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541  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Facebook is launching '' FaceCoin ''' on: June 02, 2018, 05:25:43 PM
The "FaceCoin " will someday be a reality. According to many repoprts Mark Zuckerberg's social network would consider creating his own virtual tokens to facilitate paid transactions on his platform that now has some 2 billion user . For this matter Facebook has assembled a team dedicated to the technology of the blockchain. It is directed by David Marcus, former Messenger boss and former president of Paypal.

https://cheddar.com/videos/facebook-plans-to-create-its-own-cryptocurrency

I did not hear any news about Facebook creating a coin called Facecoin. Maybe this is a fake project of someone targeting fraudulent money of people. People should not invest in this project
542  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is the world’s 6th largest currency on: June 02, 2018, 05:24:22 PM
I think to 2020 it will become No1 and the most popular currency in Europe and Asia  Wink
That is also what I want. But if bitcoin wants to be the number one currency in Europe and Asia, it is imperative that all countries in Europe and Asia accept bitcoin. But this will take a long time for countries to trust bitcoin
543  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: how to start trading ? on: June 01, 2018, 01:04:42 PM
i am very new to trading and would like to learn how to trade
...not sure where to start ... any suggestions would be very helpful ...
whats the best way to get the knowledge in this field ?
thank you
There are lots of trading guides or you can also search google. I think there are many useful videos that will help you to better your trading. Alternatively, you can spend some money on some trading courses
544  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: How to gain income from crypto 1k$/month on: June 01, 2018, 01:02:34 PM
I set a goal to reach incom from crypto 1k$/month to live on this earnings and do things that i'm interested in. What would you advise, how could i reach my goal this year?
The best way to earn $ 1000 in a month is to participate in bounty campaigns. You can join campaigns like signatures, translations, videos and twitter campaigns. I believe you will earn more than $ 1000
545  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 5 countries that banned bitcoin on: May 31, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
COUNTRIES THAT BANNED BITCOIN

Before we start to our topic this I want to tell that some of you might know about this but I just wanna share this to those who are not.

                Several people believe that bitcoin was a blessing and it was an opportunity
for everyone but not everyone shares the sentiment. From central banks and other finance company, Bitcoin's list of detractors runs for a very long time and gone so deep.But most of the government around the world seeks for the regulation of bitcoin.

                Be due to fear,ignorance and protectionism, governments have a tendency to legislate against perceived threats.Countries such as japan protects its citizens to have free trade of the digital currency.But unfortunately not all countries embracing the change of our technology.In some cases citizens have had their assets seized,accounts got frozen and have been locked up, Government can't stop the blockchain from propagating, but they can stop their people in having access to it.

STOP THE BITCOIN!!

               Like banning drugs,alcohol and other stuffs banning bitcoin sounds nonsensical and unforceable.That's the exact case in five countries:

1.Bangladesh
2.Bolivia
3.Ecuador
4.Kyrgyzstan
5.Nepal

It was recently reported in https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-illegal-in-nepal-police-arrest-seven-individuals-for-trading-operations/
that there were dozens of bitcoin and crypto enthusiasts get imprison seemingly guilty of little more than operating a small-scale bitcoin exchange.

Meanwhile Ecuador has outlawed bitcoin, nit because they opposed this crypto but because they want to regulate and control it and tether it with the Ecuadorian dollar.An Electronic money designed to operate ad support monetary scheme dollarization.Completing the naughty list of countries that have banned bitcoin is Kyrgyzstan, a tiny landlocked state in Central Asia,
And Bangladesh banned bitcoin, it was 2014 where Bangladesh bank stated that anyone that will be caught using such online currency could be jailed mostly because it's about "MONEY LAUNDERING".


this was already an old news for updated list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory


so what do you think? will your country will ban the use of bitcoin?
do you know other countries that ban the bitcoins?
Please share it and tell to everyone Smiley
I never paid attention to those countries lagging behind electronic technology. Countries that do not accept Bitcoins are mostly poor and small. They do not know that Bitcoin will help their country become rich
546  Economy / Speculation / Re: Right time to buy bitcoin "again" ??? on: May 31, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
Is there first if bitcoin Will incur rise? After a few weeks of downtrend, is this a good time to add investment to bitcoin?

It's right on the dip, or still There will be a second, third or even worse dip?

Give your opinion on this.
Thanks
Based on the chart in May, I think Bitcoin prices are bottoming out in 2018. Bitcoin prices are expected to rise sharply by the end of this year and hope prices will rise more than last year
547  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin have more risks than benefits? on: May 31, 2018, 08:50:25 PM
Bank of Spain, in Madrid, says that the bank of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin, it's not worth it, and there are more risks than benefits. There are more innovations and they are having more effect.

