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CfB?
Abandon subleq or push forward?
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Libraries/Demo
Libraries for programs written in SUBLEQ assembly, as accepted by sqasm, are available.
They provide several common functions:
getint (read integer from input)
gets (read string from input)
putint (write integer to output)
puts (write string to output)
Several useful procedures are also available:
bubblesort (sort a string of characters)
calc (perform a given operation on two integers)
factorial (calculate the factorial of a positive integer)
primes (generate and print a list of primes)
Usage information and equivalent C code (where appropriate) is provided in the comments of each of these files.
A menu-driven program demonstrating the above libraries is also provided. Simply call make run in the project root directory to run the demo program.
Interpreter
A very minimal (only 222 bytes in size) SUBLEQ interpreter written in C is available:
_____________
What everyday operations do you have in mind?
You really like it, right?  It's okay. Nevermind. It's just that I trust technology like that only after many years of production. That's all. It's not that I do not think they weren't capable of producing a good piece of compiler and libs. It's just that: nobody's perfect, especially no programmers. In the end, only time can 'prove' correctness. Well if we can use proven solution, then we wouldnt have to develop our own. Do you want to wait until etherium is proven and then use that? I am confused again. I think we can have a path to Turing complete script with C compiler and a small amount of functions. The alternative is to implement 28 or 32 opcodes, which is a lot more work as each opcode needs to be implemented and tested, etc. If CfB signs off on subleq VM, then we can start in parallel fleshing out and TESTING more and more C libraries based on subleq C compiler. I like being able to develop a project in separate pieces. As soon as we have subleq scripting, we can then hook up all the higher level stuff that has been ported and tested. Does that make sense? Anon, Alias, CIYAM, other smart guys. Please tell me if I am being incompetent again, or did I get lucky? James P.S. If CfB signs off on subleq VM, I will authorize bounties for getting the higher level functions done. It is clear to me that we need a layer of code that abstracts the details of script, AM, etc and allows higher level development. With a C compiler available, maybe one of the bounties will be to port a higher level language to subleq VM |
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Anybody here from NxtCrypto.org have an issue with me using a cropped version of the Nxt on fire within my installer as seen below? I'm trying to spice it up a bit.  If that was BTC, it would be perfect for XCP logo, but for NXT it looks like you are burning NXT. Not sure it is so good. |
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Below is a "Hello world" program adapted from Lawrence Woodman helloworld.sq [10]. It is exceptionally terse, but is a good example of Subleq efficiency. L:H (-1); U L; U ?+2; Z H (-1); Z Z L . U:-1 H:"hello, world\n" Z:0 A special variable called Z is often used in Subleq as an intermediate temporary variable within a highly small scope. It is commonly assumed that this variable is initialised at zero and left at zero after every usage. The program above consists of five instructions. First instruction prints the character pointed by its first operand (the first pointer) which is initialised to the beginning of the data string – the letter ’h’. Second instruction increments that pointer – the first operand of the first instruction. Third instruction increments the second pointer, which is the second operand of the fourth instruction. Fourth instruction tests the value pointed by the second pointer and halts the program when the value is zero. It becomes zero when the pointer reaches the cell one after the end of the data string, which is Z:0. The fifth instruction loops back to the beginning Come on. It's academic. You have to do a lot more to do everyday operations. Check out http://da.vidr.cc/projects/subleq/Is it really just academic theoretical? They explain how they made C compiler in PDF, there is a chip that implements this I only know about this from when I found it, and not sure if it is usable, but if there is a C compiler for it, then it sure sounds usable to me. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Higher_Subleqhere is source to C compiler: http://mazonka.com/subleq/hsq.cppJames That's the point in being turing complete, right? turing-complete = you can calculate whatever is computable. So, C is turing complete and subleq is turing complete. That is, they are equivalent: there is a C program for every subleq program that delivers the very same output for the very same input and vice-versa. But anyway, I would always go with proven technology. I mean C and subleq are just ideas/standards/concepts. There are many, many compilers/programs/bits'n'bytes for them. There is where the problem occurs not on the paper but in the source code. There are the bugs and optimization potentials. Therefore: use what's already there and has been proven itself in millions of devices for years. You are confusing me. Are you agreeing with me or saying that somehow subleq is pure academics and not proven. I found open source C compiler with example programs all that generate subleq, a single opcode for every instruction. If there is a C compiler, we can use all the existing C code out there as long as we honor VM limitations. So, please explain why C compiler -> higher_subleq -> subleq is useless academic and not a practical solution. You have to remember I have been proven to be incompetent in technical stuff so I need to have things explained to me, even if it is obvious to the smart guys James |
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CfB, what is your opinion of subleq? It seems we just need to implement one opcode.
