Bitcoin Forum
June 17, 2024, 10:26:35 AM *
News: Voting for pizza day contest
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 ... 192 »
521  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Politics does not matter. Only power. on: August 10, 2013, 03:38:54 AM
Do you even understand how the standard supply and demand curve breaks down for certain natural resources?
Ya. And?

Supply is finite, demand is infinite, the supply/demand curve intersect at the market clearing price. What's your point?

Do you subscribe to the theory that as a resource dwindles, it's price goes up to the point that it will be conserved due to its high price?
522  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Politics does not matter. Only power. on: August 10, 2013, 03:34:47 AM
You're not just biased. By sourcing your learning as you are, you're denying yourself a complete picture of the world. Now, if you wish to provide a well formed argument against what I have said in the last few posts, I will be glad to point out the deficiencies in your thought processes.

Are we on an episode of the Twilight Zone? I already pointed out to you why it's wrong to state that Capitalism destroys natural resources.

You're begging the question, "How is your system any better?" It's fine to look at a scarce resource and say, "This resource is scarce.", but you a haven't made the case that;

1.) It should be used less.
2.) Reducing its use by coercion is actually possible.
3.) It can be used in a better way.
4.) You're qualified to make such a judgement.

Do you even understand how the standard supply and demand curve breaks down for certain natural resources?
523  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Politics does not matter. Only power. on: August 10, 2013, 03:22:54 AM
Stop pulling material from your favorite libertarian site and start focusing on educating yourself instead. You can't think clearly, independently, or objectively if you continue to source your learning from biased thinking.

Translation: "I don't agree with you, so you must be biased. Excuse me while I don't read any opposing argument presented to me."

You're not just biased. By sourcing your learning as you are, you're denying yourself a complete picture of the world. Now, if you wish to provide a well formed argument against what I have said in the last few posts, I will be glad to point out the deficiencies in your thought processes.
524  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Politics does not matter. Only power. on: August 10, 2013, 03:10:36 AM
Free market forces guarantee picking the lowest hanging fruit until near the point of exhaustion.

What are you even talking about? Do you propose a system that first picks the highest hanging fruit? Do you like working just for the sake of work?

Economic calculation has determined that the value gained by "irreversibly" changing an object outweighs the cost of the landfill and the cost of making said object. Why is your judgement any better than the free market? Why are you any better at allocating resources over those people that actually work and specialize in their relevant industries, that make these decisions every day?



Stop pulling material from your favorite libertarian site and start focusing on educating yourself instead. You can't think clearly, independently, or objectively if you continue to source your learning from biased thinking.
525  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Politics does not matter. Only power. on: August 10, 2013, 02:34:41 AM
Tell me how Capitalism wastes resources, and how they're always in it for sure term gains at the expense of future generations.

Are you serious? You can't figure this one out on your own? Free market forces guarantee picking the lowest hanging fruit until near the point of exhaustion. But the real problem is where free market zealots can't distinguish between natural resources which undergo irreversible transformation upon consumption and products which are manufactured from sustainable resources. One behaves according to the econ 101 supply and demand curve, and the other does not.

Here's some advice: stop treating your favorite libertarian playbook as if it were your bible, and start learning about the dynamics of resources and consumption.
526  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 09, 2013, 09:19:04 PM
What's the difference between tax evasion and failure to pay taxes?

You don't know?

Tax evasion is lying about what you owe.
527  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 09, 2013, 01:16:54 AM
You're an idiot because:

1. You think you have a point, but don't.
2. You're actually wrong about the specific complaint you have.
3. You're the one who didn't know about any of this stuff until I pointed it out, but you try and act like you did.

Read my long post again, and try to comprehend it - I know it must be hard for you. And read the recent link I provided so won't keep acting like an idiot.

1. You're an idiot because you think your post has a point, but it's just a huge waste of time in relation to these discussions
2. My complaint was that killing wolves disrupts the cascade, not eliminates it, and your post says nothing about the means of protecting environment ecosystems, just about how they work.
3. All this crap was covered in highschool oceanography and lowest level university geology class, so yes, I knew it.