Notices: https://traders.fxstockbroker.com/article/use-of-crypto-currencies-has-more-risks-than-benefits-bank-of-spain-head
             https://www.compuserve.com/news/world/story/0002/20180523/KCN1IO0YB_1


What is your opinion?


There was a lot more horrible news for Bitcoin. but despite having gone through a lot of bad news and bitcoin still ranked number one in the crypto market. So I think bitcoin is immortal
548  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Don't hold Bitcoin for long time. on: May 30, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
I do not like long-term investments in the crypto market. It makes more sense to make money by buying and selling.
I make more money by buying and selling.
It is necessary to follow the market constantly.
No, you should not have such negative thoughts. Long-term investment in the crypto market is heavily used. and almost all earn money through long-term investment
549  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: except for bitcoin,what is your prefer? on: May 28, 2018, 06:32:59 PM
As we all know,bitcoin is the most famous in digital virtual currency.
with the effect of national policy,bitcoin is hurt.
Change the angle,if the bitcoin is banned,who can replace,even do better than it?
Do you have the suitable choice in your heart?
Just tell us!

If Bitcoin is banned worldwide, it means that electronic money is going to collapse. So no choice would be better when Bitcoin and electronic money disappear
550  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Should I invest in BTC, Altcoin, or ICO on: May 28, 2018, 05:41:10 PM
There are so many New ICO's these day ? Is that safe to invest in ICO ? any 1 invested in 2018 ? 2017 was the year of ICO's but is that still safe to invest ? or how to know which ICO is good to invest ? like GIG9, Eligma, Medicalchain, Trustedthealth
If you want to invest in ICO projects then you have to research the development team and whirtepaper of the project. If you do not understand well then you will have a lot of trouble with the ICO project
551  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: December 01, 2015, 12:33:09 PM
We'll throw in some money for that ad campaign as well Smiley

BitWalking has yet to solve a lot of problems, including the liquidity and trading. They have $10 mill in funding, and so far it seems most of it is going to advertising. But as far as we have seen, they don't have any threads going on anywhere. They only have interested short term profit "miners". Let's see how will they get people to buy their coin. It's easy to get people to mine for "free money" we know that, but getting people to buy a centralized coin is a whole other story. Maybe we should focus a bit more on encouraging regular people to sometimes buy MCZ if we build an in-app marketplace. So for example you are missing some coins to buy new shoes and you really want them, so you decide to buy the rest of the coins and not mine them. Something like that can possibly help MCZ.
552  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: October 27, 2015, 09:53:54 PM
Just to make sure everyone saw the link to the new thread here it is again : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1221198.new#new

Hope to see you there Smiley
553  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz (official) - The mobile crypto currency on: October 27, 2015, 08:14:50 PM
SCAM ALERT!
DO NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THIS COIN!
Read the whole post to understand! Some things may be technical at first, but I hope everyone will understand.

