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5401  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Economic Costs of Gambling on: June 09, 2021, 10:06:56 PM
I just saw I forgot to add that it does of course depend on the country and the tax laws. In some countries there is no tax whatsoever on gambling while in others there might be a pretty high tax. What is even more important is from what angle are you looking at the problem? Nationally? Globally? Here is why it is important:

First of all I would say that intuitively an activity where your loss is my gain and your gain is my pain doesn't sound like it could ever be a net positive in terms of social cost.
But people are aware about the risks without being forced to play. And they wouldn't risk losing money if there wouldn't be chances of growing this money at same time. Actually we are hostage of the *your loss is my gain and your gain is my pain* effect in our daily life. Isn't that what governments do charging heavy taxes over basic needs of the people? With the difference in gambling you can choose participating the activity or not.

But apart from that, if we look at a country with a gambling industry (take Nevada, Vegas), of course the statistics will show that Vegas is in an awesome position in terms of social cost. That is the national perspective. But what about the countries that the players came from and spend their money in Vegas? If they win money in Vegas they bring it home, spend it at home and reduce social cost. But no matter how you look at it, it is obvious that that had to come from somewhere in the first place.
So moneys balance can't be the basic measure for social costs here, I think we agree on that.
Foreigner gamblers going to USA to gamble considerable amounts of money are rich businessmen, investors, speculators on their countries. They won't cause externalities to their local governments. There are some common tourists too, but the amounts they bet are insignificant. Of course they could be gambling on their native places, but the local governments should legalize it first, right? The irony here is that they don't want to legalize gambling because it would be harmful to their citizens, but at same they complain people are going abroad to gamble.

One of the questions that remains is does the winner spread so much positive energy that his surrounding society becomes more productive, and does that net out or even exceed the serious cost (maybe he lost it all) incurred by the loser? While the marginal effect of joy is strongly decreasing (that is scientifically proven), the loser could literally lose the ground under his feet, become an alcoholic, lose the job and destroy the family, cause the kids to get off track, maybe is forced to attend psychotherapists and what not.

I don't know, just some thoughts on the issue. I wouldn't look at isolated geographical areas. It is like: hey I got some statistics from Monaco, let's see if gambling their supports or undermines the socioeconomic system...
I think the effects of gambling are positive, yes. Millionaires hate to pay taxes and avoid countries where the rates are high, taking away with them all their wealth, so gambling is the way for a country to get money from them through free will. On long run they lose, but also have fun and won't miss the lost money as they have much more to spend (what also include the maharajas of the judiciary and other public employees).
Furthermore we can't stop doing things we like just because some people don't know limits. This way everyone is being punished for few people's mistakes.
5402  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: To diversify or not to diversify... on: June 09, 2021, 07:54:46 PM
It doesn't make too much difference diversifying in crypto universe, because bitcoin drives everything here. Altcoins follow bitcoin's fluctuations upside and down. Some people like to hold altcoins, because they might show higher increasement percentage when compared to bitcoin during a short period of time, but it's more risky to hold them anyway. Bitcoin is the safest crypto currency to invest and I wouldn't put more than 20% of my portfolio in altcoins. To diversify funds efficiently you need to check another kinds of investment like real estate and stocks markets.
5403  Economy / Economics / Re: Twitter ban, koo opens up. How will this play in Nigeriann business environment on: June 09, 2021, 05:57:15 PM
There are no good guys on this story. The government of Nigeria is tyrant the same way the big techs are. Each of them have their own political agenda and in the middle there are the sheep (the people) who pick one side or another, but are never benefited in the end. People are doomed anyway, because they think and act like sheep, always picking the less worse side, instead of aiming the excellency.
Twitter and freedom of speech don't fit on the same sentence. For them it's interesting to stand against Nigeria's government right now, but they say nothing about many other criminals profiles posting on their platform, like mentioned above by another forum members. Not only terrorists are allowed on twitter, but regional mafias, gangsters from different countries as well. The point is that these are protected by their agenda as victims of the society.
5404  Economy / Economics / Re: Crypto is our last hope for financial independence - John McAfee on: June 08, 2021, 11:15:24 PM
I think it's a big mistake to invalidate a declaration based on the personal character of the speaker. A fact is still a fact even though if it was told by the worse individual of the world. I really don't care for John McAfee and I have nothing to say in his favour or against him, but what he said is actually the truth. Crypto is the last hope for many people. Not everyone in this universe are speculators, traders or gamblers who have crypto as a hobby or extra income source. Crypto currency is already the only and last source of income for many third world citizens who don't have opportunities on their local communities for different reasons.