I was pissed off, because I wasted such a long time reading your whole post, waiting to read something new or relevant, but it didn't answer anything about who should be responsible for protecting things, why it should be them, or how. It's basically a nature lesson, and the whole post can be summarized as:

Nature is complicated, therefore government is needed, because...

Apologies for disrupting the discussion.

Thank you for that work of fiction. See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268056.msg2893060#msg2893060
528  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 08, 2013, 07:26:51 PM
Oh my god you're a fucking idiot trying to find something wrong with material you have no understanding of.

Hey, I'm not the one who said that removing one of the components of the trophic cascade removes the whole cascade itself.

You're an idiot because:

1. You think you have a point, but don't.
2. You're actually wrong about the specific complaint you have.
3. You're the one who didn't know about any of this stuff until I pointed it out, but you try and act like you did.

Read my long post again, and try to comprehend it - I know it must be hard for you. And read the recent link I provided so won't keep acting like an idiot.
529  Other / Off-topic / Re: fried cat videos and pictures on: August 08, 2013, 04:16:06 PM
I'll pass.
530  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 08, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
Just in case you wondered what the financial situation of McDonalds is:

Total revenues: 27567 million $
Net income: 5464 million $
2012 Annual Report.pdf

Looks like they can afford to pay a little more.

Pay who? Pay the low wage workers? Pay for what? They don't deserve it, if they wanted they could spend their time doing business instead of whacking it off to hentai and watching Breaking Bad or whatever teenagers are doing these days, their net income is 5464 million $ and they deserve every cent, taking even a dollar from their net income forcefully would reduce them to slavery.

You deserve a living wage if you work, period.

why? what if i do a piss poor job? what if my employer asks me to pick up all of the sticks in his yard and i walk at like 1/10th of a mile per hour. instead of picking up 10 sticks and carrying them to the bin i pick up 1 and carry it to the bin then walk back into the yard and pick up 1 more. what if my work is creating significantly less value than is required to sustain my person? why am i entitled to more compensation than my labor is worth? where is this money supposed to come from? it necessarily must come from someone elses surplus productivity, why does that person owe me anything?

its easy to make generalizations like "everyone is entitled to a living wage" but you have to remember that employers are not forced to hire people. if you raise the price of a thing people will purchase less of it. if grocery stores raise the price of peanuts people will purchase fewer peanuts. if the government raises the price of labor than people will purchase less of it.

consider that what you probably really want is for everyone to have their basic needs taken care of, i.e. food water clothing shelter. if this really what you want, like i suspect it is, than a minimum wage would only accomplish the opposite of this goal. sometimes the most destructive actions are taken unwittingly in the pursuit of noble ends, like supporting a minimum wage for the right reasons with out understanding the economics of the situation.

If I knew for a certainty that a man was coming to my house with the conscious design of doing me good, I should run for my life. -Henry David Thoreau

Once again, the poster boy for those who don't listen speaks.

1. If you're just plain bad and slow at your job, nobody is advocating any type of wage. But if you do your job well at, say fast food, for 40 hours a week, you deserve a decent wage. Such a job may not require a degree, but that doesn't mean it isn't work.

2. As for your arguments about raising the cost of burgers, that's dependent on how the business is structured, and there are businesses which pay a decent wage, make better burgers than the competition, and charge less. If you can't compete with those businesses, maybe you shouldn't be in business.
531  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 08, 2013, 06:30:07 AM
If you're one of those arguing for property rights sans regulations, you really need to formulate your arguments against the material presented in a post I made some time ago, but bears repeating, apparently, over and over. I quote the post verbatim here.

Content of post follows, including quoted remarks from the person I was responding to:

Sorry, but that post is pretty much trash. Aside from apparently not understanding what a trophic cascade is (you said  "Their [the wolf's] elimination resulted in a deleterious effect on the ecosystem services, due to the removal of a trophic cascade effect." when the result is actually an exacerbation NOT elimination of the trophic cascade, which results larger than normal ripples and damages multiple ecosystems in the cascade) the extremely TL;DR post said pretty much absolutely nothing about how it's best to preserve such environmental structures. All you have done is claim, as part of your opinion or wish, that such structures should be preserved, with no reason as to why, and much of the methods you have mentioned have been and are used by private property owners, as well as public.
So please stop pointing to that text as if it's some sort of a great argument for government-based environmental protection. It's not. It's a waste of people's time, masked in big words and oversized paragraphs.

