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5161  Economy / Economics / Re: Should the decimal place on bitcoins be shifted? on: May 26, 2011, 09:09:43 PM
I think it should be shifted two places to the right. This means that if bitcoin ever achieves trading parity with the US dollar, it would only need one more such shift, and if something only needs to be done twice, that's a good thing in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but one of us is confused.  Bitcoin crosses parity with the US $ months ago.
5162  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: The next difficulty level will make mining unprofitable. on: May 26, 2011, 08:33:08 PM
mining will ALWAYS be profitable, in the long term. once it becomes unprofitable, people will drop out, causing the difficultly to decrease, which will make it profitable again.
Even assuming that miners behave in a purely rational profit-seeking way, this statement is only true in a weak sense. What you should write is, "Mining will always be profitable, given that you possess hardware near the current top of the line in terms of mining efficiency." It's certainly not obvious that mining with a GPU will always be profitable, and even less obvious that buying a GPU to mine will always be profitable.

If you're trying to imply that current hobbyist miners have nothing to worry about, you're off the mark.

Mining will always be profitable, if you have already paid for your hardware and need to heat your space anyway.  Once again, anyone who lives in Iceland probably cannot be undercut by any miner who lives in Florida.

True. Iceland could so own this mining market if they wanted to. Cheap and plentiful geothermal energy!

And no other way to effectively export that energy to Europe where it's really needed.
5163  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: The next difficulty level will make mining unprofitable. on: May 26, 2011, 08:29:20 PM
mining will ALWAYS be profitable, in the long term. once it becomes unprofitable, people will drop out, causing the difficultly to decrease, which will make it profitable again.
Even assuming that miners behave in a purely rational profit-seeking way, this statement is only true in a weak sense. What you should write is, "Mining will always be profitable, given that you possess hardware near the current top of the line in terms of mining efficiency." It's certainly not obvious that mining with a GPU will always be profitable, and even less obvious that buying a GPU to mine will always be profitable.

If you're trying to imply that current hobbyist miners have nothing to worry about, you're off the mark.

Mining will always be profitable, if you have already paid for your hardware and need to heat your space anyway.  Once again, anyone who lives in Iceland probably cannot be undercut by any miner who lives in Florida.
5164  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 08:20:28 PM


I can be more civil, but why is it acceptable for some people to make vast sweeping blatantly inaccurate and false statements about people with whom they disagree politically or in terms of economic thought?


I let that slide because I figure that you can't really help that, and everyone has the right to be wrong.

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I have said repeatedly that I am not a socialist, but that I do not consider socialism an insult, in response I have been called a socialist anyway (as if socialists don't know whether they are socialists or not)

Amazingly, some do not.

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 and furthermore I've been told that I support the nature and the mismanagements of the government of Belarus. I do not support that, and it is deeply offensive to me for it to be suggested that I do. Why has this false accusation been leveled against me? Because I have said that government must be an agent of the community as a whole, because I have suggested that there is merit to the concept that we who live together in a society have common interests that it makes sense to pool resources in order to maintain.

This is merely to state my conception of the role of government, taxes, expenditure and society. It's a big fucking leap to conclude from that that I want government thugs to kick peoples doors down and drag away their stuff to spend it maintaining dead-beats and losers in the lap of luxury.


I'm sure that you sincerely believe that, but in reality it is a matter of degree.  If you accept that a legitimately elected government should have the power to take the resources necessary for survival from one group of people and give it to another group of people by use of the collective force of government, then the remainder is just a concern about under what conditions.  I'm sure that you would reject divine right as a legimitate justification for a nobility to impose their will upon the majority 'mobility' (yes, that's where we get "mob" from); but would you accept the results of a presumedly democratic elected congress doing something similar?  Why?  Because some special group that you agree with, desire to support, or identify with receives the benefits of that ruling?  I'm Cherokee, but wouldn't for the life of me want to live on a reservation for the side benefit of a $300 per month check and food stamps.  You probably wouldn't either, but would you argue in favor of continuing the practice for your cousins?  I would not, and do not.  The conditions that come with taxpayers' money pretty much promises that the mediocre remain where they are.

