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541  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 05, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
You guys are entirely too excited about a 1k buy. 6 months ago we used to piss 1k buys around here.
542  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 02, 2013, 08:42:52 AM
Tempted to put my no touchy fiat in at 120...

Anyone have an explanation for this sell?

Easy:

1) A whale wanted in with no slippage (huge bid wall)

2) Eventually another whale who wanted to take a large, no-slippage profit seized the opportunity

3) The market overreacted to the whale mating as expected (whales prefer to mate with no slippage)

Not a bad explanation indeed sir
543  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 02, 2013, 08:40:22 AM
So, anyone wants to guess where we'll stop?

yeah 120 looks to have been (at least temporarily) the bottom.
544  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 02, 2013, 08:34:54 AM
Tempted to put my no touchy fiat in at 120...

Anyone have an explanation for this sell?
545  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 02, 2013, 08:29:19 AM
Pretty random  Huh
546  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 02, 2013, 08:27:38 AM
Wow. The wall has been eaten

No... 1447 BTC sold (to $127), then the 8k wall vanished.

Hmm I'm not so sure, the volume says othewise:

547  Economy / Speculation / Re: Yet another analyst :) on: May 30, 2013, 07:38:57 AM
I'm very skeptical about these so called liquidity problems. Bitcoin was designed for this kind of 'attack'. Besides, there were legitimate reasons for those closes, such as failure to register with proper documentation.

Such as MTGox takes up 3 quarters of the trade volume right now, all we need is two surviving exchanges and we would not see much, if any effect.

As for the bearish trend, we appear to be near a bottoming out point on the overall increasing trend. If we see any price drop under 125 at all, I'm going to buy bitcoins by the hundreds.

Yeah this is not happening. This liquidity issue is nothing in comparison to what is happening in the hype machine in silicon valley. Expect enormous breakouts by the end of the year based on TBD companies emerging adding much more resiliency and functionality.
548  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 29, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

which cash?


Probably USD, as most debts are in this currency.

Brilliantly explained here by Cypherdoc: Gold: I smell a trap.

Interesting that he was choosing the corner at that time, but I think his explanation isnt as clear as it could be. The issue I believe (and I believe Cypher now agrees with me... pls correct me if I'm wrong) is that there is a divergence between the price of ETF's and physical bullion.
549  Economy / Speculation / Re: Fundamental analysis thread on: May 28, 2013, 07:44:06 AM

One piece of data is cumulative, the other is recalculated daily. No surprise that the numbers of transactions fell after the crash of 2013. Expect them to bottom soon and flatline for a few months before heading back up.
550  Economy / Speculation / Re: Fundamental analysis thread on: May 28, 2013, 07:41:30 AM
Why are you not placing bad news on the list? If price falls I'm looking for information why and nothing is on your list (it makes me suspicious that it's biased and not trustworthy because of that).

Read the rest of the thread (jesus, just read this page) to understand why there isnt more bearish info there.

If you are looking for info on why the fall happened yesterday, you just need to know that manipulators are going to manipulate (and sometimes get burned because they failed... like yesterday).
551  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: May 27, 2013, 05:45:35 AM
coinseeker is just another greedy socialist ... he probably wants to make money on bitcoin so he can escape taxes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
552  Economy / Speculation / Re: Fundamental analysis thread on: May 27, 2013, 05:28:06 AM
Bearish price indicator: (You may want to dig deeper to get actual statistical data)

As Ripple gains wider acceptance and usage, it will increase the M2 monetary base of bitcoins (that is, M1 is what is on the blockchain, M2 is M1 + all credit accounts denominated in bitcoins (Not sure if I am using the right M#s, somebody could check that?)), the rising money supply will decrease the price.

While in theory thats possible, I'm far from convinced that Ripple will be widely used.
553  Economy / Speculation / Re: Fundamental analysis thread on: May 25, 2013, 03:12:50 PM
It's not just the lack of bearish fundamentals, it's the very bullish spin on the fundamentals that are shown.

Thing is, much as I approve of balanced evidence, I'm not sure I'd want you to change it because I'm a bull and your list is awesome. Grin

Maybe a bear could volunteer to do a bearish version, and this could be the Bull's fundamental analysis thread? It's much easier to get two opposing biased views to compare against each-other than one unbiased view.

To be honest I would love it if someone would put together a decent bearish fundamental list. Problem is that I've been trying for over a year now to see indicators which fundamentally point towards downwards price movement and almost without exception have failed.
554  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Holy Grail! I wish I could kiss the author of Bitmessage on his face. on: May 25, 2013, 09:22:46 AM
I'm really tired of people confusing IOUs with value.

With cryptocurrency, you can move the Value online, but with fiat currencies, all OT and ripple can move is an IOU for that currency/commodity, and then you've created a central point of failure as people collect their IOUs.

A cryptocurrency P2P exchange we can make right now; overcoming the value problem is the only problem we're stuck on.

To save time, I've summed up the process (with pics!) and streamlined the criteria for a real P2P distributed exchange here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212841.0

What, exactly in your opinion is the issue with the existing implementation recommendation?
555  Economy / Speculation / Re: Yet another analyst :) on: May 25, 2013, 08:30:17 AM


I have to chime in and say on the contrary, lucif is helping me stay rational for one...


In bitcoinland, exuberance is rational.
556  Economy / Speculation / Re: Goomboo's Journal on: May 25, 2013, 07:43:34 AM

I don't agree with you.  I believe that people overstate their ability to see the "effects" of developments in markets.  Having Bloomberg and CNBC on the trade floor makes you pretty skeptical of "cause and effect" in the markets.  "Markets are down 2% today on fears of Europe".  Really?  The reporters know the collective reason why hundreds of thousands of individuals bought and sold?  Even better is when the market ends the day positive following a loss: "Markets are up 1% today on European optimism".  Nonsense.  I've even seen the Bloomberg terminal spit two news articles in the same day telling me why the markets moved up and down, each just a rephrasing of the same news.  It's human tendency to assign a cause to something and when it comes to trying to say why trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of people collectively behaved a particular way is just silly.  It's human arrogance at its finest: "I know why it happened, I am smart and in control."