I have been silently reading the previous announcement thread since a few weeks now and have to say I'm surprised by how many people think this "coin" will yield anything good. Why do I think so follows:
- Centralized architecture, it's a huge red flag already. Devs can manipulate coin amount anytime they want. They can issue new coins from nothing. (The coin amount counter is running on their server, that data means nothing.) Given this much control they can manipulate the price any way they want, the fact they didn't do it just shows their incompetence in this field. Seriously, they could be rich already. The "blockchain" viewer also runs on their server, same here, it cannot be trusted. By the way, there isn't even a blockchain probably. It would make no sense with this setup. It's just a plain old database with the syncs stored. There are other problems with centralization though: a DDoS could bring the entire system down. (Currently, I would bet 90 % the server doesn't have DDoS protection.) A hacker could get into the server, issue random coins to random accounts, delete everything from the database (yeah, there are backups probably (if there are lol), but the outage and rollback would still be disastrous if the "coin" would get popular). They could also leak all user data depending on what is stored. Some simple misconfiguration could also bring the system down. Such an environment should be extremely robust. And I didn't even mention scaling: if this would get very popular, it would need scaling and since you're dealing with transactions and syncs you can't go NoSQL. Transaction management in a high-scale environment is really hard, banks have dedicated teams to do it.
- Syncs - wait what??? So without any kind of proof I can get stuff worth money? Hell yeah! Before you say it's mining: No, it isn't! There's an app checking accelerometer data and sending the server how much movement occurred. How about faking accelerometer data? Actually, since code is running on users' devices, it can be altered or fed fake data anytime. No, obfuscation won't help either. There are many ways to defeat it. Let's go through a few! Device software can be modified to provide data what I want. Virtual machines could be spawned to do the same, or some hybrid solution, virtualizing only the app. Possibilities are endless! One can modify the application itself to do what they want. One could create bots by reverse engineering the functionality and writing a program to mimic it. TOR and proxies would give them thousands of individual "miners" generating lots of "coins" every day (even if devs implemented TOR or proxy detection, they can't detect all proxies (see private ones) or one with a small-sized botnet could use totally legit IP addresses which you cannot filter (this is plausible, especially if you think about such groups, they would also have the capacity to maintain a solid bot)). The problem is that there is NO PROOF OF WORK/STAKE/ETC. mechanism. It simply trusts the environment and this is a huge no-go in cryptocurrency.
- The app - Even though I'm no expert in the field, it took me roughly half an hour reading about the APK decompilation process and doing it. Noticed the core parts are in a native library, finally something interesting. I already know why the app has (/had, newest one is said to be stable) so many bugs and crashes reported by other members. Sure, writing it in all Java would have revealed how there is no real proof for validating syncs, but the devs aren't competent enough probably to deal with C or C++ and implement a proper bug-free code natively. No, do not say it's a beta, it's still unacceptable.
- Closed source - Devs say the infrastructure is closed source because if it would be open, scammers would create clones and saturate the market. This is such a ridiculous contradiction. Cheesy Devs are the very scammers here. Yes, they say they are honest (why say it anyway? people either trust you or don't), but we cannot know this honesty will keep up later on. Also, what if a new member in the dev team comes and they won't be? This leads to another question - how many devs are there in the team anyway? Two? Three? (In a post one of them said they got another member.) Total lack of transparency. This does nothing good in the cryptocurrency ecosystem among lots of scammers. Also, open sourcing the app would reveal all the flaws I already mentioned.
- Mainly just to make an interesting point: The API - Without knowing much about the details, the API for integrating third-party systems works as follows: First of all, it's not open. You need to contact the dev team, supply them information about the system you're building, you have to prove that you're part of the team that's developing this particular system (read it somewhere on another forum) then you get the documentation which probably entails the following: You need to connect to the central server through some obscure HTTP(S)-based methods. UseCryptos had to integrate this system, that's why it took so long from initial announcement to actually get an up and running system. Why is this bad? First, it really slows down development time if you want to support this "coin", which is not something developers can allow themselves. This results in lower adaption rate as nobody would like to spend time for this specific coin when they can get up and running with all other JSONRPC coins in a few minutes. Bitcoin introduced the JSONRPC API and since lot of other coins are based on that, they too include it. BUT: Other, totally custom coded coins also include this API for the sake of good integration capabilities. They keep up with standards. The thing is, people have already written many wrappers and helper libraries so it really is a breeze to work with. Also, this approvement for every service is good now, but what if you got tens or hundreds of requests a day later? How would you cope with it? Also, since all of these services connect to the same server, making lots of requests, this also will increase server and bandwidth load. Got to scaling again...
- Getting popular - Seriously, I do not care if some people in the early (especially beta) days lose money. Heck, I wouldn't have written up all these (yeah, took a lot of time...) if I didn't think about the future. My problem is mainly the following: The "coin" is aimed at the masses, especially running clubs. These people know nothing about the workings of the system and they trust it. Also, traders on cryptocurrency exchanges put money into it and get scammed by those gaming the system. And here I have to say it again: They cannot secure the system against gaming. The design simply does not allow it. It would need a proper proof algorithm, but in the sense of running and acceleration checking it cannot be designed by our current knowledge (I also was thinking about it, it's a no-go.). One cannot simply trust code running on a user device. No matter how much obfuscation the devs do, if there is big money in it, people will hack it. This is not even something to talk about, it's fact.
- PayPal payout - Simply put, PayPal sees cryptocurrencies as one of its direct concurrency and disables accounts trading coins if it finds out. Even though Mango is not a cryptocurrency, I don't think they'll like it if it gets popular. This would not be a problem, but this option is there to make things simple (people don't have to deal with exchanges) and

I refer to it as "coin", because this is not a coin in terms of standard naming. Not at least here on BitcoinTalk. This site is about cryptocurrencies which have proper cryptographic algorithms to ensure mining hasn't been tampered with. I would rather call it a token if I were to give a description.


Some things you say are true, most aren't. Reading up on general purpose tech and having a premise that every system only works on the worst and lowest version of the tech type it uses is just bad. The problems you have mentioned are, simply put, problems that any architecture of that type has. Do you keep your money in a bank or under your bedsheets? Think twice if it's a bank.
But that doesn't mean you can't get the 99% efficiency.