There already exists Higher_subleq (assembly language) and C compiler, so that sure sounds like the quickest path. The CPU model they use doesn't seem too crazy.
James
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Below is a "Hello world" program adapted from Lawrence Woodman helloworld.sq [10]. It is exceptionally terse, but is a good example of Subleq efficiency. L:H (-1); U L; U ?+2; Z H (-1); Z Z L . U:-1 H:"hello, world\n" Z:0 A special variable called Z is often used in Subleq as an intermediate temporary variable within a highly small scope. It is commonly assumed that this variable is initialised at zero and left at zero after every usage. The program above consists of five instructions. First instruction prints the character pointed by its first operand (the first pointer) which is initialised to the beginning of the data string – the letter ’h’. Second instruction increments that pointer – the first operand of the first instruction. Third instruction increments the second pointer, which is the second operand of the fourth instruction. Fourth instruction tests the value pointed by the second pointer and halts the program when the value is zero. It becomes zero when the pointer reaches the cell one after the end of the data string, which is Z:0. The fifth instruction loops back to the beginning Come on. It's academic. You have to do a lot more to do everyday operations. Libraries/Demo Libraries for programs written in SUBLEQ assembly, as accepted by sqasm, are available. They provide several common functions: getint (read integer from input) gets (read string from input) putint (write integer to output) puts (write string to output) Several useful procedures are also available: bubblesort (sort a string of characters) calc (perform a given operation on two integers) factorial (calculate the factorial of a positive integer) primes (generate and print a list of primes) Usage information and equivalent C code (where appropriate) is provided in the comments of each of these files. A menu-driven program demonstrating the above libraries is also provided. Simply call make run in the project root directory to run the demo program. Interpreter A very minimal (only 222 bytes in size) SUBLEQ interpreter written in C is available: _____________ What everyday operations do you have in mind? |
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Below is a "Hello world" program adapted from Lawrence Woodman helloworld.sq [10]. It is exceptionally terse, but is a good example of Subleq efficiency. L:H (-1); U L; U ?+2; Z H (-1); Z Z L . U:-1 H:"hello, world\n" Z:0 A special variable called Z is often used in Subleq as an intermediate temporary variable within a highly small scope. It is commonly assumed that this variable is initialised at zero and left at zero after every usage. The program above consists of five instructions. First instruction prints the character pointed by its first operand (the first pointer) which is initialised to the beginning of the data string – the letter ’h’. Second instruction increments that pointer – the first operand of the first instruction. Third instruction increments the second pointer, which is the second operand of the fourth instruction. Fourth instruction tests the value pointed by the second pointer and halts the program when the value is zero. It becomes zero when the pointer reaches the cell one after the end of the data string, which is Z:0. The fifth instruction loops back to the beginning Come on. It's academic. You have to do a lot more to do everyday operations. Check out http://da.vidr.cc/projects/subleq/Is it really just academic theoretical? They explain how they made C compiler in PDF, there is a chip that implements this I only know about this from when I found it, and not sure if it is usable, but if there is a C compiler for it, then it sure sounds usable to me. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Higher_Subleqhere is source to C compiler: http://mazonka.com/subleq/hsq.cppJames |
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Below is a "Hello world" program adapted from Lawrence Woodman helloworld.sq [10]. It is exceptionally terse, but is a good example of Subleq efficiency. L:H (-1); U L; U ?+2; Z H (-1); Z Z L . U:-1 H:"hello, world\n" Z:0 A special variable called Z is often used in Subleq as an intermediate temporary variable within a highly small scope. It is commonly assumed that this variable is initialised at zero and left at zero after every usage. The program above consists of five instructions. First instruction prints the character pointed by its first operand (the first pointer) which is initialised to the beginning of the data string – the letter ’h’. Second instruction increments that pointer – the first operand of the first instruction. Third instruction increments the second pointer, which is the second operand of the fourth instruction. Fourth instruction tests the value pointed by the second pointer and halts the program when the value is zero. It becomes zero when the pointer reaches the cell one after the end of the data string, which is Z:0. The fifth instruction loops back to the beginning
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I think I win contest  Subtract and branch if less than or equal to zero[edit] The subleq instruction ("SUbtract and Branch if Less than or EQual to zero") subtracts the contents at address a from the contents at address b, stores the result at address b, and then, if the result is not positive, transfers control to address c (if the result is positive, execution proceeds to the next instruction in sequence).[3]:4-7 Pseudocode: subleq a, b, c ; Mem = Mem - Mem[a]
; if (Mem ≤ 0) goto c
Conditional branching can be suppressed by setting the third operand equal to the address of the next instruction in sequence. If the third operand is not written, this suppression is implied.