Oh my god you're a fucking idiot trying to find something wrong with material you have no understanding of. I'm not even going to waste my time with someone like you. See here: http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/trophic-cascades-across-diverse-plant-ecosystems-80060347

Please, move to Somalia already.
532  Other / Off-topic / Re: Movies you really want to see but haven't been able to yet on: August 08, 2013, 06:25:48 AM
So I just watched The Spirit of the Beehive. I'll definitely be thinking about this one for a day or two, at the very least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FvNxzgS6to
533  Other / Off-topic / Re: Movies you really want to see but haven't been able to yet on: August 08, 2013, 03:34:09 AM
Just found this thread, it's too late to go through them now but there looks some good stuff on here.

I thought I'd seen a lot if films, but probably only seen about 20 or so of what you've posted. I've got a feeling my DVD rental list is gonna be going up after going through these.

Cheers.

Well, thanks for taking an interest. But will you actually be able to find most of those on my list via DVD rental? A lot of those films remain unwatched so far due to availability. But I will say this: they all fit some criteria such as being highly acclaimed, or being a lesser known film by a critically acclaimed director.

Now, I don't fuck around with my movie recommendations. Follow my advice in the next paragraph if you haven't already seen the ones listed below. A whole world will open up for you.

If you found any on the big list in the first post interesting for whatever reason, then what you really need to do is go after the easier to obtain and better distributed films by the directors whose films are on the list. Some recommendations of films I have seen, which inspired the list:

Yi Yi, possibly one of the greatest films you'll ever watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F6tSorwYqw

Chungking Express, a good first film to watch by Wong Kar-Wai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBqHAPgB494

Sansho the Bailiff, a very very very very important film in the history of cinema and hugely acclaimed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=076MrMynyak

When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, a collaboration between director Mikio Naruse and the great actress Hideko Takamine, which will lead you to many other fine Naruse films: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooW3aSKfsVA

Late Spring, recently voted the 15th greatest film ever made, and a fine collaboration between Yasujiro Ozu and the wonderful actress Setsuko Hara. I don't have a trailer or clip that I'd like to share, so instead I'll share this fine clip from another Ozu/Hara film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF3Gz66P2zQ

Pale Flower, a nihilistic journey down the path of self destruction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOOr4nuWFqU

Twenty-four Eyes, one of the greatest anti-war films ever, and starring the wonderful Hideko Takamine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWNl2IbVJMs

They're all Asian, you say? Well, if you're saying that, then what you're really saying is you have the wrong take on what Asian cinema has to offer, thinking it's something it's not. But don't despair, for you will find some non Asian offerings in the lest below.

Here are some easier to find films on the list that I have now watched, or I can vouch for them as being much loved:

The Spirit of the Beehive
The Devil's Backbone
The Vertical Ray of the Sun
Ivan's Childhood
Cruel Story of Youth
Badlands
Marketa Lazarova
534  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 08, 2013, 02:27:40 AM
For example, don't say I'm "arguing against my own raise" when I never received a raise, nor asked or demanded for one.  Care to try again?

Have you considered asking for a pay cut? You did admit you're under qualified. Consider it.

I admit I'm under-qualified on paper.

I believe I'm overqualified in terms of competence and ability.

And, in fact I actually did take a (voluntary) pay cut to the tune of about $5,000 in order to allow for extra money to be funneled directly towards patient care.  That $5,000 was (originally) specifically allotted for my salary.

Now, if I really wanted to brag or believed that I was some pinnacle of moral enlightenment, don't you think that might have been the first thing I said?  You should probably be feeling like a dumbass right about now.

I'm a very humble person and I don't like to brag about my skills, sacrifices, or accomplishments.  But, when you challenge my skills, my accomplishments, my intelligence, my conduct, or my professionalism in my field of work, I will illuminate your ignorance so you can see it a bit more clearly.

Hmm.