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This dire misrepresentation is not only completely unjustified, insulting to me and to the vast majority of working people that pay their taxes and benefit from the expenditure of those taxes in various ways at various times of their life. Therefore a vast majority of tax paying people would have to consider themselves the dead-beats and losers, stealing from... themselves I suppose.


Worse, from their own children.  It's not unjustified, as it can be demostrated as being economicly accurate.  You just don't see yourself as we see you.  That is understandable.  Everyone likes to think of themselves as the reasonable ones, as the moderate.  Few people ever question themselves or their own indoctrination.  The irony of all that, which I'm sure that you will reject out of hand, is that the various flavors of liberty minded are those few.  This is why there are so few of us in the political sphere to begin with.  There is no such thing as indoctrination for libertarians, it's contrary to governments of any sort to promote that.  If you attended a school in the US, public or private, you have been indoctrinated in the church of the state, as you have literally been institutionalized.

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If I were to say instead that I want to tear down all government on the grounds that "what survives is good" and proudly announce that I would be happy to watch children starve to death to uphold my principal against "welfare" and anyone who does not agree with this is a "socialist" and that all "socialists" basically support genocide andf hate freedom, this would be considered reasonable argument and not just "hateful rhetoric" where no attempt is made to understand how or why those that disagree with me hold their point of view..


If you want to say thinks generally about what you think libertarians want, go right ahead.  You are allowed to be wrong, but you have been intentionally antagonizing your opposition, not engaging in a debate.  I have no problem with you openly displaying your ignorance of your peers, no harm comes to me or others by that at all.
5165  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 05:57:19 PM
Intentionally skirting the line so that I don't censor you as well.  I can tell that you are practiced at antagonizing your opposition, but do you have a rational argument to present?  I won't let you continue with your own style of insults for much longer.

G seems to be presenting a rational argument, albeit one to which you are not receptive. Unless I am mistaken (please correct me if I am, G), he is suggesting that the deeply contradictory beliefs (on many levels) being espoused here are the result of years of indoctrination and confusion. That indoctrination, by its very design, is meant to keep people scared and isolated. To keep them confused. It is difficult to free oneself from this confusion, without some outside perspective.
At best, you and him are exposing an opinion about those you hold in opposition, and know next to nothing about how those you and him make assumptions about actually came to the opinions that they hold.  For myself, I was a true green as a young man, and my parents were real hippies.  I started to question the logic of the green and progressive movements on my own, and never even heard of Mises or Rothbard until those names were thrown at me by my father during an argument around 22 years old.  So I started to read, and then I was changed.  I never read Rand until I was 30 something, and thought it was okay, but I'm not a randian.

"If you are not a socialist at 20, then you have no heart; but if you are still a socialist at 40 then you have no sense."
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Let me quote one of the links posted by hazek:
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Ah: "privatization" as Greece is about to learn, the lovely word that describes a fire sale of assets to one's creditors, courtesy of a "globalized" new world order.

This is interesting. Hazek furnished us with an article which I presume was meant to bolster his assertion that unbridled capitalism is good. Yet, this article specifically ridicules a banker who calls for privatization, which again is one of the basic canons of the anarcho-capitalist religion. This seems to be deeply incongruous, and supports the assertion that hazek is, in some way, struggling to reconcile what he accepts a priori (unrestricted privatization is good) and what he observes (economic devastation resulting from unrestricted privatization).

Yes, you presumed, and failed to understand.  The banking systems of the Western world are not remotely privatized or 'deregulated'.  That's all BS.  It's never happened, and cannot happen, because the bankers own the government not the other way around.  That's the short answer.  Austrian economic thought (i.e. libertarian thought, praxeology) is incompatible with central banking.  Central banking is, by it's own definition, central control of the money markets.
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And this thread needs to split...

Not sure why. Just want to spread the topics around?

This topic is about politics, and no longer about Bitcoin or Spain.
5166  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 05:46:01 PM
Intentionally skirting the line so that I don't censor you as well.  I can tell that you are practiced at antagonizing your opposition, but do you have a rational argument to present?  I won't let you continue with your own style of insults for much longer.

G seems to be presenting a rational argument, albeit one to which you are not receptive. Unless I am mistaken (please correct me if I am, G), he is suggesting that the deeply contradictory beliefs (on many levels) being espoused here are the result of years of indoctrination and confusion. That indoctrination, by its very design, is meant to keep people scared and isolated. To keep them confused. It is difficult to free oneself from this confusion, without some outside perspective.

