You still haven't answered to my question, though.

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

— Erin Hanson.  

Interpretation of the poem: People don't use Bitcoin, because they think they're playing it safe. They're reckless enough to realize the potential dangers of their current money and the benefits they can get by using Bitcoin.

Maybe some people don't want to be part of a fraudulent, built-to-corrupt system where their money is inflated as there's demand for new loans. Maybe some people just want to use something that leaves room for questioning; that its usage is not forced to satisfy ones' interests; that provides free speech and freedom of choice.

There's a difference between trusting a system and having faith to a system: No one forces you the latter. You ought to respect those people who have different political beliefs than you. No?

Sure.


My configuration file:

Maybe it's not my fate to get involved into Lightning. 

There's a hereby misuse of the word “subjective”. I don't accept this as subjective. And as a wise man once said:

Excuse me for this and thank you for correcting me. Yes, not all forms of money are debt. Money is debt only within the modern financial system. Say for instance, your bank account's balance. That's debt, from the bank's side, to you. You can transfer this debt to others and therefore, make it money without withdrawing it.

Yes, everything you described about the debt system is correct. But, debt doesn't change the situation. When I accept to get paid by your debt, I'm supposed to receive my dollars at some point in the future or transfer this debt to someone who will receive those dollars in the future. If you promised to return me monopoly banknotes, that'd also be debt, but I'd refuse, 'cause people don't accept those. I accept to provide you services and sell you products in exchange for pieces of paper or debt of those pieces, because there's a government who's forced their usage.

Anyway, we're not going to ever agree on the debt thing. So here's my question, is it reasonable for some people to not want to deal with debt? What's the problem if two individuals want to accomplish a purchase by the way I described?

Don't open up new topics in the same thread. Let's cover one at a time.

I'm utterly confused on which statements Danny and Franky disagree. Isn't solo mining when the miner attempts to solve a block all by themselves and whose reward will go entirely to them? Isn't pooled mining when miners are gathered to compute hashes and get rewarded accordingly to how much each contributed when one of those solves a block?

I've never spoken for my personal opinions towards Bitcoin in this thread. Actually, I challenge you to quote me wherever (you think) I did. Those things I've told you are facts.

Money is debt. You measure this debt in money. Fiat currencies are money, because they're considered by people as currencies. Two individuals could setup their own ledger which would contain their own transactions, in simple “numbers” as you say.

For instance, me and DooMAD. We could create a ledger that starts with 10,000 monetary units and deal by using this as a medium of exchange. Say DooMAD gave me a bar of chocolate, I signed in the ledger that I now own 10 less and he owns 10 more. If more people liked this ledger, it could be considered money. Yes, they're just numbers, but it's a lot easier to transfer the equivalent of ten Teslas by writing down some additional lines, if we're both agreeing on a value, than by transferring the actual vehicles. Therefore, it satisfies for this purpose.

But, that's what I've been telling him for the past page. The problem is that he can't understand that it's a wrong conclusion to consider something meaningless just because it's a number in some database... It satisfies one job. Therefore it has at least one purpose of existence.

Of course, people are the problem. You're right and everyone else is wrong. You can't understand that something which is not tangible can be utilized. The answer you're looking is on the main page of Bitcoin's wiki:


If you haven't got it, yet, you're problematic.

I'm very able of replying to your questions. You're just perpetually denying them, because they're not favoring you. You've spared so much time to create videos explaining why Bitcoin is meaningless and therefore, you want to be biased towards it.

We're not a store here, sir. We're making dialogue. We're not obligated to assist you.

Yes, that's my answer. That's the main reason people use Bitcoin. The fact that you don't like this answer doesn't make it not true. Allow me to tell you that not every person thinks exactly as you do.

You're generally not interested into admitting you're wrong. You can't accept another mindset. I wasn't interested into talking to such person, but hey, at least I tried.

This is true.

This is also true. Cars exist solely for this reason.

This is half true. The price is determined by lot of things, such as the price of their productive factors, the technological improvements, the need for driving from the consumers' side.