We have invested a lot of money and time into this project, we have been through a lot of bad and nice stuff with our community. If you are indeed someone who has read the old thread, you would know that all the stuff present now will only get better in the future. We said we will move towards open source and decentralization. We delivered before. We will on this as well.
Once the thread gets rolling, we will present our plans.

Please don't mistake our honesty for incompetence.
Made an account just so you can post here?

I said nothing about the worst tech, what I wrote regard to the optimal case. You need top stuff to deliver the expected QoS in case of such a system.

"Think twice if it's a bank." - Yes, I only keep the necessary amount in a bank. But this discussion is not about me, I'm not the average in this case. That's not to say I don't trust a bank. The thing is, in some cases you don't have another option. Also, banks employ top security and reliability experts. They have regulatory obligations. Again, this discussion is not about banks in general, but: Most people don't have security concerns. Just imagine a simple runner as they are the main targets They don't care about the system. They trust it as much as they do with a bank. What bad could happen anyway? - they think. But let's examine the emotional side: A club runs for charity for a month to help raising money, but someone games the system and suddenly their coins are worth nothing.

"Made an account just so you can post here?" - Nope, I read the whole old thread and even posted twice. Those posts were also about security. I simply wanted to post my concerns here as you're extending the coin now. There is no problem with the issues as long as there are about 1000 people using it. That's 1000 * (daily limit) * (BTC trade price) * (BTC/USD price) per day (not considering multi-accounts) and it's not a huge amount. But if it's 100k people and BTC trade price is 100x the current one, it's significant money and it will be worth gaming the system. So yeah, I mainly posted it here so people stumble upon the truth hoping at least they scroll down reading the first page.

@barabbas: The reason I started with "Scam alert" is to get people's attention. Most wouldn't care about a long post otherwise.

@everyone: Reading again, my previous post looks a bit harsh and rude at some places, sorry for that.

Thank you for apologizing, that is very kind of you. I'm sorry for my reply to you as well, it came off a bit rude. I apologize.
You are right, the system would be worth gaming in the case that you described. But we won't be sitting around with thumbs up our behinds and wait for it. We are making changes every day, and we are moving towards a system that's worth everyone's time and investment. And we would like people to see this thread and this coin even now, stick around, give some nice suggestions and show support (not money-wise) and witness all the changes and the final incarnation that will be considered amazing. That's our dream, what we move towards. A lot of stuff needs solving on that road, yeah but we can all do it together. It's fun Smiley

Thanks for dropping by.
554  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz (official) - The mobile crypto currency on: October 27, 2015, 05:06:16 PM
Great looking project i will install app on my iphone Smiley

Contact us at support@mangocoinz.com Smiley
555  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz (official) - The mobile crypto currency on: October 27, 2015, 11:56:16 AM
SCAM ALERT!
DO NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THIS COIN!
Read the whole post to understand! Some things may be technical at first, but I hope everyone will understand.