A variant is also possible with two operands and an internal accumulator, where the accumulator is subtracted from the memory location specified by the first operand. The result is stored in both the accumulator and the memory location, and the second operand specifies the branch address:
subleq2 a, b ; Mem[a] = Mem[a] - ACCUM
; ACCUM = Mem[a]
; if (Mem[a] ≤ 0) goto b
Although this uses only two (instead of three) operands per instruction, correspondingly more instructions are then needed to effect various logical operations.
Synthesized instructions[edit]
It is possible to synthesize many types of higher-order instructions using only the subleq instruction.[3]:9-10
Unconditional branch:
JMP c == subleq Z, Z, c
Addition can be performed by repeated subtraction, with no conditional branching; e.g., the following instructions result in the content at location a being added to the content at location b:
ADD a, b == subleq a, Z
subleq Z, b
subleq Z, Z
The first instruction subtracts the content at location a from the content at location Z (which is 0) and stores the result (which is the negative of the content at a) in location Z. The second instruction subtracts this result from b, storing in b this difference (which is now the sum of the contents originally at a and b); the third instruction restores the value 0 to Z.
A copy instruction can be implemented similarly; e.g., the following instructions result in the content at location b getting replaced by the content at location a, again assuming the content at location Z is maintained as 0:
MOV a, b == subleq b, b
subleq a, Z
subleq Z, b
subleq Z, Z
Any desired arithmetic test can be built. For example, a branch-if-zero condition can be assembled from the following instructions:
BEQ b, c == subleq b, Z, L1
subleq Z, Z, OUT
L1: subleq Z, Z
subleq Z, b, c
OUT: ...
Subleq2 can also be used to synthesize higher-order instructions, although it generally requires more operations for a given task. For example no fewer than 10 subleq2 instructions are required to flip all the bits in a given byte:
NOT a == subleq2 tmp ; tmp = 0 (tmp = temporary register)
subleq2 tmp
subleq2 minus_one ; acc = -1
subleq2 a ; a' = a + 1
subleq2 Z ; Z = - a - 1
subleq2 tmp ; tmp = a + 1
subleq2 a ; a' = 0
subleq2 tmp ; load tmp into acc
subleq2 a ; a' = - a - 1 ( = ~a )
subleq2 Z ; set Z back to 0
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Why not? Ethereum code could send transactions. Sounds legit to me.
If you say, external data should be embedded into the blockchain then u use an external interface to get this data.
Internal is just the 'memory'. The RAM of the virtual env.
If u let scripts to ask for data from external world then u won't be able to achieve 1000 tps. External world is supposed to push data into the blockchain, scripts pulling the data from external world is a bad way. So the script will be able to access any AM in the blockchain. The app needs to seed the script with the required block#, etc. Will the scripts have an easy way to access alias data also? If so, that could be another way to pass data to the script |
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2,000 XCP for sale @ 0.011
PM me if interested
Serious buyers only.