I was referring to the events which actually have the potential to move the market. Specifically the cases of bitcoin Reddit or wordpress accepting bitcoin will have a large affect on the user base and transactions over time, not only because of their effect individually, but in this case because it set a precedent for others to follow. I am talking long term fundamentals, not some BS that a TV station tries to cook up to maintain ratings.
557  Economy / Speculation / Re: Fundamental analysis thread on: May 25, 2013, 07:37:33 AM
The OP has a strongly bullish bias. Is this intentional?

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread I'm open to including all change which have the potential to fundamentally affect the price (I included the fork). If you have something you'd like to include, just post it here.
558  Economy / Speculation / Re: Trouble for BTC in China? on: May 24, 2013, 07:49:43 PM
Hi Ben,

We got further information from our carrier confirming that business such as bitcoin is not a proper financial tool in China and the Authority may treat bitcoin as an illegal business. Unfortunately the China Telecom Authority has requested that all bit-coin traffic to China be blocked.
 

It's the same caution we saw here from the EFF (and others) just because the government. Issuing a positive media piece from the state controlled media mouthpiece is not the same as issuing a statement of its legality.
559  Economy / Speculation / Re: Goomboo's Journal on: May 24, 2013, 07:45:36 PM
These indicators do in fact often move the price in a stable way. The reason we have gone from 13 to 120 is not because of trading, but because of fundamental differences in the infrastructure and user/ business adoption of bitcoin.

Which indicators?  How often do they move the price?  What is stability?  How do you know that infrastructure drove the price up 1000%?  If you don't have a ready answer with hard numbers to these questions then you are relying on unsubstantiated speculation.

As discussed in this thread, professional-grade technical analysis creates, tests, and trades a set of technical rules.  Professional-grade fundamental analysis is no different.  If you want to talk about serious fundamental analysis, you have to quantify and test it as well.  At its core, fundamental analysis is about the study of supply and demand and the majority of market participants fail to do just that...study supply and demand.

Here's some examples of a good place to start with legitimate fundamental analysis:

- "Demand for the commodity is 10% above the 1-year average and supply is 5% below the 1-year average - historically, this leads to price increasing by an average of 20% over the next week 70% of the time"

- "Imports are down 15% year over year while harvests are up 15% over the same time period - historically, this leads to price decreasing by an average of 15% over the next month 65% of the time"

- "Money managers added to their long positions by 10% while supply has dropped by 20% - historically, this leads to price increasing by an average of 15% over the next year 85% of the time"

Can't you see how there is a distinct difference between the nonsense spread on this forum and the above examples?  This is fact telling rather than story telling.  In each of the above, supply, demand, and the price response have been fully quantified and measured.  Not only has the method been backtested, but it also makes intuitive sense.  If you want to make money from trading fundamental analysis, you have to tell facts, not stories.  

Your post should have read "these indicators do in story move price..."


The reason we have gone from 13 to 120 is not because of trading

Are you sure?  Can you prove this?  How sure are you that it isn't me and some of my trading partners systematically extracting profits from the market?  You cannot prove it and it is very bold to say "the reason" for anything.  Above all, traders must remain skeptical and objective - not engaged in story telling.

This is precisely why I caution everyone against asking "why".  It's a deadly question and breeds a false understanding.  Unless you are a major player in the market, you truly have no idea why something happened.  I'm not paid to know why something happened, I'm paid to make money.

The most important indicators are largely indicated here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143973.0 but there are many many more which I would consider too noisy to be relavent.

The amount that they move the price is not necessarily quantifiable, its rather qualitative in nature. Compounded one can see the effect these events have on the price overall. There is nothing exact about this, of course it is a bit of a guess work, but so is "trading". The difference is that trading is looking for psychological/bot market patterns and exploiting those whereas investors are looking for emerging opportunities and exploiting those. There is probability calculation in both forms and corresponding benefits as well (as you pointed out, investing to date has actually been more profitable than your system when utilized perfectly). Many venture capitalists do not use hard data, they use their gut, which is based on knowledge and experience. There is often data behind their feeling, but they do not analyze it in detail before acting - they act as soon as they know the moment is right (or more often than not for the less successful of them after the moment has passed because they either did not trust themselves to act without data or did not see the opportunity).
560  Economy / Speculation / Re: Goomboo's Journal on: May 23, 2013, 09:59:17 AM
The absolute lack of any tangible fundamental information that influences the price of BTC means that you should seriously consider not asking or trying to answer why, what, or how prices move.

I'm surprised no one has challenged me on this comment yet.

This means that all of the "China is coming online...BUY", "Gold is down...BTC UP!", "The fair value of BTC is X" threads are absolutely worthless.  It's pure unsubstantiated speculation which deludes and confuses the participants.  If you are relying on Chinese buying, flight from gold, or a magic "fair value" to emerge, you are simply investing.  You have no science, no method, and no plan.  You're holding onto hope and hope is one of worst enemies of the objective trader.

FTFY

Goomboo, I largely agree with everything you say in this thread regarding trading, but please dont discount the value of fundamental analysis when it comes to investing (as you put it). These indicators do in fact often move the price in a stable way. The reason we have gone from 13 to 120 is not because of trading, but because of fundamental differences in the infrastructure and user/ business adoption of bitcoin.
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