Let me quote one of the links posted by hazek:
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Ah: "privatization" as Greece is about to learn, the lovely word that describes a fire sale of assets to one's creditors, courtesy of a "globalized" new world order.

This is interesting. Hazek furnished us with an article which I presume was meant to bolster his assertion that unbridled capitalism is good. Yet, this article specifically ridicules a banker who calls for privatization, which again is one of the basic canons of the anarcho-capitalist religion. This seems to be deeply incongruous, and supports the assertion that hazek is, in some way, struggling to reconcile what he accepts a priori (unrestricted privatization is good) and what he observes (economic devastation resulting from unrestricted privatization).


I agree, the world view typified by hazek is so riddled with self-contradictions and faithfully regurgitated nonsense from the likes of the pitiful Ayn Rand or the cult-like Mises.org. I'm tempted to consider this 'Anarcho-Capitalism' as the new Fascism.

It is endorsed by a bewildered middle-class under pressure by a manipulative ruling class, resentful, fearful and contemptuous of the underclass, bamboozled by the obliquities of international finance, fetishistic of the primacy of the will and wishing to return to some idealized glorious past. All very similar in my humble opinion to the support given various fascist movements in the 1930's.

this is exactly what I am talking about.  There is no argument here, only hateful retoric.  You have a right to your opinion, but if you can't be more civil, you shall soon find yourself keeping your opinions to yourself.
5167  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin? on: May 26, 2011, 01:00:31 PM
I never implied anything about Glenn Beck. Fox news has great ratings and has the older Conservative demographic and have used that platform to help successfully turn Liberal into a bad word. I'm not bashing fox news and I actually like judge napolitano and bill o'reilly, they seem to be the smartest people on the network. Shepard Smith is great also.


Liberal was already a bad word long before Fox existed as a network, much less before Fox News did.
5168  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin? on: May 26, 2011, 12:58:34 PM
We could easily afford for everyone to have food, shelter, and healthcare if we weren't so busy throwing money down the toilet on bombs and bailouts.

This was a true statement as recently as 2006, but it is no longer true.  The US can no longer afford it's own social safety nets even if the entire military and war budgets were completely eliminated.
5169  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin? on: May 26, 2011, 12:56:16 PM
I like bitcoin because in the age of credit default swaps, naked short sells, derivatives, and currency manipulation, there is a community that thrusts a finger at the banksters and is trying to bring sanity back to commerce.

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Paul Krugman

LotR was a great story, AS only so-so.  Both stories existed to promote an ideology of the author, LotR was just more subtle.

And Paul Krugman is a racist.
5170  Other / Politics & Society / Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 12:48:55 PM
Hazek, that was way over the line.

I'm sorry but I lost it. Guy calls me inhumane while at the same time idiotically faithfully supporting ideas that have throughout our history always lead to the most inhumane consequences for a society that followed these same ideas.

I just couldn't help myself. Sorry again.

My beleif is that you are deeply confused and angered by a complex world you do not understand and resentful that you must share said world with other human beings.

Mises cannot help you though, you should abandon that rubbish.Sad

And as for you, you are pushing it.  Intentionally skirting the line so that I don't censor you as well.  I can tell that you are practiced at antagonizing your opposition, but do you have a rational argument to present?  I won't let you continue with your own style of insults for much longer.

And this thread needs to split...
5171  Other / Politics & Society / Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 12:37:28 PM
Hazek, that was way over the line.

I'm sorry but I lost it. Guy calls me inhumane while at the same time idiotically faithfully supporting ideas that have throughout our history always lead to the most inhumane consequences for a society that followed these same ideas.

I just couldn't help myself. Sorry again.

I understand the frustration of being talked down to about morals by someone who doesn't understand the logical conclusions of what he openly supports, and thinks himself educated enough to consider others to be irrational and uncaring while in reality he is the one who supports human suffering.  I really do.  But he knows not of what he speaks, while you do.  You must keep a cool head while using this forum.
5172  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin? on: May 26, 2011, 05:33:49 AM
At what point did the term change for the negative?