I'm just not getting a hint of those illuminations here in this thread. Perhaps they are dimmer than you think?
535  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 07, 2013, 08:08:55 PM
For example, don't say I'm "arguing against my own raise" when I never received a raise, nor asked or demanded for one.  Care to try again?

Have you considered asking for a pay cut? You did admit you're under qualified. Consider it.
536  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 07, 2013, 07:37:26 PM
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

That's why I said this:
Quote
This is good for every PERSON, just not big corporations bottom line--which we all know to be the bane of our existence today.

William Binney said it best the other day I was listening to him talk: "We are no longer a country with a government, we are a government with a country."


How would earning less in real terms be good for any person?

If you think inflation is a good thing, you haven't been reading around this forum enough.

Forget inflation. Fast food personnel can get paid more without changing the price of fast food.
537  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 07, 2013, 07:36:39 PM
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

If everyone in the States got bumped to $15 and I'm sitting at $35/hour, do you think I'm not going to ask for a raise as well? My skills are still just as valuable in relationship to the minimum wage.

Congratulations, you just became too expensive and your job has been sent overseas/your company went bust/You got bought out in an aggressive merger and everyone in the company got laid off.

Fast food service jobs aren't going overseas.

And how many times do I have to tell you that the fast food industry can trim the fat from other areas of their operation. And furthermore, as I've said, when the free lunch of cheap wages are gone, they'd actually have to create a desirable product, such as that of In-n-Out.
538  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Entitlement Mentality on: August 07, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
If they can strike, more power to them.

Agreed.

Quote
Maybe it will weed out the fast food restaurants that aren't popular due to crummy food. In-n-Out pays well above minimum wage to start, and they do quite well, because they offer a superior product.

I'm struggling to find the relevance here.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  In-n-Out is tasty though Smiley

Quote
Maybe you shouldn't be bitching about what other workers seek in the world, but instead about the idea that any business should succeed, even if they produce a lousy product.

My issue is more with the idea that my intuition tells me that this is an inefficient use of the strikers' time.  I don't have a problem with people striking, but consider the following: the last time this happened, McDonald's workers in the area got a 10 cent raise.  This means that if a worker was to go on strike for a single day, it would take >500 hours or about 3 months of working for that 10 cent raise to earn them back their lost wages.  I wonder what percentage of those workers receiving that 10 cent raise remained employed for at least three months after the fact.

On a side note, ever drive through bumper-to-bumper traffic and realize the only reason the traffic jam is there is because some group is protesting about something you don't care about?  When it starts affecting (objectively) the flow of my day, that's when I feel inclined to give my input.

Quote
And don't pull the line about how it's going to make lunch prices go up. In-n-Out offers a soda, a delicious cheeseburger and delicious fries (all from fresh ingredients trucked to the store daily) for about $5.00.

I wasn't even thinking it.

Quote
It's not the workers' fault here. It's businesses which choose not to streamline their process and offer a superior product and service that are at fault.

To me, this isn't an issue about placing blame. Rather, I see it as a failure-to-adapt problem.  Let me be clear first off by stating that I would never even propose a dichotomy of "workers' fault vs. employers' fault."  Instead, to me, the situation appears as follows:

There are some fast food workers who are dissatisfied with either pay, working conditions, or both.  Three things are absolutely certain:  1) They applied for their current job on their own free will, 2) there were preexisting factors or conditions that led them to decide to apply for their current job, and 3) they currently have other options to choose from, and striking is at least one of those options.

I simply believe that out of the options available to them, striking is not an optimal one.  Of course this is all my opinion.


Quote
Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

I think all you need to do is look in the mirror to see half the problems with the world you present. Calling someone entitled, yet you pretty much have come on here to flaunt your (non confirmable) success.

That said, $15/hr is chump change--the fact that you started out with this after having a degree shows me you are still young (as am I, but have no degree, and have been making nearly double that wage since I was 20 with no degree--and to this day, quite some years later still no degree...)

I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline, as it forces companies to re-evaluate how people are paid throughout the entire structure of the company. You are essentially arguing against your own raise by hating on people trying to raise the federal minimum wage. If everyone in the States got bumped to $15 and I'm sitting at $35/hour, do you think I'm not going to ask for a raise as well? My skills are still just as valuable in relationship to the minimum wage. This is good for every PERSON, just not big corporations bottom line--which we all know to be the bane of our existence today.

