James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?
rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman. All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors. I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more. I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group. We need to explore other options. The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can! We need to get someone on it asap. Maybe we should have a bounty list somewhere, we need to post link to all open bounties easily. The mixing solution will get at least 2Mil Nxt, that should be attractive to someone. Just make a directed donation to NXTcommunityfund, specify NXTcash klee has pledge 1 million NXT so far. Since I am working on NXTcash, I have to abstain from allocating any payouts to myself from any directed donations for NXTcash, somebody else will need to authorize my getting any part of NXTcommunityfund NXTcash donations. James P.S. Of course, anybody can make a directed donation to me whenever they want  |
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If BCNext likes what you are doing, you will get added to NXT credits API!
BCNext likes every attempt to review his ideas. I will present a proposal on NXT core change that will give NXT fundamentally more value and allow it to become platform for all types of new functionality. Like Internet protocol did. First, I want to make sure I at least understand the current expected implementation of NXT VM (Turing scripts) as to what it is able to do. My understanding is that it will be able to access the "entire state of NXT blockchain", so aliases, AM, etc. anything that is in the blockchain, it can access. With the concept of externally pushing down into an AM any additional data needed, the input side for the NXT VM seems well covered. It is the output side that I am concerned with. I believe as it stands now, it will be able to send NXT and save an AM. My proposal is based on this limitation. If this is all that NXT VM can do, it means that ANY OTHER side effect of NXT VM cannot be trustless nor decentralized. For clarity, let's say "side effect" is to send and email. I choose this example as I assume it is possible to send an email using Java with little effort and jean-luc won't yell at me about making him do horrible things to the code. The NXT core email SMTP side effect, can generate a hash on the contents and recipient of the email and use that for TXID to be put into NXT email blockchain (or even main blockchain). The importance of something being in the blockchain is that it can be validated by all on the network. The importance of being implemented in the NXT core is that it is the only way for it to be able to be trusted. So, using the above mechanism, any side effect that can be implemented into the NXT core can implement a decentralized and trustless solution that is controlled by the NXT VM script. However, one problem that I see is that there is no assurance that the NXT VM's output AM is going to be parsed properly and the NXT smtp invoked. Without a way to assure a once and only once invocation of "side effect" that we can rely on being used, the power of NXT VM is limited to the self-enclosed NXT universe. On the other hand, if we can ensure that "side effects" that are supported by NXT core do in fact get executed, it opens up vast new possibilities. VAST! I want to take it one step further by having a NXT-plugin architecture defined. There are just some things that even I wouldn't want shoved into the NXT core, let alone jean-luc! So, we need a way to ensure that such external plugins are executed once and only once (similar to double spend problem). I imagine that not all NXT nodes will have support for all external plugins, but as long as the NXT hubs (> 100 servers) can run these external plugins, then I believe it will work. So, finally here is my attempt at utilizing TF for this as so far it has been pretty mechanical. Assuming that the vast majority of forging is done by NXT nodes with a full set of external plugins, then within a reasonable number of blocks, the plugin will get invoked. We can use TF to see how many blocks we need to wait for the first forged block that is on a node capable of executing the external plugin! This is SUPER useful, since otherwise we would need to try to invoke the plugin, wait for error and then retry. MUCH better if we minimized errors in the first place. I hope this is close to what BCNext is looking for? Generalizing, for any plugin functionality there needs to be a way to invoke it once and only once and a way to verify it on all other nodes. For hardcoded plugins, we avoid the whole verification process. If there is a way for the NXTcore to get a read only pointer to the memory space of the plugin code space, the NXT core can add a function to verify the hash of the code space to verify that it is still running an unmodified version since the published source code of that plugin. So, maybe we just need to memory map the plugin and find its code, hopefully not too hard to do. Verification that the plugin has not been modified goes a long way to preventing Evil Bob from changing the code that implements the plugin. If the plugin code cannot be changed and it is correlated to published source code, then maybe even skeptics can trust that the NXT plugins will always do what they are supposed to. [I avoid discussion of proper error handling within the plugin as that is specific to each plugin] So, at the very least the hardcoded plugin will allow NXT VM to affect the world outside the NXT blockchain and this is the key to being able to implement DAC. If we can make NXT plugins secure and verifiable, then NXT will be the first platform that allows anybody to create new functionality that is decentralized and can operate without trust by simply defining a "side effect" and a way to verify the side effect was actually done. Combine this with Transparent Forging's ability to predict the future forging nodes, allows a subset of NXT infrastructure to perform the plugins work. Needless to say, achieving the above will make NXT like the Internet was when the only thing you could do was email. Order of magnitude increase in the utility is probably a gross underestimate. James |
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If BCNext likes what you are doing, you will get added to NXT credits API!
