Or that it's possible that even if he is tracked down, there may not be any money there to recover. Not that he shouldn't be tracked down, of course.

Or, conversely, might bring out the best people to the forefront of visibility (since people may end up competing for good reputation).

Even if we don't have regulations, we can still have agreements everyone follows. And maybe after a while of some members causing too much havoc, without government regulations we'll simply, as a society, agree on being much more strict about that sort of thing. Maybe eventually it will be considered normal for many people to have some small bounties on them in the black market, and for people to keep track of how much they are pissing someone else off, lest it reaches high enough for someone to offer to work for said bounty. Who knows.
I'm not saying that whatever Bitcoin will have at the next stage will be good, or bad. We don't really have a clear answer to that, since it won't be anything like the typical Stage 8. I am saying that, to me, anyway, the next stage should be very interesting to watch.

True. There's also a risk of getting a negative rating in retaliation. Not sure how to deal with that.
We do have private credit rating agencies. I fully expect we'll have something similar for Bitcoin.

Joined in 2003 during Beta, built, programmed, and sold stuff, worked for some small companies there, was involved in some financial aspects and palled around with finance people, and "invested" in Ginko ($250 invested, $750 withdrawn). Somewhat abandoned it since 2008, only going there maybe once a month, since it's now a resource-heavy chat room that the rest of my friends have mostly abandoned as well.


Anshe Chung. Bought server space (land/islands), designed the land with various themes, resold or rented to others. Not sure if she's even involved any more.


When SL first started, and it cost a few $L to create an object in-world (one you can manipulate and texture to turn into items), everyone in game received a $L250 weekly stipend. This was done to limit the amount of newly created object "spam," since they did now know what their world servers could handle. Once pay-to-create was abolished, everyone still continued to receive a stipend. Eventually, with a whole lot of new accounts and no real way to destroy the money, everyone getting newly printed money every week caused said hyperinflation. Currency stayed somewhat level for a while, but then when it couldn't contain the new inflow of money, I think it went from around $L50 per $1USD to $250 per $1USD within a month or two (I made some money trading on margins during the crash). LindenLabs responded by hiring a full-time economist, and cut all the stipends for free accounts, setting them to $L50 for old accounts, and $L0 for new ones. They are also actively maintaining the exchange rate by destroying excess $L bought at their exchange.


Since LindenLabs had a dream of creating something like the virtual world in SnowCrash, they initially did not want any restrictions (this only changed when enough people whined about it). As such, they were completely for unregulated exchanges. They had no problems with people trading $L back and forth, or with competing exchanges, and helped the process along by setting up the first exchange themselves. They also saw it as a source of revenue, charging a percentage on exchanges same as MtGox does (though way higher fees). As far as I know, that policy has not changed.

For those who are unfamiliar with SecondLife (SL), here's a brief history run-down:
1) LindenLabs launches SecondLife, a completely open world with it's own currency tied to production (you spend money to "create" an object that you can build stuff out of)
2) LindenLabs unchains the currency from production, letting it float. Some minor trade begins
3) A currency exchange market is established, allowing people to earn money within SecondLife and withdraw their earnings to USD, or other players to convert USD to $L to buy in-game items
4) SecondLife economy EXPLODES, quickly progressing through the historical economic stages in just two to three years, those being:

• self-production (blacksmiths, farmers, in SL's case coders, 3D builders)
• assembly-line (small companies form to split up work, and create lots of generic duplicates for sale)
• and finally service economy (rent, land maintenance, and even escorts and gambling services)

5) Financial services just start to get a foothold within SL economy. These include banking, stock exchange, and yes, even HYIPs
6) LindenLabs hints at banning all gambling activities due to legal issues within the US. Casino owners run to withdraw their funds on the news
7) The largest bank in SL, Ginko Bank, collapses from a bank run, and in part from likely being a ponzi. Other banks follow. SL stock exchange crashes, due to a lot of the businesses listed being involved in banking and casino services.
8) After numerous complaints, LindenLabs passes new financial regulations, banning all gambling, and all interest-bearing accounts. Casinos, game places, and financial services close. Loaning freezes. Economy comes to a standstill, and many businesses and merchants abandon SL. Things are never really the same since.

In Bitcoinland, we have just passed through stage 7 (though at a smaller scale, even if the losses, $750k from Ginko, were much smaller compared to BTCS&T's $5mil).

<Atlas-speak>
One of my main reasons for why I got so interested in Bitcoin is because it is really the first true experiment in unregulated, free market capitalism (that I previously believed SL to be). At least in a modern global economy. SecondLife came close, but it was at about this point (stage 7) that LindenLabs stepped in and put in tight financial regulations. I felt as if I was a scientist, closely studying a process, and just as things started to really jump around and get interesting, someone stepped in, put their hand over what I was looking at, and said, "no, you can't see that." Being as curious as I am, I was quite dismayed. Of course, this exact same thing has always happened in the rest of monetary history: things go horribly wrong (ponzi, bank run, etc.), a few people complain, and instead of giving people a chance to see what kind of solutions they can come up with, someone always steps in to claim authority, blocks the solutions from even getting a chance to materialize, and puts tight controls on the currency to protect us from ourselves.
We are now where SecondLife was in 2007 (stage 7), but without Admins stepping in to protect us from ourselves. So, although all the recent scams, thefts, and other depressing issues have been a real drag on everyone recently, there is something to look forward to:
We are about to enter a stage that we were never allowed to see before; a stage we were always prevented from seeing; where, usually, someone would step in and say "I have authority, and no, we won't let you do that any more." A stage where we can finally observe human ingenuity at finding solutions to problems, without giving up our own responsibilities and trust to someone else. A stage where we can see whether we, as a civilized society, are actually even capable of learning how to deal with an uncertain, anonymous, and dangerous world, using our own senses and intuition, instead of blindly following established rules, trusting that whoever established them knows better, and thinking we don't have to worry about or question them.
And it is only thanks to Bitcoin's decentralized and unregulated nature that this will even be possible. I don't know if this will be historic (likely it will be a blip only we care about), but it will definitely be different, and completely new. And I, for one, am very excited to see where we will go from here!
</Atlas-speak>