Without crypto many would be starving, living in very bad conditions or not having their financial independence. Because financial independence means to act accordingly to your principles and still be able to thrive, what is nearly to impossible in regional communities, since to have a job you have to turn a blind eye to many wrong things and adapt yourself to the local hierarchy, being conniving to the system.
5405  Economy / Economics / Re: Biden Goes After Crypto Tax Evaders with Global Data Sharing Initiative on: June 08, 2021, 07:17:37 PM
Actually I thought it already worked this way. It's a fact governments are desperate for more income and crypto universe looks a pretty fertile spot to milk more money to the public vaults, so governments can keep the social welfare programs going on and increase their values when the elections are near again. Moreover, more money is needed to decrease the money printer's speed a little bit and make the fiat ponzi scheme last longer.
I'm sure not only USA, but many other countries will fully agree with his proposal, as all of them can be benefited. If it can lead to an one world global government I'm not sure, because China, Russia, USA and EU aren't going to bow themselves to each other. They value their own sovereignty and power applied over the weaker nations.
5406  Economy / Speculation / Re: All Crypto in Free-Fall again, BTC retesting 30K then all the way to 10k and bel on: June 08, 2021, 06:09:22 PM
It has nothing to with Trump, Elon, China or any other argument presented by the media after btc crashes. It's just speculators playing with crypto currency while another investors are too afraid to invest nice amounts like they did months ago. Bitcoin is probably going to enter the 20,000$'s range again soon and once this happens, the market can see a chance of a new recovery.
With some luck we won't even enter the 10,000$'s range, what would be good enough in my opinion. Crypto has total respect nowadays, otherwise we wouldn't see so many news sites and specialists talking about it all the time, especially at mainstream media.
5407  Economy / Economics / Re: El Salvador plan to make BTC legal tender on: June 08, 2021, 04:49:55 AM
For small poor countries it's a smart move to adopt bitcoin as currency, because they have nothing to lose. For this reason the volatility is an acceptable risk to be taken. On the other hand, if more countries like El Salvador adopt bitcoin as well, the volatility tends to decrease along the time, as millions of people will be consistently entering this ecosystem to deal with bitcoin in a daily basis.
I hope these news coming from El Salvador aren't just propaganda and that the legislative house accepts the president's proposal to make bitcoin official there. The world will be watching this crypto experience closely.

El Salvador has been using the US dollar long before Venezuela and if this happens Bitcoin will also be a legal tender together with the US dollar. With that being said I don't think that their citizens will be inclined in choosing a volatile currency like Bitcoin as their main mode of payment as compared to just using USD for their daily transactions. The recognition of Bitcoin will just give them an option but they will most likely see it as an investment rather than a currency. This will also depend if how the businesses will react to this kind of change whether or not they are prepared to adopt Bitcoin as a mode of payment.
Well, by using dollar as official currency they are already much better than most america's countries. Since they have the dollar stability probably bitcoin will be mainly used as investment, like you said. As I see, the idea of adopting bitcoin by El Salvador's president is due to the fact the country has considerable percentage of its income coming from foreigner countries (probably people native from El Salvador who live in USA and other countries sending money monthly to their relatives) being heavily taxed by banks. They saw in bitcoin a potential solution for this issue, so people can send money from any place of the world paying less fees, avoiding the eager banks' taxes.
5408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: After El Salvador, Paraguay Congressman announces Bitcoin and Paypal project on: June 08, 2021, 02:37:11 AM
Politicians aren't too different from popular businessmen entrepreneurs who are constantly talking about bitcoin on their social medias. Besides being a currency and a strong investment on long run, bitcoin has also became a tool for people capitalize more engagement on the internet. Some politicians started using bitcoin to promote themselves on the social medias, like businessmen have already been doing so far.
Due to the spot congressmen occupy I think they should talk about bitcoin seriously instead of only attempting to farm likes and shares. What important project is he talking about? How will it work on practice? What does a bitcoin adoption project has to do with a picture of the congressman displaying laser eyes? We need more seriouness... Let the jokes and the catchphrases for the clown Elon Musk.
It comes with time though, as we are in the social age, every politicians have this sort of media presence and updating what is happening in their country. Perhaps the congressman has taken advantage of the popularity of bitcoin, or maybe he is really serious of filing a bill later.