I'm not usually one for throwing rocks, especially at individuals, but it blows me away that you are so dense as to not see it. It's simple math and basic economics.

Though you did get a degree, so you did sit through quite a bunch of brainwash and American propaganda...that might explain this whole tantrum. Smiley

Not only that, but consider:

If people make $15 an hour, minimum, they're less likely to go down the road of crime, are better able to purchase services and goods from those business owners who want to make more revenue, are more likely to enable education for themselves or their children, are less likely to not have insurance...

In short, society benefits.
539  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 07, 2013, 04:57:38 PM
As soon as someone brings property rights sans regulations into the argument, as it always happens around here, the proponents of such fail to make a case, but earnestly believe that they have made a case, precisely because of their ignorance.

Knowledge is key.

If you're one of those arguing for property rights sans regulations, you really need to formulate your arguments against the material presented in a post I made some time ago, but bears repeating, apparently, over and over. I quote the post verbatim here.

Content of post follows, including quoted remarks from the person I was responding to:

Well, that was part of my point. In many places, endangered species aren't allowed to be owned. So, people poach to get them, and if they poach, they aren't going to be too concerned about taking care of the herds.

Ideally, the fact that animals are roaming on what's considered public property shouldn't prevent people from being able to round up and own them.

Still though, if some problem beyond elimination of a species was actually FirstAscent's concern, I'd like to hear it.

Okay, so let's go a little bit more in depth.

This one is something I'm surprised still has legs: the idea that declaring a species off-limits (or as belonging to "the commons") helps it to survive.

There's no shortage of cows or chickens. No one holds protests with signs saying "Save the Corn!"

When people are allowed to have ownership of a thing, and have a free market where they can profit from said thing, and have no guarantee of a bailout or entitlement should they screw up, then they have every incentive to manage their property well enough to continue profiting. When it comes to animals & plants, that generally means managing them well enough that they continue to reproduce more.

There are a number of flaws in your assumptions. We can walk through this.

To begin with, many species do not reproduce well in captivity. It took 112 years to yield a successful Sumatran rhino calf. Furthermore, poachers are simply not likely to expend such efforts, even if sanctioned, as it's much more profitable to simply poach, i.e. go out into the wild and kill. One need only look at the case of shark fins to understand the cost dynamics. Secondly, you are failing to acknowledge the public backlash in breeding megafauna for the cruel purpose of maiming (or in the case of pelts) killing the animal.

Before we go on, let's enumerate some well known cases of poaching:

- Gorillas for bushmeat
- Elephants for ivory
- Sumatran rhino for their horns
- Sharks for shark fins
- Tigers (and other big cats) for their pelts

Cattle are not killed for their horns or hooves alone. Cattle is an industry, and it does not analogize well. Most of the public accept the cattle industry. Most of the public do not accept killing animals which are endangered for specific parts, usually decorative. All of a cattle's parts are used when killed. This includes muscle tissue, organs, bones, hides and hooves. As an example, did you know that gummy bears are made from cow hooves?

I can sense that at this point, you might feel poised to counter some of the points I've made, and if you took one or two individually, you might feel that you'd have a case. But we haven't even begun, as I haven't yet shared with you what the real reason is for why I declared your statement to be based on false assumptions.

So let's begin. Some of the following material is derived from posts I have written in the past, but I think it will have greater effect if I merge it together here with a few edits and additions. Please read it through thoroughly.

Ever heard of the Spotted Owl and the controversy surrounding it? What was all that about?

The Spotted Owl is a top level predator in the northwest. It was declared an umbrella species (otherwise known as a keystone or flagship species), and listed as endangered. The timber industry had an issue with this. Here's why. The purpose of listing the Spotted Owl as an umbrella species was because in order to preserve the Spotted Owl population, the old growth forests in the northwest would have to be preserved as well. That meant the timber industry would not be allowed to harvest existing old growth forests.

Why are old growth forests important? Because they offer what are called ecosystem services. Secondary growth forests do not offer all those ecosystem services, nor at the same level that the old growth forests do. And that's it in a nutshell. It has been demonstrated that the Spotted Owl can live in secondary growth forests, but it cannot viably breed in secondary growth forests.

