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5421  Economy / Speculation / Re: Lets find out just how powerful the manipulator really is. on: January 26, 2012, 03:58:21 AM
Excuse me but as the founder and owner of DialCoin, BeyondBanks, DCAO, smallplanet, BitDex and BitTalk Media I'd have to say your concept of "The Manipulator" is juvenile at best.

The real manipulators are the ones keeping the gates. You're looking in the wrong direction.

What if I don't think "The Manipulator" is even a he/she/it, or that the non-he/she/it really even manipulates in the classic sense of the term?

Seriously though, what do you think my concept of the manipulator is?

Whenever I see "The Manipulator", I feel it's describing some rich fat-cat playing around with Bitcoin. Am I far off base?
5422  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 03:57:13 AM
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.


El Compartimiento el Bitcoin

Quote
If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.

I know of this guy in NYC who has a TV show...


Fixed.
5423  Economy / Speculation / Re: Lets find out just how powerful the manipulator really is. on: January 26, 2012, 03:45:27 AM
Excuse me but as the founder and owner of DialCoin, BeyondBanks, DCAO, smallplanet, BitDex and BitTalk Media I'd have to say your concept of "The Manipulator" is juvenile at best.

The real manipulators are the ones keeping the gates. You're looking in the wrong direction.
5424  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 03:41:55 AM
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a professional and cheap way to get this done, please contact me.
5425  Other / Off-topic / Re: Totally Off-Topic! on: January 26, 2012, 03:16:33 AM
Maybe he means this kind of tale.

5426  Other / Beginners & Help / Calling all newbies! on: January 26, 2012, 02:03:18 AM
Here's your chance to do something for Bitcoin-- even as a newbie!

We've put together a magazine that will effectively represent Bitcoiners like yourselves and we need your support in different areas.

Here's what we're always keeping a look-out for:


  • Article writers (professionals only)
  • Photographers and imaging professionals with experience in tracking down creative commons free use images (Not stealing iStockphotos)
  • Local distribution agents (Need to guarantee acceptance at local stores)



PM me with your l33t skillz and we'll see how we can help you be useful!


Matthew N. Wright
Editor in Chief
BitcoinMagazine.net
5427  Other / Meta / Re: Could the forum benefit from a bot? on: January 26, 2012, 01:41:54 AM
The only use-case I've found for a bot so far is automatically fixing quotes. You don't know how often this happens:

This...
hi!
[/quote]
Sup!
[/quote]
then gets quoted as this:

hi!
[/quote]
Sup!
[/quote]
[/quote]

It then spreads virally to all future quotes.
[/quote]

+1
[/quote]


+1
5428  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 01:17:23 AM
p.s. the mere mention of DRM turns me off the entire project.
+100

If your company chooses to go that route, it proves you are more afraid of loss than confident in your abilities.  If I can read this for free on my linux desktop, as well as my barnes & noble nook without special software, I may do so.  And I may choose to compensate whoever provides it to me, whether it is you or a pirate.  Get over yourself, and quit hiding behind feeble locks a competent locksmith can open with a bobby pin.  If your shit is good, you will be rewarded beyond your imagination.  If not, best to fail spectacularly and move on.

Edit:
Digital costs you nothing to distribute other than a choice.  And it will drive physical sales by building your audience.

FYI This is the correct way to talk to me, although SgtSpike's explanation made me want to believe a bit more in the "community backing it". I'm not 100% clear on that at the moment but it will become more clear when we're breaking even.
5429  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 01:14:14 AM
The fact is, I don't understand enough what "DRM" actually is. If you consider releasing the magazine as a downloadable app "DRM" just because Apple and Android could potentially control it, then I don't really know what to say, and I'll gladly stop commenting on it and let our Marketing manager Mihai Alisie give his thoughts.
By DRM, I just mean a protected format.  Anything that you have to be logged in to view, or jump through similar hoops to get to.