I am a person with a background in finance and systems related to personal finance, and I am looking to give a lot of my time to a Bitcoin related project.
I have also looked into establishing a credit union years ago (obviously didn't have the funds, but looked into what it takes).

That being said, what would be the purpose? A well organized document detailing what, in our opinion, should be involved in establishing a reputable credit union? A think tank that can come up with innovative ideas for applying Bitcoin technology in ways not possible for a bank? An actual business that will compete with other Bitcoin banks and wallet services by providing unique services not found elsewhere?

As others (almost) said, multisig escrow. Buyer and seller sign transaction, and money can't be released until both parties agree on settlement. Worst that will happen is you don't get your product, and no one gets the money. It's coming, but watch out for trolls w/ too much time.

One of my main reasons for why I got so interested in Bitcoin is because it is really the first true experiment in unregulated, free market capitalism. SecondLife came close, but it was at about this point (gambling rampant, ponzi just collapsed, lots of people lost money and complained) that LindenLabs stepped in and put in financial regulations, banning gambling, betting, and interest bearing accounts. I felt as if I was a scientist, closely studying a process, and just as things started to get interesting, someone stepped in, put their hand over it, and said, "no, you can't see that." Being as curious as I am, I was quite dismayed. Of course, this exact same thing has always happened in the rest of monetary history: things go horribly wrong, people complain, and instead of giving people a chance to see what kind of solutions they can come up with, someone always steps in, blocks the solutions from even getting a chance to materialize, and puts on tight controls on the currency.
We are now where SecondLife was in 2007, but without Adkins stepping in protect us from ourselves, and I, for one, am very excited to see where we will go from here!  

Down to 15 5 now (Thanks for the reminder BTW).
Regarding OTC, it's a bit cumbersome to use, so people don't bother. I'm surprised people who thought he was running a shady business didn't rate him accordingly. Plus, I guess in the end, you would still need to trust your own intuition (great score, but refusing to explain too-good-to-be-true business? Stay away). I'm confident that, as with everything that has happened in Bitcoinland, things will break and lessons will be learned (such as OTC being useful, but not the final say any more, which is fine)

*allegedly * He could have lost everyone's money in someone else's ponzi scheme as well, and now may be as broke as his "investors"

Happy Birthday PinkiePie, wherever you are. I hope your year at Jesus Camp was well spent, and your collection of ponies is still safe at home. I can't believe it has been a whole year already!
Your birthday will certainly be a way more enjoyable holiday to me than 9/11

 

What's really f'in ironic was that people were saying that Bitcoin isn't susceptible to fractional reserve or that sort of inflation, and here we have a situation where a bunch of HIYPs apparently invested in each other and possibly created a whole lot of Bitcoin wealth that doesn't actually exist. Guess if there are bubles to be had, Bitcoin WILL find them (though the most likely result of this is fake wealth disappearing, Bitcoin supply contracting, and price going up.... though an even more likely outcome is no effect on price, because "oh, another weird scam or theft? *yawn*")

Also, for a brief moment, thought the magazine just above and to the left was titled Atlas Rising    

Stopped by my local Barns & Noble today, noticed this in the magazine rack






Decided I was going to own it






Was too bright to see the camera, so i was all squinty and OMG, there's a pimple on my nose!  

I.... don't know because I wasn't involved and don't care?

Not saying he didn't cheat, but would your opinion of him HONESTLY change if he paid you a tiny fraction of what he owed you? Would you honestly trust him any more, or change your mind about him having scammed people?




*cough* what?

If someone is honest and totally up front about how they will distribute everyone's money, clearly stating that new deposits will be used to pay the profits of older account holders, how is that being dishonest? The whole reason ponzis are scams is because people who operate them don't tell anyone they are running ponzis.
Or are your definitions only valid when applied however you want them to, because SA goons?

I did. That's why I bet only 20. If you're selling the bridge for $0, I'll take that too.


I think you missed the part where people are upset because someone else would've taken their money had he won, but would not pay out if he lost. It's a tiny bit different. Other people were also upset because Matthew spent 3 weeks building up to a HUGE climax... that in the end turned out to be a "meh." 
It's as if some guy invited everyone to come watch his spectacular fireworks, people took the time off from work to come see it, and when they got there, all they saw was him tossing a lit molotov cocktail into the air, and saying, "Get it? GET IT!?" And even after it fell on his head afterwards, it really wasn't all that entertaining.