When the conservative election winning professionals blabbed about it to the uneducated fox news viewers.

In my experience, people who say stuff like this don't watch Fox News enough to even know anything useful about the network or their viewership.  Like those who blab about how crazy Glenn Beck is only know what he looks like from two minutes youtube outakes.
5173  Economy / Economics / Re: Fundamental Analysis of BTC, is BTC overvalued? on: May 26, 2011, 05:31:09 AM

Ok, if you want to get into monetary policy, then sure, the Fed is responsible for the amount of circulation.  They increase or decrease the amount based on a number of factors, but ultimately the GDP, i.e. the collective work of the US.  So yeah, your work creates dollars.

No, that work creates value that gives the dollars meaning.
5174  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Craigslist Posting on: May 26, 2011, 05:20:25 AM
I didn't do it, but it's an awesome plan.
5175  Economy / Economics / Re: Fundamental Analysis of BTC, is BTC overvalued? on: May 26, 2011, 05:18:43 AM
Ok, so what is a legitimate expectation of future value?  I posited a reasonable expectation in 2 months to be about 25 bucks for cost.  If the multiplier of 32 remains the same, this means in 2 months BTC will be 800 dollars? I don't think so.  I mean, I'd love it to be. I'm long on BTC, but I just don't see it happening.

I don't either, but nor did I see a 100 fold increase in value in eight months when I bought in at 6.5 cents.
5176  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Re: [ Neko Mimi Modo | An Ear Shop ] on: May 26, 2011, 05:11:48 AM
As usual, being my girlfriend, you can buy from her with the same confidence you'd have buying from me Smiley


To be clear, are you saying that you know her personally and will stake your own reputation on her trustworthiness?
5177  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Warning: Bitcoin4Cash trades cancelled! Won't do business with Madhatter again. on: May 26, 2011, 05:05:36 AM
For those who didn't dig deep into the news links, Canada Post workers could be striking as early as May 30.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/sports/122543553.html

Wait, aren't the postal workers in Canada civil servants?  Civil servants in the US can't strike, union or not.  Which is how Regan got away with firing all of the air traffic controllers when they went on strike in the 1980's.
5178  Other / Politics & Society / Belaraus (Re: Protests in Spain:) on: May 26, 2011, 04:59:56 AM
Hazek, that was way over the line.
5179  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin? on: May 26, 2011, 04:47:43 AM
Would the poster care to define the term 'liberal'?

It seems some Americans have twisted the definition. In the rest of the world economic liberalism is what American's call conservatism. Social conservatism is something like parenting. From my understanding of the terms, conservative implies content to preserve the status quo, tradition, tending not to change, and obedience to authority. Where as liberal, sharing the same root as liberty and libertarian, stands for freedom, generosity, and equal rights. Liberals rejected hereditary status, established religion, and monarchy in favour of the rule of law and fundamental rights to life, liberty, and property. At what point did the term change for the negative?


Sometime after the death of FDR, the "progressive" movement that characterized the entire first half of the last century in the United States was discredited as having largely been co-opted by socialists.  Following this, these same socialist-lite progressives altered the public image during the next several decades by taking the term 'liberal' from what was once the libertarians of the day.  The liberty minded liberals of the 1900's and earlier are often called "classical liberals" today, and that means roughly the same thing as the term "libertarian" in the modern lexicon; which is a word that was made up in the 1970's because 'social progressives' had distorted the term in the view of the US political context.  So when you hear someone from the United States say "liberal" or "progressive" in a political context, Europeans can safely hear "socialist" and be pretty close.  Although Europeans are not likely to look at Obama and think that he compares with the socialists or progressives in European politics, this is because Obama can only do so much without severe political backlash and not a fundamental difference in ideology.

However, your understanding of "conservative" in the US context is also a bit wrong.  Generally speaking, a "conservative" in the US political context is not someone who wishes to 'preserve' the status quo, but a 'fascist lite'.
5180  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What happens if this hardware crunch keeps going? on: May 25, 2011, 10:29:16 PM
The miners are responding to the rise in the market price of Bitcoin.  If the price stalls, so will the rise in difficulty.  If the price falls, the difficulty will slowly drop off to meet it.  Changes in difficulty tend to follow changes in price with a 6 week lag.
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