Thus, species such as the Spotted Owl are declared umbrella species to act as a protective umbrella for their respective environments as a way to protect those environments in perpetuity, because once they're all gone, the possibility of regaining all those ecosystem services that those ecosystems provide is pretty much nil.

Biodiversity, it's very definition, implies diversity, which arises from the existence of thousands, tens of thousands of species within any given ecosystem. This then results in the ecosystem being able to provide its services, known collectively as ecosystem services. The goal is to protect biodiversity by protecting ecosystems. A general technique for doing so is to declare a top level species within its respective ecosystem as endangered (because it is endangered or will become extinct if its ecosystem is destroyed) as an umbrella species. The ecosystem is then preserved under the umbrella of the umbrella species. This protects biodiversity.

Myrkul provided an example of relocating the Scimitar Oryx to a Texan hunting preserve as an example of species preservation, but it is not a case of protecting biodiversity.

As long as we don't disrupt natural ecosystems, they will provide everything listed below:

- Freshwater supply and flood control
- Generation and maintenance of soils
- Ocean flood protection
- Natural pest control
- Amelioration of the weather
- The cycling of nutrients
- Pollination of plants

The Millennium Ecosystem Assessment, published in 2005, breaks it down like this:

Supporting Services:

- Nutrient cycling
- Soil formation
- Primary production
- Preservation of genetic resources

Regulating services:

- Climate amelioration
- Flood control
- Agricultural pest control
- Water purification

Provisioning services:

- Food
- Timber and fiber
- Fresh water
- Fuel

Cultural services:

- Esthetic
- Spiritual
- Educational
- Recreational

Other disruptive effects to the ecosystem services enumerated above include harvesting resources (collateral damage), toxic waste, atmospheric pollution, garbage waste, over harvesting (fish), pesticides, noise, etc.

What disrupts the above?

Reduction in the number of top level predators. Top level predators, such as raptors, wolves, cats, etc. regulate the ecosystem by preventing overgrazing of vegetation, which plays a role in providing habitat to the smaller organisms, all the way down to the microscopic level, which in turn plays a role in nutrient cycling, water purification, soil formation, etc. In other words, top level predators ultimately affect the health of the entire ecosystem. This process, where top level species affect the environment as a cascading effect are known collectively as trophic cascades.

As an example, let's examine the case of wolves. Numerous species of wolves were eradicated in the twentieth century (by cattle ranchers, incidentally). As it turns out, it was determined that they played a role within the dynamics of the ecosystems. Their elimination resulted in a deleterious effect on the ecosystem services, due to the removal of a trophic cascade effect.

When in the presence of wolves, ungulates generally do not browse in riparian zones. Riparian zones are the areas of rich vegetation along the banks of streams, creeks and rivers. The reason ungulates do not browse in such areas when wolves are present is because their escape route is hindered by the slopes of the river bank, the body of water itself, and the denser vegetation. When wolves are removed, ungulates in general decimate the vegetation in these riparian zones, which in turn results in habitat loss for numerous species, typically beginning with rodents, and cascading all the way down to the microscopic level, where numerous species exist within the soil. This loss of habitat within the riparian zones results in a huge loss of ecosystem services, including nutrient cycling, soil formation, flood control and water purification

Edge effects are another disrupting process to ecosystems and the ecosystem services they provide. Typically, property ownership is the cause. The fracturing of an ecosystem disrupts its viability, by inhibiting migration, reducing territorial area needed by top level predators (see above), and this ultimately reduces biodiversity, which reduces genetic information, a resource required for medicine, material science, engineering, computer science, etc.

Edge effects are a direct result of ecosystem fracturing, which will be defined and discussed. There is a whole cascade of effects and interrelated issues that apply here. They are:

- The importance of wildlife corridors
- The dangers of ignorance
- Exploitation via corporations
- Lack of regulation
- Solutions via private enterprise
- Habitat loss
- Information loss
- Bioproductivity loss
- Natural capital
- Water quality
- Trophic cascades
- Policies

The list goes on. And on.