BCNext likes every attempt to review his ideas. If he likes "attempt" then I have attempted a LOT! Just havent felt like I truly understand it well enough to be able to analyze it, let alone develop new ideas. My hope is that I will be able to present specific functionality that can only be properly implemented using TF. Even if I cant understand TF fully, I hope that it will spur others who do to figure out how to properly implement the new functionality. James |
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James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?
rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman. All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors. I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more. I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group. We need to explore other options. The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can! |
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Here is my idea for avoiding blockchain bloat while doing 1000TPS. I am surprised nobody mentioned this, so it is either because it is a really bad idea for some reason, or too obvious nobody bothered??
From my understanding, it will be possible to have regular snapshots of the entire state of the NXT blockchain so that you wont need to parse all the blocks from genesis.
Secondly, very little of this "entire state of NXT" data has a life beyond 1440 blocks.
So, my proposal is to generate a daily snapshot, peer reviewed by nodes, checksummed, fingerprinted, signatured, whatever we need to make sure it is a valid unmolested snapshot. We actually dont even need these snapshots, but while we are doing this, might as well avoid having to download the entire blockchain. Bandwidth savings alone makes it worthwhile.
OK, so one way or another, let us assume the node is current. Now the problem is keeping up with 1000TPS (lets make the overall network adaptive so we can handle bursts of 1000TPS, sustained 250 TPS) and that requires bandwidth, though with binary data, 250 TPS should be around what 100TPS will be now. So 100kbps would be enough to handle bursts of 1000TPS and sustained 250TPS
But where does all that data go?
Actually, I say just throw it away! Why can't we use a FIFO that stores the most recent 1441 blocks for all the blockchains (when we go parallel). Since we synced the the full blockchain with the last days checkpoint, then as long as we are properly updating the "entire state of NXT network" at any given block, we are able to forge a valid block.
Unless I totally missed some reason why we need to locally store more than the last 1441 blocks, this should work. We can then specify that any NXT VM (Turing scripts) will need to be designed to use only data from prior 1440 blocks. This I do not see as a big limitation as if it is really important the client issuing script can just get data it needs and put it into AM. So, the NXTcore would need to implement the FIFO, preferably based on a web.xml parameter. That would allow people who run NXT VM generating clients to have access to exactly the window of time they need.
I hope this puts useful forging back on the table for raspis. 100kbps to fully support 1000TPS (peak output) NXT network
James
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It will lose a lot of prestige value if you are not included. Will you forbid jean-luc from even just listing BCNext on the first line and Come-from-Beyond on the second line? We dont have to have any other text
I can't prove that BCNext is against any mention of his name in "credits" coz genesis account passphrase is cracked, just believe me. I'm against including my name into the "credits" too. OK, I believe you. I guess no point for this API call then |
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rofl. i completely missed that thread where i was mentioned like a dozen times
U should monetize ur reputation. If u were a fiat gateway operator for Asset Exchange, u would help the community a lot. I would accept dollars issued by u without any doubt. Think of such a business plz... Anybody that runs a fiat gateway in USA will be regulated until they stop it. We need somebody who is outside of US jurisdiction and willing to never enter USA, preferably from a country without extradition treaty. I doubt they will go so far as to extradite someone over running a fiat gateway, but you never know... |
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doesnt this mean its illegal to sell anything on craigslist? i mean would it be different if someone sold their bicoins on craigslist instead of localbitcoins? are bitcoins legally speaking any different from any other good that you might buy on craigslist?