I have been silently reading the previous announcement thread since a few weeks now and have to say I'm surprised by how many people think this "coin" will yield anything good. Why do I think so follows:
- Centralized architecture, it's a huge red flag already. Devs can manipulate coin amount anytime they want. They can issue new coins from nothing. (The coin amount counter is running on their server, that data means nothing.) Given this much control they can manipulate the price any way they want, the fact they didn't do it just shows their incompetence in this field. Seriously, they could be rich already. The "blockchain" viewer also runs on their server, same here, it cannot be trusted. By the way, there isn't even a blockchain probably. It would make no sense with this setup. It's just a plain old database with the syncs stored. There are other problems with centralization though: a DDoS could bring the entire system down. (Currently, I would bet 90 % the server doesn't have DDoS protection.) A hacker could get into the server, issue random coins to random accounts, delete everything from the database (yeah, there are backups probably (if there are lol), but the outage and rollback would still be disastrous if the "coin" would get popular). They could also leak all user data depending on what is stored. Some simple misconfiguration could also bring the system down. Such an environment should be extremely robust. And I didn't even mention scaling: if this would get very popular, it would need scaling and since you're dealing with transactions and syncs you can't go NoSQL. Transaction management in a high-scale environment is really hard, banks have dedicated teams to do it.
- Syncs - wait what??? So without any kind of proof I can get stuff worth money? Hell yeah! Before you say it's mining: No, it isn't! There's an app checking accelerometer data and sending the server how much movement occurred. How about faking accelerometer data? Actually, since code is running on users' devices, it can be altered or fed fake data anytime. No, obfuscation won't help either. There are many ways to defeat it. Let's go through a few! Device software can be modified to provide data what I want. Virtual machines could be spawned to do the same, or some hybrid solution, virtualizing only the app. Possibilities are endless! One can modify the application itself to do what they want. One could create bots by reverse engineering the functionality and writing a program to mimic it. TOR and proxies would give them thousands of individual "miners" generating lots of "coins" every day (even if devs implemented TOR or proxy detection, they can't detect all proxies (see private ones) or one with a small-sized botnet could use totally legit IP addresses which you cannot filter (this is plausible, especially if you think about such groups, they would also have the capacity to maintain a solid bot)). The problem is that there is NO PROOF OF WORK/STAKE/ETC. mechanism. It simply trusts the environment and this is a huge no-go in cryptocurrency.
- The app - Even though I'm no expert in the field, it took me roughly half an hour reading about the APK decompilation process and doing it. Noticed the core parts are in a native library, finally something interesting. I already know why the app has (/had, newest one is said to be stable) so many bugs and crashes reported by other members. Sure, writing it in all Java would have revealed how there is no real proof for validating syncs, but the devs aren't competent enough probably to deal with C or C++ and implement a proper bug-free code natively. No, do not say it's a beta, it's still unacceptable.
- Closed source - Devs say the infrastructure is closed source because if it would be open, scammers would create clones and saturate the market. This is such a ridiculous contradiction. Cheesy Devs are the very scammers here. Yes, they say they are honest (why say it anyway? people either trust you or don't), but we cannot know this honesty will keep up later on. Also, what if a new member in the dev team comes and they won't be? This leads to another question - how many devs are there in the team anyway? Two? Three? (In a post one of them said they got another member.) Total lack of transparency. This does nothing good in the cryptocurrency ecosystem among lots of scammers. Also, open sourcing the app would reveal all the flaws I already mentioned.
- Mainly just to make an interesting point: The API - Without knowing much about the details, the API for integrating third-party systems works as follows: First of all, it's not open. You need to contact the dev team, supply them information about the system you're building, you have to prove that you're part of the team that's developing this particular system (read it somewhere on another forum) then you get the documentation which probably entails the following: You need to connect to the central server through some obscure HTTP(S)-based methods. UseCryptos had to integrate this system, that's why it took so long from initial announcement to actually get an up and running system. Why is this bad? First, it really slows down development time if you want to support this "coin", which is not something developers can allow themselves. This results in lower adaption rate as nobody would like to spend time for this specific coin when they can get up and running with all other JSONRPC coins in a few minutes. Bitcoin introduced the JSONRPC API and since lot of other coins are based on that, they too include it. BUT: Other, totally custom coded coins also include this API for the sake of good integration capabilities. They keep up with standards. The thing is, people have already written many wrappers and helper libraries so it really is a breeze to work with. Also, this approvement for every service is good now, but what if you got tens or hundreds of requests a day later? How would you cope with it? Also, since all of these services connect to the same server, making lots of requests, this also will increase server and bandwidth load. Got to scaling again...
- Getting popular - Seriously, I do not care if some people in the early (especially beta) days lose money. Heck, I wouldn't have written up all these (yeah, took a lot of time...) if I didn't think about the future. My problem is mainly the following: The "coin" is aimed at the masses, especially running clubs. These people know nothing about the workings of the system and they trust it. Also, traders on cryptocurrency exchanges put money into it and get scammed by those gaming the system. And here I have to say it again: They cannot secure the system against gaming. The design simply does not allow it. It would need a proper proof algorithm, but in the sense of running and acceleration checking it cannot be designed by our current knowledge (I also was thinking about it, it's a no-go.). One cannot simply trust code running on a user device. No matter how much obfuscation the devs do, if there is big money in it, people will hack it. This is not even something to talk about, it's fact.
- PayPal payout - Simply put, PayPal sees cryptocurrencies as one of its direct concurrency and disables accounts trading coins if it finds out. Even though Mango is not a cryptocurrency, I don't think they'll like it if it gets popular. This would not be a problem, but this option is there to make things simple (people don't have to deal with exchanges) and

I refer to it as "coin", because this is not a coin in terms of standard naming. Not at least here on BitcoinTalk. This site is about cryptocurrencies which have proper cryptographic algorithms to ensure mining hasn't been tampered with. I would rather call it a token if I were to give a description.