You have these orders available on the Distributed exchange, meaning that you will pay a premium to buy via spreadsheet (but it's indeed easier) 3149 1NP89QwRSZsyyzHbZ56DdULwjdDiuG6ZZk 8.5 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00849845482641065 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3148 1FYRPCTwwdk7TbujfxpJYBPBxoDtAVgpxm 8.3 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00829849118343628 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3147 1BLZKAsooFKSgfViZy5Nd4SkF9fkFtJ9gB 8.4 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00839847300492346 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3146 1KBNEiTW6frJeQyEtqSwoz8XbbS5zXBF5m 8.2 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.0081985093619491 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3145 1GMFpxe4LBH566j5aQnbGSQ2xr6ox6C6TC 7.8 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00779858207600036 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3144 1FKRJhRsS9ZEvYiyhPwKQqDA6U4w1AkDzf 7.7 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00769860025451318 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3143 1HE7cVDjBiL2waUiPRm6puCskjSJT51Dsf 8.1 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00809852754046191 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3142 1G63zk53YuwsYdu6x149iE7sLDndmgQLCG 7.6 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00759861843302599 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3141 1NEwLeKqXbDpcMRzqDKoXkmm9r7HgzmoWc 8 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00799854571897473 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain 3140 16H3V83hNeA1HoTBqqnyYHR9vpmZ6a5Yxh 7.9 BTC 1000.18181818 XCP 0.00789856389748754 BTC/XCP 1000 1000.18181818 XCP remain it seems over 3000 XCP has been sold since this post. Did it actually sell, or were the orders cancelled? |
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How do I run DEX ?
You don't run a Distributed Exchange. You just issue an order on the blockchain via conterpartyd It's quite technical, command line based, and involve reindexing the complete bitcoin blockchain before doing anything, that's why that's why most just wait for a GUI to be released around mid February, or buy via PM/spreadsheet it is not that technical, just follow the directions (which could be documented better). Not any harder than using a VCR... How do you set that VCR clock, still flashes 12:00 |
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Very interesting. Could be very useful for average users.
Just one question now, how about there's a reorganization after a checkpoint is setup? There has to be a scheme to invalidate the checkpoint in a short time. Maybe associate the checkpoint with the block hash.
Do you mean that you can only "unlock" the checkpoint with the actual latest block hash? Interesting. Could I suggest a very crude "solution" - the checkpoint doesn't necessarily need to be the very latest snapshot of the Counterparty system. If the checkpoint was always at least even 1 hour old (6-ish blocks ago) the likelihood of a reorganization affecting blocks that far back would be incredibly low. Also, since the Counterparty Checkpoint DAC runs across multiple machines and a block-chain reorganization is a local client occurrence, the DAC could actually determine when your bitcoind requires a reorganization and postpone the rolling out of the checkpoint. Even if it is a day old, we avoid 17 hours. 17 hours is a LONG time |
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One of the main reasons: Simplified Payment Verification (see the bitcoin whitepaper Section 8 ) becomes not usable. Since the miner will not verify whether a XCP transaction is valid like they do in bitcoin transactions, to check the validity of a XCP transaction, we have to track up to the very beginning (the address sent to burn address). This requires each client to download and keep the whole blockchain. In Ethereum, they seems to find a way to solve this problem. Detail can be found in their whitepaper: http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.htmlPersonally, I don't think this is something will make Mastercoin/XCP not usable. It just increases the downloading and parsing time. Would it be possible to have a checkpoint file that is signed by the XCP devs that clients could load instead of the entire blockchain? For ease of use, this is almost a requirement as few normal people will wait for hours and hours for the initial sync up It's possible, but it will not be decentralized if there's a checkpoint. People has to trust the one who publish the checkpoint. However, I think it could be very useful to provide some trustworthy services keeping some snapshots, therefore most average users can choose to trust these services and shortcut their parsing and verification. Those trustworthy services cannot cheat others for a long time as long as there're some independent clients choose to verify transactions all by themselves. Could the network provide feedback on any checkpointed file to make sure it is valid? Presumably there will always be counterpartyd's that parsed the full blockchain, so before any checkpoint file is trusted locally and used, it could make sure it is valid by checking with the overall network. Assuming it is published on counterparty.co, matches sig, odds are very good it is valid, plus it is only for initial install. So, after quick install, check with network to make sure nobody goofed when uploading the checkpoint file. If it all checks out, then BAM! we saved 17 hours of blockchain sync time without any risk James The problem is that even if we use a checkpoint, the size of a checkpoint file for counterparty will be much larger than a checkpoint of BTC. A checkpoint of BTC is just the hash of current block, but a checkpoint of counterparty has to snapshot the balance of each address and the status of each order, bid, broadcast etc. Confused. Doesnt it take something like 17 hours on initial install now? How long can it take to download 1 gig? |
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Well, okay. You could pay per operation.