Quote
If however we are talking about an issue where someone wants to download the PDF and only the PDF, and no other form will suffice, I think I'd have to give them a warm "No thank you" to their business at this particular moment. We're barely 2 weeks old as a business and I'd hate to crush us before we even start.
My fear is that many people here will just say "no thank you" right back.  I believe you would actually lose volume if you stuck with a protected format.  That is why I am advocating an unprotected PDF format.  Yes, people will pirate it, but many of those people would pirate it anyway (they will find a way around it very quickly).  But people here are generally good about supporting businesses that aim to further Bitcoin's cause, and a dedicated magazine would go straight to the top of that list as long as it's not in a protected format, since that is another big point of contention among this crowd.

Also, an unprotected format is something that would get sent around to family and friends via email.  While you might think this is a bad thing at first, the exposure to your magazine would be incredible.  For those who then become interested in the magazine at that point, you'll garner more subscriptions.  For everyone else, no revenue was lost (those friends and family members wouldn't have randomly subscribed to your magazine).  So in that sense, you have a gain to volume due to an open format, not a loss.


EDIT: Got a word down from marketing. It seems that if we are basing our income model off of advertisers such as the big boys do, releasing the digital copy for absolutely free won't be an issue, but I have been reminded that at least for the first month our entire business plan seems to be more related to individual sales.

I hope we can bring the volume up to the point that we can safely switch models. I am grateful for getting this far and I know we will only get bigger so I suppose it's only a matter of time.
I don't think it's unreasonable to release the first volume protected, then subsequent volumes unprotected.  Those who want unprotected volumes can wait a month, and knowing that an unprotected release is coming should be adequate for most of them.  In fact, that might not be a bad model to go by for future releases.  Give the magazine to the subscribers in a protected format for the first month, then give it to those same subscribers in an unprotected format afterward.  I wouldn't say give it away free to non-subscribers, as you'll miss out on sales from people who don't want to torrent things, but don't mind paying for them.  But you should be able to make all sides happy with that sort of arrangement.


I guess I can see your side of things, that it will either be a game of cat and mouse or an all-out massive surrender. Either way is fine by me-- I'm just the founder and editor. All I care about is:

If a magazine gives up DRM or simply doesn't offer the digital copy for free-- how does it provide income to cover the costs of printing the physical copies?


Everyone here understands that we're losing money the first month, right? Does everyone here know how much it actually costs to print even 200 issues of a magazine by our specifications and at 64 pages? I literally would need to be charging $40 per issue at this point to break even. Releasing a free issue is not really on the top of my mind right now. Volume is. If that volume is in the form of more free issues, that's the wrong kind of volume. lol
Yikes... $80,000 sunk in to the magazine?  That IS a lot.

Anyway, like I said above, it's all about pandering to the crowd you are targeting.  This particular crowd loves free-format files, so to avoid alienating them, you need to provide them with such.  That doesn't mean that none of them will buy it.  In fact, I believe it will be quite the opposite - you will have a lot more support, and more volume, if you offer it in an unprotected format.

Think of it like archive.org.  Likely, very few people here donated to them before they started accepting Bitcoins as donations.  When they did start accepting Bitcoin donations, they had a ton of support from folks here, to the tune of several thousand dollars worth of BTC.  Your magazine could be the same way - you won't have much support on the digital front from this crowd, unless you release an unprotected format, which people would support just because it's an unprotected format and that is rare these days.

Ok, I'm done with my soap box speeches.  I think I've said more than enough for you to understand why I think this is important.  Wink


This made a lot of sense to me. I'm sure everyone else has been saying something similar, I'm just hearing it better the way you put it. Let me sit on this for a while and think.
5430  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 01:12:37 AM
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting you give away the digital copy for free.

Oh! I'm sorry then. That's my own ignorance probably. So you mean charge people, but give it out as a PDF or something?
5431  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 01:02:16 AM
p.s. the mere mention of DRM turns me off the entire project.