We can't really answer what projects are in the horizon, so your questions cannot be answered by this time. So let us give them some time, El Salvador, Paraguay and maybe neighboring countries will follow as well. And I will assume that he is all serious because he represent his country, and his tweet coincidence with the recent bitcoin conference wherein he is an attendee if I got it right.
I really hope good projects are being developed to increase bitcoin adoption among citizens who aren't familiar with crypto currency yet. Latin america as a whole will be highly benefited by this, since most countries there have weak currencies which don't stand against inflation for too long. Furthermore unemployment and lack of official jobs rates are huge.
If bitcoin can help these people finding online opportunities it will be already a wonderful help for their local economies development. However, it can happen only through a serious and dedicated approach from the government to its citizens.
5409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: After El Salvador, Paraguay Congressman announces Bitcoin and Paypal project on: June 08, 2021, 01:00:13 AM
Politicians aren't too different from popular businessmen entrepreneurs who are constantly talking about bitcoin on their social medias. Besides being a currency and a strong investment on long run, bitcoin has also became a tool for people capitalize more engagement on the internet. Some politicians started using bitcoin to promote themselves on the social medias, like businessmen have already been doing so far.
Due to the spot congressmen occupy I think they should talk about bitcoin seriously instead of only attempting to farm likes and shares. What important project is he talking about? How will it work on practice? What does a bitcoin adoption project has to do with a picture of the congressman displaying laser eyes? We need more seriouness... Let the jokes and the catchphrases for the clown Elon Musk.
5410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Did You Know? - 32 Companies Now Hold Bitcoin on: June 07, 2021, 09:53:47 PM
As we can see it's good news for bitcoin. And it is not actually because these companies are holding btcs, but because the amount they hold are insignificant compared the the total bitcoin supply. It makes manipulation harder and the distribution truly decentralized among different individuals. There are no kings or maharajas in bitcoin environment and I believe that is why it has been working so well.
5411  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I sometimes wonder whether Bitcoin has established a religion. on: June 07, 2021, 04:50:13 PM
Bitcoin enthusiasts blame those who want to replace bitcoin because these people are willing to manipulate the market in order to benefit themselves without thinking about the consequences that may be very harmful to crypto universe as a whole. What you categorized as atheists are the guys who would sacrifice the entire crypto market to make their personal fortune grow faster, what includes defamating bitcoin and overpricing their own projects importance. I'm not saying they can't try, but to every action there is always a reaction. Of course bitcoin holders will defend the original crypto currency among all.

I think it can't be compared to a religion, because religion subject involves the spiritual world and elements which are unknown to us and to the science. In crypto's debate, arguments are purely based in physical world laws and elements. We don't rely in faith to defend bitcoin or to defend it should be replaced by an altcoin.
5412  Economy / Economics / Re: El Salvador plan to make BTC legal tender on: June 07, 2021, 03:32:22 PM
For small poor countries it's a smart move to adopt bitcoin as currency, because they have nothing to lose. For this reason the volatility is an acceptable risk to be taken. On the other hand, if more countries like El Salvador adopt bitcoin as well, the volatility tends to decrease along the time, as millions of people will be consistently entering this ecosystem to deal with bitcoin in a daily basis.
I hope these news coming from El Salvador aren't just propaganda and that the legislative house accepts the president's proposal to make bitcoin official there. The world will be watching this crypto experience closely.
5413  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Economic Costs of Gambling on: June 06, 2021, 10:30:52 PM
1. Gambling in fact has many negative externalities. If someone gets addicted, the likelihood is much higher to be depressed. Depression is factor, which leads to high costs for the society.

