You're full of shit. Sue the fucker. It's been two months with little to no communication. As soon as I have the time I'll go to Texas and start collecting up his assets myself.
For those who lost multiple bitcoins - you're a bunch of pussies waiting this long to do something. I've stabbed people over less money.
You will "collect" it? Im not sure how you will do this. If you want to sue him you are prepared for getting a court decision in months or years? Or should i take your "stabbed" more serious and your some kind of thug? Anyway... i think its nothing behind your loud appearence. You dont have a magic way to get the coins back either.
Im considering that too but i spoke with persons that know what happened Does the plan involve getting the coins back from TF? Unfortunately i dont have a clue what the plan is because... NDA... oh... sorry... that was ken... i dont know what ukyos excuse on the silence is.
It just keeps getting worse and worse.
Ukyo also owes 2,000 btc for ukyo.loan liabilities.
And he had the funds in weexchange wallet for sure since that wallet contained everything even his private funds. I think thats another strong hint that no government agency is involved because if they seized because of bitfunder it wouldnt include seizing private funds of a person. The company funds ok, but the employees should be protected from it.
Ukyo... it would be cool when you explain your plans... you see people lose patience... |
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Hm... i really like that we finally get an update that... unbelievably... contains facts. Thats something i like really much. Though im not sure about the content.
So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.
I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.
I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?
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What about using the coins in cold storage to invest in an ongoing, or start a bitcoin mining operation?
There can not be a profitable bitcoin mining operation, it's a myth. Since almost a year ago all mining hardware is being sold way above the mined BTC price. People a willing to pay more than the equipment is worth because they don't know how to use a mining calculator, and that can not be changed. Nevertheless, even if for some magical reason there would be realistically priced equipment on the market, buying that would mean you give up the right to divest from JD, you are aware of that? I'm not willing to give up that right. I think what is happening is that the market is proving the viability of bitcoin by making the cost of mining the coins more than what could be gained from the coins produced. If people are willing to invest money into mining bitcoins even when it's unprofitable it proves that those people believe that the coins will be more valuable than their current cost of mining them. For instance, let's say the price of bitcoin moves to 2000 dollars per coin. Those people who had been mining all along will get the full benefit of that profit because everyone else for certain will have quit. Someone investing in mining bitcoins causes the price of bitcoins to go up because their investments increase the utility of bitcoin both information-ally and directly depending how they purchase the equipment to do the mining. If they buy their gear with bitcoins it increases the utility of the currency. The most important part to remember is that mining difficultly increasing is not an indication that mining is not profitable. It is an indication that the future price of bitcoin is going to be a lot higher almost always. Miners that have the most invested will have the largest edge. As far as the efficiency of the individual mining itself that's an entirely different thing. In theory if you could find a way to get a bunch of free electricity and computing power that was cheaper than the super high-tech miners it wouldn't matter what equipment was used to mine the coins. If you would be better investing those fiat into bitcoins instead then buying miners is not the better decision. Either you have an amount of bitcoins at the end or you dont. If deciding on if buying a miner one should consider that the amount of fiat exchanged to bitcoins or the bitcoins invested have to be mined back. That isnt happening. Some miners look like they will ROI but those are preorders only with insecure ending.
Olesentv... you should check the theoretical profit of investors against the factual profit of investors. Its always in that range. Dooglus cant possibly fake things here as long as he dont take out coins without changing the house value. I wouldnt await him doing so. But the calculations show there is no manipulation by dooglu. If there would it wouldnt even be worth trying because it cant be seen so small would it be. |
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I sent another 0.8389BTC so i donated a total of 2BTC now. Please guys donate the remaining 2.315BTC to get to the total 7.27BTC the lawyer needs. There are only a couple workdays till next week anymore and im sure many others lost not a few bitcoins only with labcoin too.
It would be great if this runs without further delays.
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Did anyone else received a confirmation from Riccardo? I explicitly asked for one in my first mail, but didn't get any answer.
It would be nice to know that all sent documents were delivered and in order before Friday's deadline.
I enabled MDN and DSN on both addresses i sent the email to. I got a positive answer for both DSN and a positive answer for the real lawyers email via MDN. So i know he read it at least. I think if youre included you should get some sort of paper to sign at some point. I guess a lawyer wont misuse an ID. |
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What about using the coins in cold storage to invest in an ongoing, or start a bitcoin mining operation?
It's about 20 million in equipment that could be bought to mine. You could just lower the maximum profit on bets since the amount is rarely being tested anyway.
An 80/20 ratio seems reasonable. That should allow for very fast compounding and gives investors three layers of investment.
