Shared negativity!

That'd be them scamming the government.

Teppy, would you mind a. creating a WoT identity and b. making it plain you're the same Teppy (as for instance by publishing the same public key somewhere on your website)? Thank you.

7% a week. Let's not get greedy here.

Even if 1% is still probably overpaying, it's nice to see the price on that junk moving closer to real value. I keep seeing these threads where people ask for >50% on defaulted debt and chuckle to myself.

Well in fact Nefario claimed DMC will be suspended "until an independent audit will be performed". He then unlocked that without any audit whatsoever being performed. It's pretty clear that what Nefario says doesn't really matter at this point, so indeed the best solution would be to just ignore him completely and return to the statu quo ante.

To people who have pm'd : you will have an answer in ~6 hours.

From the contract:

Yes.


There'd be gpg-signed contracts of course. Such as this.

I lol'd. But seriously, state lotteries have negative expected return. How is this an investment?

PS. Nefario, this is the sort of thing GLBSE accepts now?

Awww! Well...there must still be some people with accounts.

Good luck with it.

That's right. Please pm me a list of assets (name and nr. of shares) you'd be willing to lend. Flexible arrangements available.

The counter to this is that a vast majority of companies have no business being listed in BTC, seeing how in fact they have little to do with it. If your diner serves American hamburgers to American citizens you wouldn't list it in Yen on the Tokyo SE would you? Just so, if your business is purely fiat a BTC listing makes zero sense.

BTC is for BTC companies not for fiat companies.


This is a good point, and one of the chief reasons MPOE has no mining rigs and no plans to acquire any. But I'd be very interested to see that model.


Indeed so.

Dear Maged,

All of usagi's posts are also offtopic (strangely enough). Please move the entire bunch in the Twilight Zone. I'll take over this thread and aggressively post bunnies.

See, this is the thing, people dissing the WoT don't really know how it works. So:

I. The only way to enter ratings is being registered with gribble. The only way to register with gribble is to answer a cryptographic challenge it issues, and the only way to do that is to hold the secret key for the respective gnupg keypair. Therefore, the only person that can use a name is the person that holds the specified keypair (on the page of that name you have a link anchored on "GPG identity"). This identification is as strong as Bitcoin itself, and that's why it makes for such a good solution.

II. The WoT is really an investment. It is slow to start off, but becomes exponentially more useful with your usage. At first you don't know anyone, so in principle it's difficult to make any judgments. Maybe you might know some of the names there, from other venues, and you can establish relations by talking to them, and in that case also acquire at least part of their trust list. Maybe you don't, in which case you start small, try to hedge your bets. You look to see who your op is being trusted by and who they trust. After you've made a few deals, you've started to recognize the names, you start giving them weight in your head.

III. The mistakes you can make are principally to think "trust" can be added, and so someone who received 50 trust brownies is more trustworthy and someone who received 5 trust brownies is less trustworthy. This is wrong (the trust points are not at all equal), and not the correct way to use that value.

The value only gives some indication of how likely you are to know someone who knows them. That is all. A user with 100 trust is about 10 times more likely to be trusted by someone you know than a user with 10 trust for the very simple statistical reason that you need at least 10 people to get 100 trust. This is the correct use of total trust: to compare the list of how many people you trust that rated the person with how large his trust is. A user with 100+ trust that you can't find was trusted by anyone in your list is suspect for this reason. Sure, it may be the case that he trades widgets and you trade nuggets, and he only knows people in the widget market and you only know people in the nugget market. But it's also possible that he's faked his trust. You have to decide which.

This is the great boon of the WoT: surely for sporadic deals in the 10-100 dollar range entered in among people that will never meet again something like Amazon Ratings works just fine. However, the WoT currently supports recurring deals among players with multi-million dollar balances of trade. That's quite a gap there, and half-baked systems like Amazon's don't scale. How is this possible? Well, it's possible precisely because the WoT is so fine and so interpretable. You want to deal with someone you've never met but has a high sum rating? Ok, are any people you know in his list? Ok, who? Then you can talk to them, and ask "what about X?" and they'll tell you what they did, bought coins, sold a motorboat, lent them $150k of mining gear, whatever. Sure, all this complex reasoning might seem like it's not worth it at the beginning. However, unlike any alternative it actually allows you a lot of space to grow.

Now, the only seeming breach to date was pirate's, who managed to get the trust of the vast majority of trusted people over the course of about a year. But the thing is, the WoT isn't intended to decide whether a person is trustworthy. Only you can decide that. The WoT is there to put the person in context, to make them visible to you. It was plain impossible for anyone using the WoT to not know what pirate was all about. Now, once knowing that, if you trusted him or not is your problem, not really the WoT's. All the WoT says is, hey, there's this guy, 58 people know him, have dealt with him, received money so and so. Put that together with the knowledge that he runs a "mysterious business" paying 3000% APR and you've got your answer plain.

In short for the tl;dr crowd: the WoT doesn't work by itself. The WoT is just the tool that allows you to do the work, and it's by a fat margin the best tool to date. Sure, you may be too lazy to use the tool, and that's fine. Doesn't however change what it is.

You can't pay people that matter to rank you. The WoT is a Web of Trust not a Sum of Trust.

The problem is what the problem always is: with a "foundation" inventing "standards" you lose out on the gnarly eccentric bits, which happen to be where value is born and innovation usually starts. With a foundation inventing standards you have some gates to keep the crap away.

There's no solution to this, both alternatives suck. The one valuable point, however, is that if MtGox gives its Bitcoin trademark to the foundation this will have been a net plus and a clear reason to have it: now there's somebody to keep the trademarks, somebody other than a major player.

The word you're looking for is travesty, but otherwise yes, this isn't going anywhere.

This is a red herring (one of the many that compose pretty much entirely your above post). Nobody is discussing what you're discussing, you've not touched at all on any issue under discussion etc.