Some VERY valid points, no question about it. But screaming "Scam Alert" kind of devalues them because, so far, there's no basis for such alarmist terminology. Mangocoinz is what it is, the good the bad and the ugly. And yes, it cannot be trusted. Then again, NOT a single cryptocurrency can. Not one. Not even Bitcoin. Simply put -as you adequately put it- "it is a FACT". So, on that preamble and frame, Mangocoinz, as an investment, es neither more secure nor less secure than an y other crypto currency. And yes, to cal it COIN -or "coinz"-, just like calling it cryptocurrency, is simply not adequate and I'm sure the developers chose it instead of "token" of whatever other term for unity of value can apply. This is, in idea, an "alternative currency". A CENTRALIZED one at that. For good, bad and in-between.

Can it be "gamed"? of course it can be. It probably is. It probably has been. It SURELY will. Will the developers game it themselves? That's for you to decide if to trust them or not. And for the rest of the community.

Those are NOT the main problems of this project. They are simply circumstances of it. As long as the total number of coins is not altered, the value would depend on the popularity and usability: What can you purchase with those coins that you either "mine" or buy in the exchanges? Is it something you put a big value on? Then they would be VERY valuable. You cannot buy anything of interest with it and the trading value is minimal in terms of BTC or others? then you have yet another failed project, whether scam, incompetence, or just lack of interest.That's all.

You are, again, right, very right, in mentioning that a new (fourth) developer seems to have come on board. Someone of whom no one knows anything. That, obviously, doesn't lend a lot of trustfulness to the project, which, being 100% centralized -and make no mistake about this: There's no other way possible for this project, now or ever, therefore I don't understand the pretense that they will work toward decentralization...-, is absolutely indispensable for the community to know and meet. Total transparency, in this case, is not a requirement only, it's a necessity.

You also don't want to hear "but it's beta"... well, still is, sorry. Even if this new thread comes with the pretense that, technically, they are done. They aren't. If there's no SECURITY -outside of the centralized system-, then it is alpha, not even beta, for no one will ever put any kind of serious money in something that is sure to be hacked and robbed. It's THAT simple. But it is also beta in that we so far don't even know where the developers are aiming. I hear ideas, nice, interesting ones, but  
nothing specific, concrete, let alone already implemented. The merchandising idea is not just the obvious but the main -along with the sponsorships- attraction of this project in the beginning, but talking about it and implementing it EFFECTIVELY, are two very different things. So lets wait a bit and see what comes out of those ideas barely mentioned  and what the final purpose of the whole project is, because I don't see it at all yet. I have asked, since the very beginning, AND THEN WHAT? I still don't have any answers, therefore it remains beta, an idea, perhaps chimeric, a path full of difficulties ahead and, when the total number of coins are "mined", "THEN WHAT?"

I was VERY supportive of this project, as everyone in the community knows. I have gotten considerably cold since I saw that not only the kids did not have a real plan but were very, very reluctant to open the gates so to speak to let the people with the means and knowledge in. Now, Srele even posts that they have "invested a lot of money" in this... this from three guys that didn't have a dime to their names and couldn't even afford an IPhone to work on the application... again, not a whole lot of trust gained with such statements that, if nothing else, indicate that the underhand is up for the taking. I also brought to question the net transfer fees, which are excessive... to no answer, no avail. So, although I remain supportive of Mangocoinz, my investment has been drastically reduced and my support is lukewarm while I keep observing the developments. I never ever lie and I'd be lying if I'd say that I like all or most of what I see here.

And the decentralization of the project, again, is NOT, a problem to me. On the contrary, actually.

One final thought regarding the new thread: The animated gif is horrible. Not just bad: horrible, actually. Aesthetically it cannot possibly make less attractive the exercise with the phone hanging out of the leg. Really, really horrible. The fact that it is men doing the exercise is another horrible choice when women is an evidently more attractive and bigger demographic Mango should pursue... Please take it down asap and susbtitute it for something more endearing and easier on the eye not that horrific image that would turn off immediately any prospective "miner". Please also, don't consider this just "an opinion", alright? That's the easy way out for losers. It is a VERY EXPERT one, ok?


Some nice points made by barabbas. Let me answer some regarding the dev team.

It's true, we are young. Early twenties, to be more accurate. Originally, there were 3 of us. Srele, Micto and myself. After some time we added one of our trusted close friends as a new dev. He is not a member of this forum, never posts anything. The 4 of us are very good friends IRL, we all live in the same city, all went to the same school. That's who we are. If we need more transparency, we will answer anything we can. Let's work on that a little bit.

It's true that we did't have any money when we started this. We couldn't afford an iPhone to work on the app. So we went to our families and other friends for help and we managed to raise some money to keep paying for the servers and to continue development. Servers right now cost us $150 per month, and we are still paying for it out of our own pockets. We are not selling coins in order to pay for expenses. We don't want to take the trading potential from someone else. If we need to disclose how many coins each of us personally holds, we will disclose that as well.

