...but you are in possession of shares worth 1,000,000,000 BTC on the market.
Which is neither realistic nor good for (potential) investors.

I personally would like to know if such types of shares would at least be possible to create, as it would be great for my idea of selling mining contract shares and give a bit more credibility to the shares issuer.

Hi everyone,

My concern is that currently on GLBSE you really can become a bitcoin billionaire easily:
Create a billion +1 shares, sell the one share at 1 BTC --> poof, here you go!

What I would suggest is that when creating shares, you also yourself have to buy as many shares as you would like to keep. As the money goes right back to your account, and there are no fees, this would not harm any business. It would however stop individuals that abuse a share model to create a credit/speculation system, where they only fundraise from others - but solely based on a big bubble (as the suggestion in the beginning, which is not possible at all with less than 7 million bitcoin in circulation right now and 21 million BTC max.)

I would like to have a second kind of shares that is working like this.

Example:
I have 100 BTC I'd like to start a business with, however I need another 200 BTC to get going. With my proposed kind of shares, you would only be able/allowed in the beginning to own 1/3 of the shares. The ability to buy more shares gets frozen until all shares are sold or until I have more money in my GLBSE account than initial shares + currently sold shares are worth (and I would be able to buy shares only with that excess money of course). Once the remaining 2/3 are sold, I can buy them back at market price as I like or really start that business I want to do.
Should I hold 2 assets at once, of course these numbers would be cumulative (so I have to have enough money in my account for both assets + sold shares and can then buy additional shares back with the remaining money).

This would not allow for every kind of business, however it would be a more secure way to start something, as you need to give proof that you already have the money you claim to have and get also only the proportion of the shares that is equal to your own investment.
For the more risk-friendly investors they could still invest in the "classic" shares - for shared mining contracts (as a concrete example) however something like my suggestion might be more desirable.

Maybe something like this could even be done right now, by releasing all shares and immediately buying back your own part, but then the asset holder could also double-spend (and I'm not even sure if it might work in the first place for this very reason...).


Hope you like my idea (or even better: You don't like it and give constructive reasons why and how it could be made better!), looking forward to your input.

I guess he means if you would be paid out on when finding block X because you have more than 1 BTC in your balance instead you would be paid when finding block X+1.

I'm not 100% sure if 2 independent pools with 5 GH/s are doing better or worse than 1 pool with 10 GH/s - other than reducing "luck" (and "bad luck"). It might be enough to just combine the payouts. The only potential issue I see is that 1 pool could find a block at the same time as the other pool and one of them becomes invalid. As however distributing the same work across the globe might lead to higher latency + more stale shares, this could be a higher % than the % of solving the same block in both (or several) pools - especially if the pool servers themselves are well connected and get notified asap about found blocks.

As you claim to have certificates, I bet it would be cool to see them... and also the website of your company/datacenter owner.

Also, I again want to emphasize that a fixed USD prize that is just dynamically converted to BTC is (at least for me) the only option to invest here on a longer term.
It would also be more safe for you, as no matter what the BTC <--> USD price is, you can be sure to be able to cover your own costs or you can choose to gamble and not sell the BTC right away.

With current difficulty increases, 60 BTC/month might be very hard to reach in just a few weeks - but if BTC <--> USD prices still go up, the ~400 USD you charge per month might still be reachable, converted to BTC.

If you would switch to such a model, I even might jump in (even though the rig costs are still very high imho - can we also assemble rigs on our own according to your specs and ship them in?) or create an asset on GLBSE to allow for "micro mining".

Even if we could raise a vote (according to the terms 30% would be required for that - I doubt that the GLBSE has rules for that in place though yet) - he owns 50%+1 share (+ a few thousand more shares) of the company and could easily deny the request.

Also as it looks you have to be the asset owner to raise votes, at least according to the documentation.

With the suggested 30 rigs @ 700MH/s a single share represents btw. 2.1 MH/s - at current difficulty that's 0.01341733 BTC/day - until that is reached however, it still might take a while, as these rigs have yet to be set up.

You can run processes with lower priority in the background, so it won't interfere at all with work.

The Watts/MHash/s ratio of CPUs however is that bad, that currently you cannot even pay for the electricity used (depending on the rate of course, but well... 3 MHashes/s give ~3 Bitcents/day (if computers run during the night) currently) with the BTC generated. Did you tell this your boss too?

With 400 MHash/s currently you mine ~2.55 BTC/day

So unless BTC are worth less than 2.80 USD a coin, you are better off mining than buying...

What I really would like to be clarified in the FAQ is how to handle paypal fees and what's the recommended way to trade with paypal in general.

For this you would need to have funds already on this "instawallet" service (which could go down/take your BTC any second they want to). If oyu just have your local wallet.dat, you would need to get the most current blocks before being able to issue any transaction.

If you limit bandwidth there, this would lead to long downloads + frustrated clients who anyways have to wait ~2-3 blocks until they are allowed into the network in the first place!