It's the dollar amount. They ran up against anti-money laundering laws. The feds have an amount ($10,000) and states and local jurisdictions may have their own laws on the subject too. It's a mine-field for those of us in the US. so then people buying cars for > 10,000 on craigslist are breaking the law? I don't believe so since a car is a physical good. It has to do with money-for-money transmission/exchange. OWOW bitcoin is considered money in the us now? No, but accepting $10,000 is under money laundering laws. FC! See you can make useful posts. I am proud of you!! I do believe if you buy (or sell) a car for $10001 one or both ** could ** be prosecuted to the full extent of law. Such a nice friendly country america is. Come to america, spend you vacation here. Just dont spend too much money! |
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thats bullshit.. your money so you can withdraw what ever you want! id have a shit attack if my bank said i couldnt withdraw my own money in person in the bank.. id understand a few hundred thou or a million but not just a couple thou... there all goin buyin bitcoin from zipzap lol Yeah, it's scary. If a well capitalised bank like HSBC is not letting customers withdrawal 7,000, then the finance world is in a really bad state! That's not a conspiracy theorist article either--- it's BBC! ya every thing is made out to be fine and dandy an by the time the majority of people find out theres a serious problem, its too late. if i was that guy i would withdraw every penny from his bank accounts even if it ment going into the bank everyday for a week! shits guna hit the fan sometime this year.. i just hope everyone sees it coming and gets out (not guna happen) edit: BOO YAA in yo face! check mate apple! your move! http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/07/millennius-stops-all-sales-iphones-protest-apple-removal-blockchain-info-ios-app/cash is slowly becoming illegal, govts want all transactions for everything in a handy database file on all of us They have made it so USA citizens cant open bank accounts overseas anymore using strong arm tactics to enforce their REGULATIONS onto other countries. The violation of sovereign rights by america is a sign of the desperate means it will go to in order to bury under the rug its inability to pay for the interest on debt. This summer is estimated critical point, though if they sold the Grand Canyon to Disney, maybe they can delay it for a bit. Regardless new regulations will hit this summer that will effectively prevent taking USD out of america. Hence the war on bitcoin via regulations will continue to get worse and worse |
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Although the Nxt Asset Exchange will be a useful addition I think that we are missing something that could be much more useful (and perhaps a "killer" addition) and that is "atomic cross-chain crypto-currency transfers" (some of you would recall I've already mentioned it). As far as I can tell no-one has actually built such a system and also so far I can't even tell if such a transfer using TierNolan's approach ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading) has ever actually been tested (if anyone has a link that shows such a transaction having taken place then I'd be very interested to see it). IMO this would really be a "game changer" as it could allow people to trade crypto's directly without an exchange and without risk (beyond having to wait for the "refund" problem that is necessary for TierNolan's solution in case the trade doesn't get finalised). It wouldn't work fast enough to do "day trading" but for those not in a huge rush the promise of 100% secure transactions with only minimal blockchain fees would be pretty appealing. What do you guys think? Of course I agree, 100000 NXT bounty attached so solution I also think another related solution is using AE for all the trading and then we just need decentralized gateways. In some ways that will be more efficient. People can trade crypto to any other crypto using AE and all the deposits (much easier) and withdrawals (much harder) are decentralized, trustless and automated |
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CfB, please object if is NOT ok to start posting there regarding changes to NXTcore like zerocoin.
I don't mind. P.S. CfB, can we have a "credits" API call? I am thinking that like in the movies, they show credits and it of course starts with BCNext, CfB (+ maybe your devs if they want to come out of shadow), jean-luc, and now Doctor Evil/Jesse James. I have some "Puzzle" bounties I want to offer, and being added to the NXT credits API call would mean far more to the people who are able to solve these tough puzzles. Having that in addition to NXT bounty would maximize results.
Don't include BCNext and me to the credits. It will lose a lot of prestige value if you are not included. Will you forbid jean-luc from even just listing BCNext on the first line and Come-from-Beyond on the second line? We dont have to have any other text |
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It seems one of BCNext plans tackles this stuff?
Yes, but he is upset that community doesn't wish to review and develop his ideas. Anon136 is the only one who does. I think the majority of people here are interested in reviewing and developing his (BCNext) ideas, we just need a little structured guidance, this thread is so massive. yup. same here. I am barely hanging on with hanging on. I guess we should head over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.0 and discuss our TF ideas. (Re)starting discussion on reviewing and developing TF If BCNext likes what you are doing, you will get added to NXT credits API! James |
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James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?
rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words |
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It seems one of BCNext plans tackles this stuff?
Yes, but he is upset that community doesn't wish to review and develop his ideas. Anon136 is the only one who does. I think the majority of people here are interested in reviewing and developing his (BCNext) ideas, we just need a little structured guidance, this thread is so massive. yup. same here. I am barely hanging on with hanging on. I guess we should head over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.0 and discuss our TF ideas. I fully agree! I am doing my best to create addons as I am not yet fully understanding of TF, so cant really be of value in reviewing. I will push for ideas that TF can hopefully enable. |
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Please comment Just want to catch on the discussion we had this afternoon about features and target audience for nxt.
1. (Possible) Features:
- TF for instant transactions
- TF + punishment against 50% attacks (correct?)
- no bloated blockchain
- energy friendly crypto
- mobile friendly crypto
- easy to add new features
- many many TPS
- parallel blockchains
- blockchain shrinking
- decentralized exchange
- colored coins
- decentralized voting/opiniongrabber
- decentralized AM (data storage, link storage (eg torrents), encrypted messaging, ...)