If by net transfer fees, you mean the 1% transaction fee, we will remove that. Since there wasn't any premine, we thought that we needed a way to accumulate some coins just so that we have them for bounties. We even gave out free coins to people that had some account problems.

As for the animated gif, we can replace it with something more pleasing to the eye, we just thought it was nice. Any suggestions on what it should be (a woman will run this time Cheesy)

Let's work on transparency.
556  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz (official) - The mobile crypto currency on: October 26, 2015, 08:14:19 PM
SCAM ALERT!
DO NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THIS COIN!
Read the whole post to understand! Some things may be technical at first, but I hope everyone will understand.

I have been silently reading the previous announcement thread since a few weeks now and have to say I'm surprised by how many people think this "coin" will yield anything good. Why do I think so follows:
- Centralized architecture, it's a huge red flag already. Devs can manipulate coin amount anytime they want. They can issue new coins from nothing. (The coin amount counter is running on their server, that data means nothing.) Given this much control they can manipulate the price any way they want, the fact they didn't do it just shows their incompetence in this field. Seriously, they could be rich already. The "blockchain" viewer also runs on their server, same here, it cannot be trusted. By the way, there isn't even a blockchain probably. It would make no sense with this setup. It's just a plain old database with the syncs stored. There are other problems with centralization though: a DDoS could bring the entire system down. (Currently, I would bet 90 % the server doesn't have DDoS protection.) A hacker could get into the server, issue random coins to random accounts, delete everything from the database (yeah, there are backups probably (if there are lol), but the outage and rollback would still be disastrous if the "coin" would get popular). They could also leak all user data depending on what is stored. Some simple misconfiguration could also bring the system down. Such an environment should be extremely robust. And I didn't even mention scaling: if this would get very popular, it would need scaling and since you're dealing with transactions and syncs you can't go NoSQL. Transaction management in a high-scale environment is really hard, banks have dedicated teams to do it.
- Syncs - wait what??? So without any kind of proof I can get stuff worth money? Hell yeah! Before you say it's mining: No, it isn't! There's an app checking accelerometer data and sending the server how much movement occurred. How about faking accelerometer data? Actually, since code is running on users' devices, it can be altered or fed fake data anytime. No, obfuscation won't help either. There are many ways to defeat it. Let's go through a few! Device software can be modified to provide data what I want. Virtual machines could be spawned to do the same, or some hybrid solution, virtualizing only the app. Possibilities are endless! One can modify the application itself to do what they want. One could create bots by reverse engineering the functionality and writing a program to mimic it. TOR and proxies would give them thousands of individual "miners" generating lots of "coins" every day (even if devs implemented TOR or proxy detection, they can't detect all proxies (see private ones) or one with a small-sized botnet could use totally legit IP addresses which you cannot filter (this is plausible, especially if you think about such groups, they would also have the capacity to maintain a solid bot)). The problem is that there is NO PROOF OF WORK/STAKE/ETC. mechanism. It simply trusts the environment and this is a huge no-go in cryptocurrency.
- The app - Even though I'm no expert in the field, it took me roughly half an hour reading about the APK decompilation process and doing it. Noticed the core parts are in a native library, finally something interesting. I already know why the app has (/had, newest one is said to be stable) so many bugs and crashes reported by other members. Sure, writing it in all Java would have revealed how there is no real proof for validating syncs, but the devs aren't competent enough probably to deal with C or C++ and implement a proper bug-free code natively. No, do not say it's a beta, it's still unacceptable.
- Closed source - Devs say the infrastructure is closed source because if it would be open, scammers would create clones and saturate the market. This is such a ridiculous contradiction. Cheesy Devs are the very scammers here. Yes, they say they are honest (why say it anyway? people either trust you or don't), but we cannot know this honesty will keep up later on. Also, what if a new member in the dev team comes and they won't be? This leads to another question - how many devs are there in the team anyway? Two? Three? (In a post one of them said they got another member.) Total lack of transparency. This does nothing good in the cryptocurrency ecosystem among lots of scammers. Also, open sourcing the app would reveal all the flaws I already mentioned.
- Mainly just to make an interesting point: The API - Without knowing much about the details, the API for integrating third-party systems works as follows: First of all, it's not open. You need to contact the dev team, supply them information about the system you're building, you have to prove that you're part of the team that's developing this particular system (read it somewhere on another forum) then you get the documentation which probably entails the following: You need to connect to the central server through some obscure HTTP(S)-based methods. UseCryptos had to integrate this system, that's why it took so long from initial announcement to actually get an up and running system. Why is this bad? First, it really slows down development time if you want to support this "coin", which is not something developers can allow themselves. This results in lower adaption rate as nobody would like to spend time for this specific coin when they can get up and running with all other JSONRPC coins in a few minutes. Bitcoin introduced the JSONRPC API and since lot of other coins are based on that, they too include it. BUT: Other, totally custom coded coins also include this API for the sake of good integration capabilities. They keep up with standards. The thing is, people have already written many wrappers and helper libraries so it really is a breeze to work with. Also, this approvement for every service is good now, but what if you got tens or hundreds of requests a day later? How would you cope with it? Also, since all of these services connect to the same server, making lots of requests, this also will increase server and bandwidth load. Got to scaling again...
- Getting popular - Seriously, I do not care if some people in the early (especially beta) days lose money. Heck, I wouldn't have written up all these (yeah, took a lot of time...) if I didn't think about the future. My problem is mainly the following: The "coin" is aimed at the masses, especially running clubs. These people know nothing about the workings of the system and they trust it. Also, traders on cryptocurrency exchanges put money into it and get scammed by those gaming the system. And here I have to say it again: They cannot secure the system against gaming. The design simply does not allow it. It would need a proper proof algorithm, but in the sense of running and acceleration checking it cannot be designed by our current knowledge (I also was thinking about it, it's a no-go.). One cannot simply trust code running on a user device. No matter how much obfuscation the devs do, if there is big money in it, people will hack it. This is not even something to talk about, it's fact.
- PayPal payout - Simply put, PayPal sees cryptocurrencies as one of its direct concurrency and disables accounts trading coins if it finds out. Even though Mango is not a cryptocurrency, I don't think they'll like it if it gets popular. This would not be a problem, but this option is there to make things simple (people don't have to deal with exchanges) and

