4) That Bitcoin you withdrawed to Bitstamp, was previously owned by you?
Most of the questions you can answer yourself, and the others are pointless, but 4) to bitstamp transactions > 0.01 were not mine.
Try to be consistent. If you now states that those 0.01 bitcoin was "your fucking bitcoins" you can please give us the ripple address from wich they came and prove that it is yours? But please, most important are the last questions. |
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@oakpacific:
i'm in complete agreement with you. The scam doesn't consist in his denial to repay the IOUs, althought, as you said, he was ambiguos on purpose.
The scam is done by tricking people who don't understand how ripple works to give him trust; this is exploitable from others (and maybe himself) to change reliable ious (as bitstamp's ones) with his worthless ious. Say, to steal bitcoins to the gullible.
We should emphasize that the gullible ones are not the only victims. Also people who know TF, or see his status as a member of this forum, can't imagine that he would have put them in the condition of lose real bitcoins, instead of receiving a gift. Betrayed trust, scam... as you want.
Watch the denunciation posts and how many people are thanking me and other guys for the explanation.
I've not lost faith: TF, would you answer the last 4 questions?
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corret, and a BTCTalk mod helps Ripple. this is getting really sad...
helping people to avoid a loss of bitcoins. If you want to demonstrate that Ripple is flawed, just explain, people aren't stupid. |
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I'm glad to read from you in person that at least you stole 0.01 BTC. Just confirm if i'm right: 1) Did you warn people who trusted you that you weren't able to repay that "I owe you" with real bitcoins?
NO
2) You encouraged people to withdraw those IOUs in a gateway?
YES
3) Did you know that such a withdraw could have (and probably did) resulted in financial loss (even huge one) to another user who naively trusted you?
YES
[if not, you hadn't understand ripple and you weren't able to criticize it]
4) That Bitcoin you withdrawed to Bitstamp, was previously owned by you?
NO, as you said
Sounds like an admission. Just to clarify: point (3) states that you've allowed the guys who understand the mechanism to steal money to the gullible. I'd like to hear from you the answer of the last 2 questions: 5) Why did you choose to post that thread in the newbye section?
6) Why the thread was self-moderated?
MAy i add: 7) Do you are conscious that it could have ended with people losing much much more bitcoins? 8 ) Given that only 1.01 bitcoins were stolen, you consider what you call an "experiment", and i define a scam, succesfully? |
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Some simple questions for TradeFortress which i wish he will answer.
Let's stay on basic topics.
You offered 1 BTC Iou on Ripple through that thread.
1) Did you warn people who trusted you that you weren't able to repay that "I owe you" with real bitcoins?
2) You encouraged people to withdraw those IOUs in a gateway?
3) Did you know that such a withdraw could have (and probably did) resulted in financial loss (even huge one) to another user who naively trusted you?
4) That Bitcoin you withdrawed to Bitstamp, was previously owned by you?
5) Why did you choose to post that thread in the newbye section?
6) Why the thread was self-moderated?
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But seriously - anyone dumb enough to do that DESERVES to suffer loss as an example to the rest of the community.
That's the point. Tricking the dumbs and make them losing money. |
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Ripple as a system isn't meant to send actual BTC, it's meant to send IOUs for actual BTC. Douchebag TradeFortress knows this but doesn't plan to honor his IOU's but rather plans to exchange them for IOU's issued by others that will be honored as he clearly stated in his PM to me... One word: (actually two) - liquidity providers. I've being able to exchange my own IOUs for bit stamp ones because of a flawed feature in ripple. The only currency in Ripple that is similar to BTC is XRP. So pretending or implying to Newbies (where he posted) that sending BTC in Ripple is in any way similar to sending BTC through Bitcoin is not only disingenuous but it's sleazy. TradeFortress is running a scam and it's sad that no moderator has the balls to do anything about it. EDIT: Or maybe the necessary brain power is not available amongst the moderators to understand that Ripple is not the same as Bitcoin and should not be used by a board member to steal ignorant newbie's BTC (which is why TradeFortress - aka - douchebag scammer - is posting on the Newbie board). If this is true, he is properly a stealer. |
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I don't understand what's going on here.
So far people are claiming this sequence of events:
1. TradeFortress posts thread in newbie section asking people to do something on ripple and that he will give them one ripple BTC.
2. TradeFortress does not mention that people who follow his instructions could lose BTC.
2. People follow TradeFortresses instructions
3. At least one person ends up losing *actual* BTC because of TradeFortress.
4. This is completely acceptable.
Is this correct?
Yes, this is the best explanation of this thing. Actually he didn't promise to pay real bitcoins for the fake ones he gave inside Ripples, but he encouraged people to withdraw them to a gateway, knowingly that this implies someone else losing his reedemable BTCs. A sort of incitement to scam, made possible by his network. No, he just gave people Ripple TradeFortress bitcoins - they have a market value independent of bitcoins based on demand. People can trade these coins and establish a value based on market forces.
Since the word 'bitcoin' is made up it can mean anything - the word 'bitcoin' has no legal status.
If I say I'll give you $20 which $ am I referring to? Australian? Canadian? or my own made up $ currency?
No it doesn't work in this way, 3 letter codes are different for real currencies, like USD for United States Dollar and AUD for Australian ones, if i remember well? BTC means bitcoin inside Ripples, no matter from what gateway. Btw, i appreciate very much this |
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So you were one of the one's who blindly posted there address, then found out with was an experiment WHICH WAS CLEARLY OUTLINED IN HIS POST.