Bitcoin might be nice for real money transfer, but for small + quick payments (on the airport I want to check mails 5 minutes before the plane leaves, not wait half an hour until my payment is verified!) you would need either a centralized prepay-solution or something else.

Either offer a fixed USD/EUR/whatever you use price that gets converted to BTC or lower your prices significantly...

It's unrealistic with current difficulty rises to even mine 1000 BTC over the lifetime of these card, let alone >100BTC (+ payoff) per month!

Also pictures would be nice!

This price is lower, and they have probably a higher reputation than you:
http://www.bitcoinrigs.com/products/Rig-Rental-Service.html

Also, allowing arbitrary services on your own machines = no-go for me, sorry. There's too high of a risk that someone might use them for something more profitable and more illegal than generating BTC...

My 6870 does 280 MH/s - a dual setup should be able to do 500MH/s at least!

I would be interested, just as a short question: Who pays paypal fees and do you accept weekly payments too?

Edit:
Would you agree to a system similar to vladimir's? You say, you mine at xxxMHashes/s for a period of time and just pay daily (or even weekly) what these MHashes/s would generate in BTC. This means you can rent for example 400MH/s but still have 100MH/s for yourself/variance and on the other hand customers don't have to hope that you have a "good day" or "luck streak".

Currently you need ~160MHashes/s to generate 1 BTC on average per day. Power draw is somewhere between 1-1.5 W/MHash/s, so ~4-6 kW/day can be expected (a minig rig that small would have a bit more of overhead from other components, so I'll use the 6 kW/day further on)

Depending on your electricity costs you can roughly estimate a bitcoin currently costs between ~.50 USD and ~1 EUR in electricity to be minted. This is with GPUs though, that have a good Watts/MHash/s rate. With CPUs this would be a very different thing.

Also, as difficulty increases, you can use the increases easily in this calculation: Difficulty increases by 50% --> BTC minting costs 50% more.


Depreciation is hard to guess, as I'm not 100% sure how long a mining rig should depreciate (5 years? 2 years? 3 months?), and many people use their GPU for other things than mining too, so do your own maths.

How can you verify that the eBay profile I would send you is really me?
Anyways, I'll contact you with my eBay name to be able to lurk along and wait until the price is right!

Well, actually that's a good thing - it means I got over 10% of what that block would have given me - without me finding any block at all, ever!

Yeah, I hope someone picks that up...

Investing in a whole business and having theoretical voting rights there etc. is not interesting anyways for me at least, if I'm just interested in a mini-mining contract (which in the end of the day the SIN stocks are). I don't even want to go through hassles on voting on motions or waiting 30 days for the next dividend. My few daily millibitcents for my .50 BTC share would be much cooler - and also the shares would be far more attractive to others and might shoot up in price very quickly.

A clever miner would even first hand out just a few % of shares of an existing rig, wait until they are sold out and under great demand and then slowly release the rest of the shares until the desired grade of distribution netting (now in the startup days) probably ENORMOUS profits!

Edit:
I'm even thinking of doing that myself, however my ~280MH/s machine is a bit too weak for that and operating a proper 24/7 rig is currently not in my focus (as it would need to be silent --> watercooled which drives prices up).

I'd love to see such a project from a more reputable community member.

Handing out shares for mining rigs is actually a great way to rent mining capacity imho and would also be much better for "micropayment" and short term contracts than the current usual 1000+USD contracts.

Promise to build a rig and keep it operational, create shares for that, keep 5-10% of the shares (or whatever you calculate and what is competitive amongst the market) to keep your business running and cover electricity costs etc. and sell the rest of the shares to investors while paying the dividend daily. 50% overhead and a full business is a bit too much imho... These SIN shares would rather be used for speculation than for actual dividend income, as the expected income is far too low compared to for example Vladimir if he would start handing out shares for one rig as an experiment.

What's the hashrate in a VM per GPU (GPU core or GPU with both cores?)?

Can we use the VM for arbitrary stuff or just for BitCoin mining?

Why so expensive? (500 USD/4 weeks) What's the added benefit of your mining contract proposal?

This is somehow expected, as the value (as far as I got it) is combined of: Fixed amount of BTC from past rounds + variable (changing/proportional) amount of BTC from this round. Every time a round ends, the value kinda gets frozen and on top of that, the new variable amount is placed.

Example: .30 BTC from previous rounds, this round I have 1% of shares (=0.50 BTC) --> ~0.80 BTC displayed. As soon as a block is found, I still continue to have 1% of hashing power, so I still have 1% of shares --> ~1.30 BTC displayed. If I stopped immediately after a few shares, this value would go down to a minimum of ~0.80BTC again over time, as others are still producing shares, but I am no longer doing that.

US/EUR/Asia?

Also account trading is not ok according to Blizzard's ToS, just by sending your ID card to Blizzard, you can get your account back or at least take it away from the buyer...