I refer to it as "coin", because this is not a coin in terms of standard naming. Not at least here on BitcoinTalk. This site is about cryptocurrencies which have proper cryptographic algorithms to ensure mining hasn't been tampered with. I would rather call it a token if I were to give a description.


Some things you say are true, most aren't. Reading up on general purpose tech and having a premise that every system only works on the worst and lowest version of the tech type it uses is just bad. The problems you have mentioned are, simply put, problems that any architecture of that type has. Do you keep your money in a bank or under your bedsheets? Think twice if it's a bank.
But that doesn't mean you can't get the 99% efficiency.

We have invested a lot of money and time into this project, we have been through a lot of bad and nice stuff with our community. If you are indeed someone who has read the old thread, you would know that all the stuff present now will only get better in the future. We said we will move towards open source and decentralization. We delivered before. We will on this as well.
Once the thread gets rolling, we will present our plans.

Please don't mistake our honesty for incompetence.
Made an account just so you can post here?
557  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: October 26, 2015, 04:01:25 PM
Guys, we are pleased to announce that the new ANN thread has been published!

Come over and say hi Smiley  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1221198.new#new
558  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: October 24, 2015, 02:53:35 PM
Hey guys!

The new ANN thread will be posted on Monday, 3 pm GMT. Please visit the new thread once it's posted and show us the same support you show here Smiley

Thanks.

Looking forward to seeing you on the new thread Smiley


559  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: October 20, 2015, 12:39:28 PM
Any news of the New ANN thread guys Smiley


It's done. Both the design and the content is finished. We will probably post it today or tomorrow.
560  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MangoCoinz Official ANN Thread - Mine cryptocurrencies on you smart phone on: October 17, 2015, 01:37:48 PM
Thank you all for your opinions and feedback! It's really appreciated.


We believe that the coin price will rise again with the new ANN thread which brings new goals for MCZ. These include marketplaces where you can spend your MCZ for real stuff. It's natural that the coin price drops during a sudden development phase that was as long as ours. Not a lot happens during that time period. But we have the Android app on a stable version. Mining is also easier that before. Fitness users are coming to the iPhone app. Looks good as far as we are concerned. This means fertile grounds for investments. Our new ANN thread will attract more attention and users from this forum as well as investors, the iPhone app with it's fitness story and bridging the gap between the crypto and the "real" world will also attract attention (coming from several sources we spoke to, including people in the US media and YCombinator Cheesy ).

We are not concerned with other mobile coins that might come out or whatever their story is. New coins come out every day, some die and some don't. MCZ was pronounced dead a couple of times too. That's just how it is Smiley


Does anyone want to see the new thread? We can set something up, like a preview, for anyone interested Smiley


Best regards, hang on, and see you on the new thread soon Smiley


P.S keep that feedback, opinions and comments coming. You have no idea how much it helps us. Especially when you give direct feedback on something that we post. Thanks Smiley

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