How long would transfer of shares into passthrough take? There are Dividents anticipated for Wednesday.

Out of curiosity, what does the G in G.ASICMINER-P refer to?

no need to reinvent the wheel, use criteria from IRL exchanges.

market cap.  Too small for too long?  Delisted!

volume.  Nobody wants equity after the IPO pump&dump?  Delisted.

transparency.  How you make money is a sekrit?  Delisted.

we want BF to be the NYSE, not the TSX venture graveyard of dead enterprises.   

great job deprived.  You are hereby promoted to head of the Bitcoin Police.

ukyo, please take the garbage assets off BF ASAP (or change the name to ScamFunder).  The exchange loses credibility every hour such trash stays listed.

Besides, this brings up an interesting question. If fraud was ever decided on an asset, how should it be handled? I am always open to suggestions.

Right - I see your responsibility as being to ensure those listing provide some "proof" that they operate the business and of any claims they make in respect of its past performance.

It's down to investors to check the "proof" out and determine just how strong it is as evidence.  But if you don't do your part (making the issuer provide the proof) it's impossible for investors to do theirs (assessing it).

It was the only buy order up.  I'd cancelled my .0001 one below it.

If a business needs to raise $X or values itself at $X then there's no way it can ever have a good reason for selling shares well below the price that would raise $X.  Aside from the impact on the business it dilutes other shares previously sold.  Plus it's classic scammer behaviour

One of key things all IPOs need to state is the pricing polciy of shares (be it in batches, in BTC/share or BTC equivalent of USD/share).  There's no reason why he couldn't have stated that in his contract even if he kept everything else quiet.

I'm NOT in favour of excessive requirements in terms of ID etc.  But there's a bunch of very basic stuff that absolutely needs to be in every contract.  And #1 on that list is disclosure of the business - without that it's impossible to assess anything as, even ignoring financial issues, the risks can't be determined without knowing what area the business operates in.

Similarly, I'm NOT in favour of the exchange being required to (or liable for) assessing the viability and legitimacy of businesses.  But the exchange SHOULD be responsible for ensuring that anything listed provides sufficient information for potential investors to make such determinations themselves.  That again means the business needs to be disclosed.  It also means that (as was NOT the case with the other scam one) if a business claims a record of past profits then they should be providing SOME kind of evidence of it that potential investors can investigate to make their own determination of whether those profits look real or not.

The single biggest deterrent to scammers (and way to avoid problems down the road for legitimate businesses) is to force them to publish their contract and answer questions here BEFORE they get to start trading.  It's pretty much at that stage on BTC.CO/LTC-GLobal now.  There WAS one that got approval on LTC-Global without a thread first,  At the time I posted about it calling whoever approved it idiots.  It paid one dividend then vanished.  Since then, no business without a discussion thread has made any significant progress on listing.  If someone refuses to handle criticism/questions over their business BEFORE selling shares then there's about ZERO chance that they'll satisfactorily handle issues that arise down the line due to unclear/incomplete/bad/not adhered to contracts.

On Bitfunder it's the same since DT doesn't take any fees. You can even get your shares out of the PT if you have 250 shares or more.

Oh - I wouldn't be surprised of he DOES have a website and some sort of fledgling business.  But it's still a scam as he's trying to obtain money based on false statements.

The main reason it shouldn't be listed (even without his rather dodgy accounts) is because there's no disclosure of the business.  That makes it a gamble rather than investment - and turns your site into a gambling site rather than an exchange.  His 'business' is Satoshi Dice without the odds being published or verifably fair - you send off some BTC and may get back none, a small amount or a large amount with nothing you can do to assess the likelihood of the various outcomes let alone influence them.

If someone won't disclose their business then there's no conceivable reason why an exchange should list them.

Of the shares transferred to other accounts, how many of those other accounts were his own (obviously you can't tell me the answer - but it's something you should look at)?  One of favourite tricks of scammers/ponzis etc is selling/transferring shares to other accounts of their own - to make it look like there's more activity than there is and to allow them to inflate apparent dividends whilst not actually paying out much.

When you say you've locked down his ability to issue more shares do you mean he can't sell shares or that he can only sell the 1 million he already has?  There's a big difference between "he can't sell anything" and "he can only sell 10k BTC ($400k) worth of shares".  If the former then I guess the 500 sale earlier would be one of his alt accounts dumping into the only open Bid as he realised he'd been caught.

I'm failing to see how you ever thought he had a company worth 50K BTC - the value it supposedly has with 5 million shares and sales being at 0.01 BTC each.

Not sure why Ukyo lets crap like this and Exchange.ESIF list on Bitfunder when it's immediately obvious just from the prospectus that they're scams.  There's now plenty of reasonable or half-reasonable assets on the platform - and scams like these don't actually attract much volume (and what they do attract the exhcnage only gets to see about 1.333 times before it vanishes).

Anyway, here's why this one is a scam.  Some of the stuff here you'll have to check out yourself - other bits you'll have to take my word for (or ask Ukyo to check).