2. Gambling addiction leads to economic costs because of crime actions. Other market actors have to increase their security standards, which means higher costs.

3. Many gambling addicts go as a consequence to jail. Jail means EXTREMELY high costs to society.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

While I do mostly agree with the points you raised, the claims that you made are all fallacious, being a slippery slope.

Any addiction caused to a person has always its negative externalities, not just gambling. While gambling may be considered one of those addictions that are common, you must also consider those other addictions as they contribute to the costs in society.

In addition, while those negative externalities in gambling are present, you cannot escape the fact that gambling brings revenue to the government. The revenue garnered from these gambling establishments enable to government to construct infrastructures which bring positive externalities as a result.

It is thus, imperative to know where to draw the line on how to balance these negative and positive externalities. While the result of gambling addiction is detrimental to the society, we also cannot disregard the financial aspect on how it brings revenue to the government.

Short answer: OP is right and there is absolutely no way the tax raised from gambling could cover the costs society incurs due to gambling/addicts.
Long answer: it requires extensive and fundamental research to actually come up with concrete numbers.

Especially online gambling socially isolates the players. One could argue that the five friends playing poker in the garden having a barbecue is even a net positive to society because of the recreational effect. How recreational the effect still is to someone sitting alone in front of his screen, I don't know.

Anyway, the topic is certainly interesting and a very good idea to look at it from the angle OP brought up!
Since it takes extensive research to come up concrete numbers I think we can't say gambling taxes collected by the government aren't enough to cover costs with problem gamblers. This industry profits a lot of money. Most people will never see such amounts of money during their life, so it's even harder to have some notion about this huge income application.
It's also hard to have notion regards the number of gamblers who will create such issues for the society. There are many people involved on this market and only a minority of them will present negative behaviors. Moreover, many addicted gamblers are rich people who can't control themselves. I think it's unlikely they will start robbing people or stores around to keep gambling.
5414  Economy / Speculation / Re: Anybody else feel relieved this dip finally happened? on: June 06, 2021, 06:27:12 AM
It's not possible to know yet if it's already the dip. Bitcoin is pretty stable around 35,000$ these days, but there isn't any indicator it's going to pump or dump next. For those focused on long run investments who don't want to miss the chance it's already a good moment to buy bitcoins, the price is really good and they can guarantee their holdings by entering the market now, although awareness is needed regards the correction reaching to deeper levels on soon. I'm not too relieved about this situation because it's always sad to see bitcoin losing value. At same time it had to happen sooner or later. It's part of the process, so let's wait and hope for a steady recovery.
5415  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Sumo betting seems rigged - can you make profit with it? on: June 06, 2021, 01:52:43 AM
Unfortunately Sumo wrestling is not the only real sport to be rigged  Undecided Even highly professional and monitored sports can be rigged as we have learnt today. Yana Sizikova has been arrested yesterday at the French Open Roland Garros and accused to have voluntarily lost a game on purpose during the last French Open Roland Garros in October 2020.
I was not aware that a body is overlooking sports corruption and they caught her because there was a high level of betting activity taking place in her matches and they lost that match and this is the first time i am hearing about investigating teams monitoring all the sports activity but i doubt what evidence they will be able to provide in court.