- dividend payouts (all fees per block) for everyone instead of mining of the few with lots of power
- Turing capability
- smart contracts
- anonymous transactions
- SMS gateway
2. Today it was clear that the nxt community isn't sure yet, which features are the most important ones, which could be ignored in favor of other features (some exclude each other), and who the target audience is. Would it be easier if we knew plan 2 and 3 from BCNext? I don't know. But regardless of BCNext's plans, we should discuss this topic in the community: which is our target audience now, next months and in one year? Does this depend on the features we implement or does the features depend on the audience we want to tackle? The answer is clear (or is nxt just fundamental research?) That's why we should discuss this.
3. Some thoughts on some features and their implications:
- TF was and is our key ingredient in nxt. I have no clue at which state it is right now, who will develop all the core ingredients of TF (JL?) and how important it will be in one year
- bloated blockchain: although I was quite shocked about today's statements about the size of the blockchain, I see it more clearly now. First of all I think it is still bad because solar powered RaspberryPis and AndroidTV sticks will not work for securing the nxt network in the future, IF we will get to a large TPS. The idea of thousands of raspberrypis working and securing nxt is dead. That's really sad because it was a really nice idea, especially marketing wise. Otherwise, I came to the conclusion that our chain should currently be measured with the same transaction amount as bitcoin has right now. And then, our block chain is cute and tiny.
- we are still very energy friendly, but the loss of raspberrypis in the future is a slap in the marketing face
- with lightweight clients, we are able to use nxt on every smartphone. BUT is this different and superior to BTC if we can’t actually forge with our phone? (Leasing forge power is not the same since we are not really part of the nxt network with the phone). When we implement block shrinking and parallel blockchains, we could shovel weight of the important transaction chain which means smartphones and raspberrypis could work longer for nxt (until how many TPS? I have one clue)
- SMS gateway (bounty by CfB) must be developed (eg Africa is using SMS as some sort of currency). This would be a really nice feature, especially for marketing
- do we need turing stuff? if we have the resources to develop this (i don’t want CfB to waste his energy if this is a nice, but not a must have feature or if this feature would make some other features impossible (like high TPS or no bloated blockchain)), let’s do it. it is nice marketing also.
- High and fast TPS is important for a special target audience (professionals like people relying on VISA). It was advertised big since the beginning. if we are able to keep this promise, then we must do this. or we also should look at the possibility of hight TPS if we implement other features which might interfere with hight TPS.
- anonymous transactions is a freaking HUGE opportunity. if we can tackle this, then, absolutely, let’s do it.
- decentralized exchange and colored coins are a must.
- CfB states many times that it is easy to implement new features in nxt. I am no dev and just have to believe him. It should always be easy so nxt can adapt to new ideas and technologies.
some features are implemented, some are discussed, and some are plain ideas. We should discuss where nxt is heading to get a clear view what should be implemented in the next months. We should discuss all ideas and get an overview WHO will develop which services or features. And we should make a clear distinction between service providers (which uses nxt) and nxt features (which build nxt). and we should always be aware of paradox decisions (like 1000000TPS and mini blockchain for example). Now I have no clue who is responsible for what. I have a fear that many things just don’t get done because of diffusion of responsibility (Google it). I hope i’m wrong.
Maybe I forgot many major things, but it is a starting point.
-
All the written stuff above could be total bullshit, because I'm no programmer and have difficulties to keep up with all the stuff what's going on in the nxt ecosystem.
I sincerely hope that I get some comments from devs, idea makers, marketers, ... And I hope we get a discussion started about target audience, features and what is the meaning of nxt.
Please respond (think about diffusion of responsibility if you don’t want to click “reply”).
tl;dr invest in doge.