1. The 1 percent edge
2. The mining
3. The bitcoins themselves
Never ever. Im out then. Mining operations are way too risky lately, buying miners wont break even in bitcoins, developing asics and miners is a competitive and prone to error market. Not a good idea for me. On top the house has to be there in case someone beats big parts of the house. If investing then better with your own money. Otherwise you could open a just-dice-website, claim a house of 50k bitcoins and promise to pay later if someone wins. That wouldnt be a reputable business. |
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1.9.7... when you delete a label of an address then its stored only temporarely when you have the label plugin enabled. The empty string isnt saved but the old string is restored.
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Hi guys,
I'm still up to this! I already know the lawyer, I met him at the end of November during the first "official" Italian Bitcoin meeting. He's also the official lawyer of the Italian Bitcoin Association and he did a great job with all the "paperwork" needed to start the association in Italy (we got so much bureaucracy here, it's pure madness).
He already got my information, the missing part is about Labcoin: I have to resume everything and with the closure of Btct it's quite a mess (I have to track down the trading emails, the Bitcoin exchange value, etc).
He's also "lurking" on the forum, honestly I can't think anyone better than him for this task.
Like E.Sam wrote... you should be able to download the trading csv. And why bother with exchange rates? You lost bitcoins and bitcoins are the thing you need back. |
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I like to asking other's opinions about involving legal action to against UKYO?? because I am considering to sue UKYO.....
Im considering that too but i spoke with persons that know what happened and all tell me that ukyo's plan is the best bet getting my bitcoins back. So waiting some weeks or even months more wont hurt me very much but sueing him bears the risk that nothing comes back because the problem might be backed by the company, so ukyo dont have to pay, or that it takes years until a court decision is made and bitcoins come. If any. For some reason weexchange as a company seems to be important for that "plan". Whatever it is. |
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So WTF are you on about then. There has been no fraud, no misrepresentation of information. There has only been PR in this instance.
I did not for one minute believe that shipped product meant mining machines or rigs. If you or anyone else did that is your right. It doesn't make Ken a criminal, it just means you misunderstood the implications of VMC having shipped 'product'.
I was a shareholder at that time and of course i thought he shipped the first miners. Everyone thought so because the time was matching the anticipations of the start of shipping. I cant see what "product" of VMC could be shipped to be worth to announce it like "the products" started to ship. I dont think its illegal but at least its not correct and misleading for the purpose of holding VMC up. |
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I see that you did not say what your timing was when you sold your shares. Mostly likely you sold because of being on the board and having inside information.
So instead simply answering the main question that is going around "what product did you ship" you chose to point to someone who once tried to help you? Sounds like the old game "If the people suffer and you fear they will come after you give them a hint that a random group is guilty. So the anger is canalized away." Worked perfectly in the world history. And it looks users in here happily jump on it. I would prefer the answer to what was shipped. If there was something shipped. Before someone claims otherwise... i own a significant part of ActM.
No one with an IQ out of the single digits is a "shareholder" in this ridiculousness.
I guess you missed that a shareholder doesnt has a choice nowadays. Though i even wouldnt be able to chose when the shares are tradeable. |
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See my post above Seb.
My personal view - it was chips from a first batch that were shipped. They would have some value and we clearly don't seem to be hashing with them so Ken filled an early order. If they met the advertised spec the customer will be happy - if not they would have got them at a discount I'm sure.
I really dont believe that. It would mean tapeout already happened. Ken once let it sound in IRC like we would have done a successful test with a prototype but since then nothing was heard from that miner. So i doubt there are chips at all yet. Tapeout should be the most expensive part in the Asic-Game and i dont think that he first develops a chip and then develops the next. If there was a tapeout for the old chips already then it would be cheap to create more of the old chips and we would already mine. So i dont think he shipped chips. It would simply be too expensive to test 2 designs of chips. He mentioned no miner was shipped so it wasnt a prototype either. That let me asking what happened to the prototype. Or was there never one? And shipping empty cases for 8000USD? I would be angry if i get an empty case when i await running miners. Not one single customer complained about something like that. Maybe he shipped some cables or stickers or so but nothing that would be worth mentioning in a status update and letting it sound that "the product" starts shipping. This is a miner producer so the product are miners. I agree that it would be really misleading when no own asic chips or miners were shipped. |
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Maybe im missing something but VMC has a variety of products. All products are self developed miners and chips. Since the chips were delayed it couldnt be miners nor chips that shipped. I dont see other products that could have been it: http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php |
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hmm so, let's try something else reconfiguring the last proposals and fixing the bugs 1.create a new google account that no one knows about, set the security question to some mambo-jumbo so it can never be guessed 2.upload your wallet data to that google account with another text document describing how to use bitcoin or/and how to sell it 3.delete your browser history! this is important as someone might find your new e-mail adress, or he can simply log-in to your account 4.Leave a will with notes for 4 family members 5.leave a note to person no.1 saying "google docs" 6.leave a note to person no.2 saying "my_email@" but don't leave gmail after it so he needs to contact other family members for further info 7.leave a note to person no.3 with your password without any further info 8.leave a note to person no.4 saying " Note that family should stick together" this is fucking genius, I admire myself  You should encrypt that document with another password otherwise google and of course the NSA can see right through it. Only a precaution since you never now how far they will go in 10 or 20 years. Maybe its not only terror or industry espionage but hunting down everything... because they can. |
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seems like he can escape with > 1 Mill $.