We need to get rid of rigged sporting events as we are loosing huge amounts and that is a criminal offense to being with and these players who are proved to be helping to rig matches should be banned for life rather than giving them chances.
You must be a newbie in the gambling world if you have never heard about that. Of course there is a dedicated police in almost all countries which monitors betting markets and casino games to avoid fraud and rigged matchs or gambling games. But I don't think a player should be banned for life just because he voluntarily lost a game LOL When you bet there is always a part of uncertainty so you should take into account this risk.
Naturally the player who loses a game voluntarily will have to be banned from professional championships because he won't entertain the public anymore, since his gameplay is faked. People like to watch athletes who give everything they have to show during a game. That is what makes the match competitive, unpredictable and fascinating. That is the basic of any sports.
The rigged game is tepid and emotionless. Consequently besides the public, sponsors will also fade away from the sport if cheater players aren't removed. And without sponsors there are no games.
5416  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Prayer and gambling. on: June 05, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
The reason why one person is going to win instead of his adversary is commonly explained as luck, but behind the luck factor there may be God acting through his spiritual laws. We as human beings aren't able to understand how these laws work exactly and I believe it's really supposed to not be possible to understand them. It's part of the mistery of the life and the universe, which humanity lacks answers for (even the atheists).
As we can see it's not possible to say why God favours one or another person in determined situations through our limited vision. But I believe God isn't against any human being and no one is abandoned by him. If the person loses a bet today, but lives a decent life, far from addictions and traps of the evil, this individual will be rewarded by God somehow (not necessarily winning the jackpot, anyway).
5417  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Economic Costs of Gambling on: June 05, 2021, 07:24:22 PM
These are things that exist in our societies with or without gambling addiction. Externalities are part of our daily life and although it's an absurd we have to pay for most of them, there is nothing we can do about it. Only politicians have the power to change the rules which could make everything works fairly.

1. Gambling in fact has many negative externalities. If someone gets addicted, the likelihood is much higher to be depressed. Depression is factor, which leads to high costs for the society.
Depression is about health, so I think people have a more empathic approach on this matter. It's an acceptable externality.

2. Gambling addiction leads to economic costs because of crime actions. Other market actors have to increase their security standards, which means higher costs.
Raising security standards I think it's not an externality, because you are paying for a service which is going to benefit you directly. Externality would be you paying security standards for someone else who doesn't even live near you.

3. Many gambling addicts go as a consequence to jail. Jail means EXTREMELY high costs to society.
Jail shouldn't have a cost for the society. The prisioner should work inside it to be able to pay for his family and his own living costs.
5418  Economy / Economics / Re: Is Covid-19 carrying the growth in digital currencies? on: June 05, 2021, 06:15:31 PM
As a result of Covid -19, in payment preferences, Many companies and authorities around the world are increasingly looking at digital currencies as an alternative way to make transactions in digitalized world. So guys what do you think about ? How will be easy the day today life after adopting for digital currencies?
Authorities aren't going to adopt the existing digital currencies. Instead, they are going to create their own stablecoins. Probably you have seen China is going ahead in launching their own crypto currency, right?
When this day comes I think there could be a positive impact over crypto market's volume in general, especially bitcoin, but keep in mind that is not the main goal of these authorities. What they want is a traceable national currency which will be centralized and fully regulated to stop tax evasion, money laundering and to know where the money of each citizen is going to.
5419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Statue in Hungary on: June 05, 2021, 05:40:47 PM
At first glance I didn't like very much that hooded flat dummy design. But after reading the fully concept I thought very interesting the fact people in front of it will have their faces reflected on the statue's face.
Due to the location where the statue is going to be placed I believe it won't attract too much attention from people who aren't familiar with bitcoin, because that is a technological district, so people around must already know what is bitcoin, how it works and probably they already adopted it. It's a very creative tribute to Satoshi, indeed, but to promote bitcoin not useful at all.
5420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Global adoption — A ridiculous term on: June 05, 2021, 04:04:40 AM
For early adopters, to increase their wealth through bitcoin is just a consequence of all the benefits the digital currency brings to us. Like you said, bitcoin is great to transact worldwide between two individuals from very distant countries, it's a powerful tool to escape failed national currencies constant devaluation, it's a bridge between your money and investments which wouldn't be disponible through traditional currencies for the average joe.
And for me the greatest advantage of bitcoin is the accessibility it guarantees to its adopters. With bitcoin I can work online and be directly paid without bureaucratic third party platforms asking for documents and taking a lot of time to accept it or freezing funds for nothing. Bitcoin has its advantages and I really would like to see global adoption, so other people could also enjoy these opportunities. Moreover, coins need to be spread among more hands to make decentralization works more efficiently.
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