Somebody more organized than me needs to make a list of all the previously announced features that are not already done and create a Projects list. Then, we can see which ones are being done by whom. Duplication is not necessarily bad, but if it makes sense to this list will make cooperating much easier. Whenever possible, the estimated timeframe for next release step should be there. You know, just basic project management by publishing all the separate things we want, who is on it and when they expect the next step to be achieved. If something has nobody working on it, then the first step is to get someone working on it or even earlier when it is specified enough so someone can start working on it. If someone is working on it, they will hopefully post when the first (alpha) release will be. If already alpha, then when beta is, etc. For example, I am not exactly sure if Account Control is full specified, who is working on it and when to expect it. This does not require technical skills to keep updated, you can have the technical text provided by others. Then on a regular basis, the entire list can be posted here so everybody can at a glance see where NXT development is. James P.S. I repeat that we should do everything since it is just a matter of keeping the project list updated. Private projects belong on this list too, as long as they will be opensourced. |
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First scatter plots and correlations from few days' TOP60 data.   Those plots present how the account's balance affects to the incomes ("forge efficiency"). In one pic is the earnt fees and in the other the paid fees are subtracted from fees. Both correlations are not so strong, only 0.29. Reason is that there are big accounts, which have been emptied, having 0 NXT anymore or just the data hasn't got it yet. Hopefully those will disappear from the stats after some days/weeks Nice stats! When NXTcash (zerocoin) testnet is launched, we will need guys with statistics knowledge to verify that no correlation of spending is leaking. It should only be possible to guess as accurately as random chance, so when NXTcash is being used by thousands of people, it becomes practically unfeasible to get any usable correlations. When hundreds of thousands of NXT'ers are using NXTcash, basically impossible to correlate anything. Especially, if we put some mixing before and/or after the NXTcash stage. James P.S. If you can start thinking about how to setup a statistical test to validate annonymity that would be great. Planning on making transaction details super easy to parse so no time needs to be wasted in getting the raw data (on testnet only) |
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I think from your list of possible features "anonymous transactions" would be the killer feature.
Not just the possibility to use some kind of mixing service, but actually changing pseudo anonymity to real anonymity. It is beyond me to say if this is possible, but if it is and gets implemented, NXT will explode (not (just) the price, but adoption, resources and everything else).
+1 And thanks for replying. Zerocoin is better than plain mixing, making progress |
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Word of advice, try not to fly during big winter storms. I tried to buy wifi access with cash, but that is not allowed anymore they said. In USA it seems that cash is NOT "legal tender for all debts public and private". Does anybody know where I can complain about my USD cash banknotes not working anymore?
Cash is already not cash like it used to be. It is essential that we get zerocoin added to NXT as soon as possible. Bloodyrookie is making nice progress, I was thinking of hijacking the NXT injected flaws thread for our zerocoin posts. Doesnt seem to be too active nowadays anyway and in the process of figuring out how to add zerocoin, we could well stumble upon the injected flaw. CfB, please object if is NOT ok to start posting there regarding changes to NXTcore like zerocoin. I can only have so many tabs open in my browser and reaching limit, would be nice not to have more required tabs.
It seems I always miss the best buying chances, mtgox + russia ban -> BTC @ $619!
Congrats do Dr. Evil, aka Jesse James. Really like the names!
I believe I found a key architectural improvement that when implemented will dramatically boost NXT value and price. At least double, if not order of magnitude. At a high level, think of NXT as the IP protocol. At first, you couldn't do much more than send emails. Now, a little bit more. What this means to me is that if we give NXT core a few more critical abilities, document it well, then the number of NXT add-ons will become staggering.
So we need to make sure the barrier to entry for adding more functionality to NXT is as low as possible.
We make NXT extensible and provide key reference solutions. The current state of java doc for NXT almost makes me want to just start writing Java! Very nice. An experienced Java developer should have no problems in adding new functionality to NXT, but I think we need to have some intelligent way of determining what add-ons actually migrate into the core release and which ones remain as addons.
I might have figured out how raspis can keep up with 1000TPS (as long as they have bandwidth), but I am still not fully up to speed on blockchains so maybe it wont work.
Will post more as I catch up.
James
P.S. CfB, can we have a "credits" API call? I am thinking that like in the movies, they show credits and it of course starts with BCNext, CfB (+ maybe your devs if they want to come out of shadow), jean-luc, and now Doctor Evil/Jesse James. I have some "Puzzle" bounties I want to offer, and being added to the NXT credits API call would mean far more to the people who are able to solve these tough puzzles. Having that in addition to NXT bounty would maximize results.
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Then i need to totally update what low level bounty is for, as i doubt there is c compiler for CfB's opcodes
Once his VM is finalized, an assembler should be written. From there, retargeting a Small C compiler to the assembler should not be too hard -- depending on how feature rich CfB wants to make his VM. At this point, registers and a stack pointer will have to be simulated by a VM assembly library. Makes sense |
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It seems to obsolete it I think zahlen was the only one who spent time on it If it is ok with him, i would like to authorize 500 nxt for his troubles Then i need to totally update what low level bounty is for, as i doubt there is c compiler for CfB's opcodes I was thinking that a large set of tested subroutines would be a useful community resource Of course if someone has experience with clang code generators and wants to, i could offer bounty for clang that outputs CfB opcodes We need some basics tools, maybe macro assembler, simple linker, library creator, etc Nothing too fancy, just tools that will save eveybody time to develop scripts I also would like to see ideas on what sort of scripts people think are useful I want cross chain scripts... Especially cross chain scripts that somehow works in conjunction with AE I hope someone will figure out how to make it work James |
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