1.  His description says "This is not a public company or corporation, but is a private business. We are using this service to manage shares and dividends. We cannot prevent shareholders from selling or trading their shares to outsiders using this service, but it is the best system available so we are using it."  Yep - according to this he wasn't listing to sell shares himself, but to help manage the accounting.  And he can't help it if some shareholders trade on it.

But that's not what happened.  Right after listing he slung up a block of 100k for sale.  We know it was him - as all the shares except 17 (yep - only 17) were in a single account.  And since then he's been trying to sell non-stop including posting a totally laughable news release.  So we aren't off to a good start are we - when he lies about the primary intention of listing.

2.  He hasn't even identified the business.  I'd have thought Ukyo would have the self-respect just to laugh at him and tell him to fuck off when he asked to list without identifying the business, but apparently not.  Think everyone knows the track record of past companies that didn't even identify their business.

3.  Another common give-away for scammers is that they don't actually mind what price they sell shares at : after all they haven't got to protect investors' interests or raise a specific sum, they just want whatever they can get.  So I thought I'd see just how low he'd sell shares at.

I slung up a buy order for some at 0.0001 - that's 1% of the price he was listing for sale at.

Not long after :

2013-03-01 21:30:29    BUY: (Biz27B-6): 1 @ ฿0.00010000/ea

Hmm, what to do next?  Well obviously put it up for sale just below his own sell orders (delay is mainly because I didn't notice I'd bought it).

2013-03-02 19:06:44    SELL: (Biz27B-6): 1 @ ฿0.00990000/ea

Ah well, only 1 share - would be different if he did it on a bunch.

Like:

2013-03-09 14:10:34       ฿0.00995000    1    ฿0.00995000
2013-03-09 14:09:31       ฿0.00200000    500    ฿1.00000000

Yup - selling 500 at 20% of price he lists at, then immediately buying 1 off his main Ask so last bid is still high.  Just hope whoever got that 500 knows to relist under him and keep lowering price down.  Do I KNOW that sale is him?  Nope - but it's easy enough to check from cached ownership lists on Bitfunder.  Just can't be bothered to do it myself - as I don't need convincing he's a scammer.

4.  None of the above is conclusive proof of scamming individually.  Put together maybe it is.  But here's the real kicker.  He talks about having transparent accounting - where investors can see revenue and expenses go in and out of the business' accounts.  Now I was sceptical of this - how can it be transparent when we have no idea who is paying or being paid by him?  How can we be sure he's not just funelling BTC through a mixer to fake up his accounts?  Turns out I was wrong - it IS transparent and laughably so.

I had a look at the accounts addresses and was amazed and amused by what I saw and by his total stupidity.

The revenue account (starts with 1BizRev) receives funds in from various addresses and sends funds on to the Expenses account (starts with 1BizExp).  The expenses account then disburses these funds to various addresses.

Where it becomes transparent is because if you look at these other addresses you find some where ALL the account does of significance is receive from his Expenses account then an hour (or less) later send it back round the loop to the Revenue account.  Yep - he was too dumb even to use a mixer and made his accounts totally transparent - he's cycling the same cash around to make it look like there's business happening.

Here's some examples :

http://blockexplorer.com/address/17MVKyVjFsMAnsFKidGmJCWGmUfstLUXRa

receives 1.3 BTC from his expenses account (which received that from his revenue account) then 10 minutes later (yep only TEN minute later) he sends exactly same amount back to the Revenue account.

http://blockexplorer.com/address/1NsnBcrk6jJQGcwWCCAmBHcdG9VJofSGRA

This time he waits an hour before sending the funds on around the loop.

I spat coffee all over my keyboard when I first saw just how obvious it was - had expected it to take at least 10 minutes to work out just how he was cycling the funds around.  I haven't looked at half the addresses.  Would assume some will be receiving withdrawals from Bitfunder and pushing them round the loop - the size of his transactions has slowly grown once he sold some shares so had some cash to move around.  And would also assume some of expenditure transactions will be deposits to his alt accounts on Bitfunder so they can buy shares and make it look like there's demand plus assist his pretence of having private investors.

Anyone still think it's legit (other than Ukyo)?

2. huge hashing power to an "elit" of people will destroy BTC
(the same goes if a few people own huge BTC ammounts)

Selling gives produces:


So I used quickfill.

Please test with FF too.  Not everybody wants to give their soul to Google.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvwK-3cQ6gE

Do you not test your code on common browsers before deploying?

When you issue divs in BF, is it a lump sum in the interface?  Or is it per-share?

Also surprising it'd issue divs on unsold shares?  That sounds like a bug, might contact Ukto, it's probably easy to fix.

Cheers.

I'm having an issue viewing the chart on any of the assets.
After about 10 seconds the scale of the Y2 axis changes to be the same as Y1. It ends up scaling the line graph off the chart area.
For assets with high trade volumes like G.SDICE it also causes the browser to become unresponsive for 20 seconds or so.

Using Firefox 19.0.2


Hope it helps.

The 1000 have sold.

Which means it now falls squarely into a gap in your revised contract which says:

"For under 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 3%.  For over 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 2%."

So what's the fee for exactly 1000?

Is your scummy tracking cookies detailed in your privacy policy? This is an outrage!!

I kid