The whole substrate upon which humanity, society, and life depend on begin in the soil and water (essentially our planet), as nourished by the incoming sunlight from above.

Here's a thought for you: the very complex systems which naturally occur within the soil and above the soil define everything we have to support ourselves and they define everything we have available to educate ourselves (outside cosmology and related fields). There is more going on here than you think. Humanity thus far has been built from those systems, but humanity itself is also depleting, fracturing (and thus destroying) the very systems which allowed it to come this far.

Edge effects: What are they? Imagine a parcel of land that is fairly large and of a particular shape, mostly undisturbed. Let's say it's unspoiled rainforest. We'll begin with a circle 100 miles in diameter.

The circle: A circle 100 miles in diameter has an edge that is 314 miles long. It's area is a little more than 7,500 miles. The ratio of area/edge is 7,500/314 which equals about 24.

The fractal shape: A fractal shape with an area of 7,500 miles but with a ragged edge that is 1,000 miles long has a ratio of area/edge of 7,500/1,000 which equals 7.5.

Among the two shapes described above, each say being a rainforest ecosystem, the circle will generally be healthier and more viable. What does this mean? The circle, will in general, be richer in all of the following:

- Number of species
- Lower extinction rate
- More nutrients within the soil
- Lesser vulnerability to drought, heat, cold, etc.
- More information, complexity and potential knowledge to be discovered within
- Greater productivity within: (i.e ability to nourish, support and grow)
- Ability to support larger fauna

A circle was used above as an example. One could just as easily substitute a square instead and get similar results. Therefore, consider a square 100 miles on a side. It has a ratio of area/edge of 10,000/400 which equals 25.

Assuming that square contains rainforest (but it could just as easily be another type of ecosystem), let's now fracture it. We'll turn it into a checkerboard of 64 black and white squares. Black are rainforest squares. White are squares burned to remove the trees, and then tilled for agriculture.

Our total area of rainforest within the checkerboard is now half what it was. The original square contained 10,000 square miles of rainforest. It now contains 5,000 square miles of rainforest. But look at the change in rainforest edges. The original square had only 400 miles of rainforest edge. The checkerboard has 1,600 miles of rainforest edge.

And so we can get a sense of the difference between these two extents of land. Recall that the unspoiled square had 10,000 square miles of rainforest and total edges measuring 400 miles with a ratio of 25. Look at the ratio of the fractured checkerboard to get a sense of how less rich its potential is. It's ratio is 5,000/1,600 which equals 3.125.

Compare the two numbers: 25 vs. 3.125.

What are some cases which cause edge effects?

Repurposing of land: Examples include agriculture, urban and suburban sprawl, etc.

Clearcutting: Clearcutting by the timber industry creates edge effects. Make no mistake about it - the ecosystem has been changed, and replanting of trees will not revert the area back to the original ecosystem in a period equal to the time it takes for the newly planted trees to mature. The original forest was an old growth forest, and when the newly planted trees finally mature, the resulting forest will be a secondary growth forest, which does not provide the same environment as the original old growth forest.

Roads: Going back to the circle example, if a road is placed through the center, then an edge effect is created. Depending on the type of road and how busy it is, the effect is dramatic. Essentially, you end up with two areas, each half the area of the original circle, and each area having an edge length not much less than the original circle. This is one of the reasons (among many) why there is such opposition to the idea of drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. It's not just the idea of potential damage from oil spills (which is real), but the road systems which would need to be built to access the enterprise.

Fences: Land left in its natural state, but fenced, also creates an edge effect. A very damaging example would be the fence proposed along the U.S./Mexico border by certain politicians.

That's a start. Let me know when you want more, as there is plenty more...
540  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Socialism on: August 07, 2013, 04:45:17 PM
...Obviously scale is relevant, but we're not talking orders of magnitude here. 12.5% is impressive considering the powers that governments have!
...

This is the first time i'm hearing these stats, what do they mean, exactly?

bitlancr claims that private property owners account for 12.5 percent of nature conservation. That begs the question where the other 87.5 percent comes from. Funny that he gloats over the idea that apparently the 12.5 percent is all that is necessary.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 ... 192 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!