He plays over time until people give up their money and lose interest.
No he won't, at least not with my money. I will get what's belong to me one way or another eventually. If a thieve is involved you wont get it back since ukyo for sure cant work up that many. |
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Wanted to send 1 mB.
It was a donation. So, I didn't care when it processes.
The lowest fee Electrum would allow was 0.1 mB.
Is that something in Electrum, or is all the talk about cheap microtransactions just more marketing BS?
10% doesn't sound cheap, especially for microtransactions.
The minimum fee, if a fee has to apply, is 0.0001 BTC and thats from the network and clients. There are rules when a fee has to be used. When the bitcoins are young on the sending address, when the transaction is very small and so on. The minimum fee is to prevent that the bitcoin network is attacked with millions of small transactions. I think when you wait until the bitcoins are some time on the sending address a transaction of 0.001 BTC should be possible without fee but i dont want to look the rules now. |
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...
Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
...
No. This would constitute criminal actions by Ukyo. Using the Weex funds, held in trust, elsewhere constitutes criminal action. At a guess, embezzlement probably best defines what it would be and you can even look up the jail terms involved. http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/embezzlement.htmI dont think that ukyo took it for personal gains. He always wrote he didnt take the bitcoins. Which means for me that the bitcoins cant be seized too since government cant take the bitcoins without ukyo giving them to them. Of course ukyo might see seizing not like he took the coins because they have them. The coins used at bitfunder never left weexchange so all funds used for trading were always in posession of the owner of these coins while ukyo only escrowed the coins. By the way... if the coins really were seized then i believe that later deposits would have been seized too. I dont believe that they seized and then let ukyo move on with other funds he received later. That doesnt sound correct for me. So seized coins sound unlikely to me. |
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Instead of talking shit for another 2 pages, has anyone claimed more then one allotment of btc from their weExchange accounts?
I withdraw the first amount a couple of weeks ago (less then 7% of the total balance), it really shouldn't be taking this long I would have thought.
No, everyone has only been able to withdraw 6.175% so far. Wild speculationAssuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder. All the coins could either have been seized or more likely Ukyo could have been ordered to hold them until the legal issue have been resolved. From IRC about two weeks ago: <nsa_> Are you able to say where the available coins came from btw? <kanoi> yes but he wont  <Ukyo> Kanoi is correct that this get's into issues where I have to tread very carefully. Those were paid out because I believed it was the right thing to do. Assuming that Ukyo is speaking the truth, it sounds like the dispersed coins were different to the unavailable coins in some way. Saying "I believed it was the right thing to do" makes it sound like he got into a bit of trouble by paying out those coins. Danny said that amount of available coin were 386 btc. There was about a month between Ukyo said "shit has hit the fan" and Danny making this statement. The deposit addresses had been removed from the site before that period, which means that the available coins probably isn't deposits made during that period. The available coins could come from the withdrawals made since bitfunder closed. 386btc is a quite small amount for an exchange but that makes sense because fewer people would deposit knowing that bitfunder was closed. It would also make sense that Ukyo would believe he could pay out those coins because they could not have been involved with bitfunder since it was already closed. Again, remember that the above is just speculation. I am not trying to justify anything. I am just trying to find the story that requires the least assumptions(Occam's razor). I am yet to find a scammer story with less assumptions. Its plain wrong that deposits werent possible anymore. Depositing to weexchange was possible all the time. It sounds very probably to me that those 386 coins + the ones paid out manually before are the coins deposited after all other coins were gone. That those were spread to all users even though they belonged to single persons directly might be not a big crime to some but to the owners of these coins for sure. In case of a court case thats how i will move since thats nothing a company is protecting against. Of course i dont know if thats the case but it sounds the most matching to me. A seizing or theft wont take some coins only and leave some behind. If its really seized then i wonder what ... person traded at bitfunder and then claimed he lost money because it was an illegal exchange. What a person... trying to get his loss paid by other users. But then again... this shouldnt be possible. The funds dont belong to bitfunder or weexchange. They are owned by their owners. So i doubt a court can decide that a trader that lost money on an exchange should be paid by the escrowed money that belongs to other users. Instead ukyo had to pay a fine but he couldnt pay it with users money. So i doubt that its seized. Because its not the funds of a company. The remaining possibilities would be stolen or ukyo made an error and sent all btc in error to someone. |
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Theres better a really good explaination why no one except a couple of persons are told the truth about the loss of bitcoins.
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