Correct, but some things are easier to trade than others. For instance, it's far easier to transport a million dollars worth of gold than a million dollars worth of cars. Gold is easier to cut into smaller pieces, it's durable and fungible. I'd prefer paying me in gold rather than in cars.

It's stupid because it's not designed to be traded. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to buy such car, just to trade it. It's not utilized for trade, but for driving.

You still haven't answered me why would I want these green pieces of paper. According to you, they don't have utility as they're designed only to be exchanged for goods and services.

They're valuable because they're used as currency. It's a measure of utility. Monopoly banknotes have not the same value, because they aren't accepted in the same way. But, they both are pieces of paper.

Of course and some do. Some don't want BTC, they are willing to exchange it for any other currency or product. However, I don't think withdraw is the correct verb to describe this.

Again, neither fiat currencies are. Securities, bonds and stocks happen on an already existent currency. Stocks aren't EUR, but they can be exchanged for it. Same can happen with Bitcoin, gold, rocks and salt as long as the buyer and the seller come into an agreement.

No, it's not. This is just you who's constantly thinking closed-mindedly. It can neither be driven or eaten. That doesn't make it non-utilizable.

I've already told it to you two times. You're paying any amount of dollars to use a currency that is different in character.

I explained above why this is false.

You're not going to trade 1 needle for 1 Bugatti. You're going to look up the price of 1 needle and the price of 1 Bugatti. If we assume that 1 Buggati costs $1,000,000 and 1 needle $0.01, then whether you give me 100,000,000 needles or 1 Buggati, they have the same market value.

Hi, thanks for your persistence!

I think that my node should be working fine. This is my getinfo:


Try to connect with me, we'll most likely connect properly. Electrum doesn't, though:


At least it gives me a message now. Could I have a context of what does that mean?

Bumping in February.

6 million sats for 300 transactions? Paying those on-chain comes much cheaper.

I already gave it to you. You're getting the ability to use a currency. Just like when you give $1 for €0.88. Bitcoin is a currency with specific characteristics. Some evaluate it because of these.

No it's not. No one makes much usage of one empty box to give $10,000 for it.

And yet, that's the only answer. The only purpose of Bitcoin's existence is because it helps us make transactions in a different way.

You'll be able to use an internet currency that is censorship resistant, borderless, fast and online 24/7/365.

You keep thinking in terms of government's bonds. Stop it. The videos you've mentioned have no relation with the questions you're making here. You're asking “why would I want to buy a number”, I'm telling you that this number can be used to exchange stuff; it's a medium of exchange. There are people who find it useful. Focus on this statement.

No, it also means able to be traded:

By the same reasoning, gold is also a dead rock. Yes, you can make jewelry, but what's the point of jewelry if you don't care about shiny necklaces? What if you don't care about electronics? What if you don't care about medicine and dentistry? Guess what: Some people do.

Same goes for Bitcoin. Some people are satisfied by using it as a currency, because it has perfect characteristics. The fact that you're seeing it just as a number doesn't make that false. Do we agree that if two individuals find it satisfactory, it instantly gains value? (Whether that's personal or market value)

Winning and non-winning lottery tickets may be one of the worst ways to analogize USD with Bitcoin. May I assume you've made it?

This video gives a horrible example of how these two currencies differentiate. You keep using these buzzwords (e.g., “numbers”, “redeemable numbers” etc.) to achieve what exactly? Yes, any form of IOU is redeemable, congratulations for figuring this out.

The video doesn't explain why Bitcoin is meaningless. It just says that it's not redeemable, which is not true. Redeemable means that it can be exchanged for goods, services or money. Both assets and liabilities (IOUs) are redeemable.

You're repeatedly having false syllogisms. False conclusions.

I don't know what you're trading it with, but when I buy a car I give these:


The fact that you can use it to buy securities, bonds, investment funds etc. does not make it anything beyond a currency. This is all it is. And it has value, because your government says so. If you found another way to make your transactions, then you'd have found out another currency. This is Bitcoin. And since it's entirely possible to buy any type of titles with a currency, you can do with Bitcoin too.