Yes, I like it too. More importantly, we need to define its external interfaces. Say: In NXT: transactions allowed? messages allowed? etc. Even further: emails allowed? tweets allowed? etc. External interfaces r not allowed. If a script needs external data then it should be embedded into the blockchain using AM, aliases or something else. Will a script be able to store data into an AM and then be able to access it a future block? Data continuity is needed for scripts that interact with external blockchains. |
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Any chance for a guy like me to be on the tech committee?
Can we see some qualifications?  I can beat you at a game of chess |
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On a slightly different point, ie real-world identities of the committee members, in case they decide to make a run for Costa Rica.
I'm assuming that everyone is happy to provide ID/address/telephone nr information to a few trusted individuals, but not to the entire community. Yep ? But who do you trust with your ID info?
I'm prepared to act as one of the ID verification agents, both to check that committee members ID info is correct and to store that info in strict confidentiality unless needed in the event of a problem.
We'll need to work out procedures for this, for example to set conditions for the release of ID info, and to establish an escalation procedure if one of the committee members gets up to something dodgy (or just goes away suddenly, like CfB and his appendix recently)
I'm also completely OK with revealing my ID details to anyone who stores their ID info with me.
Think we will need 2 or 3 ID verification agents, in case one is not available for whatever reason.
Let me know what u think, and also think about proposing some other people as ID verification agents.
By separating funds access from funds allocation, we remove the need to know about anyones identity. I want to make sure we hear ALL the best ideas. Let the best idea win. Who cares about what the passport of the person who has the best idea is??? If we lose a SINGLE person due to ID requirement, that is one person too many. If a committee member misses a vote, we just give a warning. Three warnings and then off the committee. Simple, easy, no ID required James |
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Will the Turing code be able to invoke higher level functions like "escrow NXT from acct to acct", "release escrow txid", "send DOGE", etc.
I think it's a bad idea. The language should have simple operations with near-equal consumption of resources. In this case it will be easy to assess fee required for contract execution. Time used should be the key, maybe adjust it for CPU speed of forging node. Current swap state would need to be put into blockchain so next forging node can pick up where it left off, but we can limit memory space. I am envisioning services provided by code running on the hub servers, so it is feasible to have 20 different altcoind's running and ready to be called. Also, anything else we can think of can be encapsulated into a function call. Need to be able to suspend a script after time limit anyway, otherwise infinite loop will be bad problem James Resource/fee consumption must be forger-agnostic. OK, 1 NXT per runtime context where it actually does anything. Getting context just to check status and not do anything could be free, if there was an initial cost to cover this overhead. Maybe part of submitting a script to the network could include frequency or other global variables, not all scripts need to run every block. I realize this contaminates the purity of the language, but I am just trying to make it easy for people to write scripts. Look at metatrader. They made global variables out of all the commonly needed data, eg. recent prices at various resolutions. That made it so thousands of EA (expert advisors they are called) were written. I want to support direct blockchain trading for all the other coins, so triggers to activate a script could reference any of the other blockchains. If there was a way to interconnect different scripts, then there could be a master script that runs and then conditionally triggers other scripts only when needed. We are behind etherium, so we need to leap past them by implementing low level primitives that allow immediate implementation of actually useful functionality. Decentralized trustless trading of any crypto against any other crypto. That I am sure will be big. James |
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