So now your butt is hurting so much you needed to make a post flinging blind(read as ignorant) accusations?
Pls leave.
Srs.
Thank you for the opportunity you gave me to explain to everybody that, of course, i wasn't in that list. I just wanted to help newbyes whose had fallen in that scammy thread. Because they have lost theyr BTC. |
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Hostfat capisco la tua posizione, però:
- già un utente ha perso un BTC grazie a questo scherzetto (ma è da ieri che non controllo).
dove hai trovato questa informazione? Tragli ultimi post, un utente con un custom client ha analizzato la rete e ha trovato le transazioni verso bitstamp, che hanno "succhiato" IOUs di Bitstamp da gente che si era fidata di TF. Una volta individuate, le transazioni sono ovviamente pubbliche e controllabili da chiunque. |
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Pretty unethical what TF has done.
There was obviously ulterior motives at hand when that thread was made (The one you got scammed by).
Doubt you're going to achieve anything through this thread however. This isn't the first time he's dodged bullets as far as scam accusations go. Just google it lol
I wasn't scammed, i've just wanted to warn others. I've saw the thread in the morning, posted there to warn people but the post was deleted, and yesterday evening when i came back to home i saw the thread full of potentially scammed people. |
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Hostfat capisco la tua posizione, però:
- già un utente ha perso un BTC grazie a questo scherzetto (ma è da ieri che non controllo).
- potenzialmente c'è gente che rischia di perderne fino a cento.
- la storia sta andando avanti.
Lo scam-tag è una questione più complessa, ma il topic andava bloccato immediatamente.
Ripple può piacere o non piacere, ma non si può permettere che grazie alla fiducia ottenuta su questo forum si mettano degli utenti in condizione di truffarne, scientemente, degli altri. A prescindere dal sistema con cui la truffa è perpetuata.
EDIt: comunque hai ragione, nell'ultimo post ho alzato troppo i toni, ma questa storia mi ha fatto imbestialire. Scusassero ; )
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Devo dire che in tutta questa storia una cosa l'ho imparata: gli amministratori di questo forum sono degli stupidi.
Posso capire che si sentano minacciati da Ripple o che, in ultima analisi, semplicemente non approvino il nuovo sistema... ma lasciare che della gente ci perda dei bitcoins e che tutto il baraccone di TradeFortress vada avanti indisturbato è una cosa... assurda.
Un altro esempio di come il fervore ideologico riduca gli esseri umani a delle larve incapaci di ragionare.
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So it's not a bug in Ripple that one's account balance can show 1 trillion BTC?
No, it is the way it runs but, should you trust a user who has 1 trillion BTC in his balance? The first thing i've learned when nearing Ripple is that trust is a delicate matter. Opencoin itself recommandes to not extend trust if you don't precisely understand what it is. Because I Think, Nobody people for that excellent reputation like that
to scamm any member of this forum. That's is very stupid things.
Built reputation is hard ,...
Please ..... don't judge any people scammer with out valid proof.
I totally don't care of the reputation of the guy, who is clearly obsessed by Ripple. I don't even know (and i'm not interested) if his intentions are good. But he's putting ingenuous people in the conditions of loosing a lot of Bitcoin, real ones. |
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If people are so stupid to use RIpple and give trust to TF, they DESERVE to be scammed! And he's not a scammer!!!
I love this pure and disinterested logic!!!
Let's stole all BTC of ingenuous people! WOW.
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I'm stunned.
you guys are telling:
"I don't like Ripple, just let people to lost money to demonstrate it is flawed"
Cmon, let the game go on! Just use this forum and the bitcoin itself to organize a gigantic scam which could end in someone losing a big amount of bitcoin and some smart scammer exploit that stupid "experiment"!
Rly, rly.
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Guys, do you understand that for this joke an account lost 1 BTC reedemable on Bitstamp?
TradeFortress should edit the topic to be no more self-moderated, allowing people to report financial loss and take the obligation to repay whoever demonstrate to have lost bitcoins.
About Ripple, (i'm a bit frustrated because a bunch of senior member are sistematically going Off Topic here, because we're not talking about Ripple here), ok yes, so you're right.
If someone decides to ignore the fact that giving trust on Ripple can bring a money loss, which is written in capital letters everywhere, this guy can be scammed. So through Ripple you can trick a person.
I was naively thinking that you can scam a person with fiat too. And with Bitcoin you can easy do money laundering, and buy weapons and drugs. So we just don't use any kind of money, crypto or not.
EDIT: still people giving him trust
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However, what is it that this system allows me to be looking at a balance screen telling me I have 5 BTC when in fact they are basically imaginary? That's honesty?
That's exactly the same system you use everytime you log into MtGox to trade your bitcoins  |
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As i said in the other topic, your accusations about Ripples aren't rootless at all, i've read your site and some posts.
People can read and think and you can't force them into doing that by rescuing theyr bitcoins, or stealing; or letting others to steal. You have crossed the line.
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Guys, a scam is a scam because there is people who believe in it. That's why you posted in the newbye section and the topic was self-moderated.
I agree with you that opencoin should make much more hard to give trust to people, but that's not the point.
If you dislike guns, will you shoot at people to demonstrate that it hurts? You would go to jail.
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