If I were half the troll people thought I was I'd just never release a digital copy LOL.
5432  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:51:25 AM
Place ads on the plastic. That should help offset the cost. Consider doing it in such a way that the plastic is apt to be saved, thereby making the plastic as valuable as the mag. You can even print on both sides of the plastic, as you already well know. Ad advertiser could pay to have a QR-Code on the reverse, only readable once opened, linked to a special offer.

Not currently feasible. I'll keep it in mind for the future though. I'd like to remind people who keep throwing around "just charge advertising to offset the cost"-- you need people willing to advertise first!
5433  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:31:35 AM
I like how I sparked this whole conversation about free or not free, DRM, piracy, etc.  Dude, you put a photo of an Anonymous member on the cover and you are now trying to justify charging for it and locking it down.

I'm having trouble understanding if this is meant to be a joke or not. I don't think anyone judges a magazine's business model off of the cover for a story.

EDIT: Got a word down from marketing. It seems that if we are basing our income model off of advertisers such as the big boys do, releasing the digital copy for absolutely free won't be an issue, but I have been reminded that at least for the first month our entire business plan seems to be more related to individual sales.

I hope we can bring the volume up to the point that we can safely switch models. I am grateful for getting this far and I know we will only get bigger so I suppose it's only a matter of time.
5434  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:27:00 AM
you're only thinking about what benefits you without thinking about the horrible consequences to the magazine's future.

I already purchased a 12 month subscription...

I don't really care either way. I know enough so that I can strip any DRM off of a digital copy, and will do so in order to use it on the device of my choosing (thinking my new Nook Simple Touch).

I guess I can see your side of things, that it will either be a game of cat and mouse or an all-out massive surrender. Either way is fine by me-- I'm just the founder and editor. All I care about is:

If a magazine gives up DRM or simply doesn't offer the digital copy for free-- how does it provide income to cover the costs of printing the physical copies?


Everyone here understands that we're losing money the first month, right? Does everyone here know how much it actually costs to print even 200 issues of a magazine by our specifications and at 64 pages? I literally would need to be charging $40 per issue at this point to break even. Releasing a free issue is not really on the top of my mind right now. Volume is. If that volume is in the form of more free issues, that's the wrong kind of volume. lol
5435  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:21:56 AM
Why don't you just distribute it for free, or just to cover the cost of online hosting (<$0.10) and support yourselves from advertisements.
Because writers and editors (and other staff) still have to be paid, and physical publishing of the magazine has to be covered as well.

I hate to say it Matthew, because I am one of the most anti-piracy people you'll ever meet, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, namely because the crowd you are dealing with is composed mostly of people who are outspokenly pro-piracy (libertarians and all that).  The fact is, it will be pirated no matter how much you try to protect it, and people here will be less apt to support your operation if you try to fight it.  You can already see the animosity rising in this very thread.

I would recommend that your team seriously considers coblee's suggestion.  Release it as a downloadable PDF (or in-page PDF) to paid subscribers, frown on anyone who file shares it or torrents it (make them at least feel guilty about it), and have a note inside the cover suggesting that anyone who downloaded the magazine without paying for it should send 0.5 BTC to an address you specify.  That way, you'll still have the support of EVERYONE from the community.  As it is, you've already received tremendous support from people both verbally and monetarily, and it'd be a shame to see that flushed away trying to control the materials with DRM.

You'll have my support regardless of what you decide to do, but I think a lot of the community support will drop away if you continue with the pro-DRM stance.  It's exactly the wrong crowd to market anything with DRM to.

The fact is, I don't understand enough what "DRM" actually is. If you consider releasing the magazine as a downloadable app "DRM" just because Apple and Android could potentially control it, then I don't really know what to say, and I'll gladly stop commenting on it and let our Marketing manager Mihai Alisie give his thoughts.

If however we are talking about an issue where someone wants to download the PDF and only the PDF, and no other form will suffice, I think I'd have to give them a warm "No thank you" to their business at this particular moment. We're barely 2 weeks old as a business and I'd hate to crush us before we even start.

Everyone already knows my viewpoints, but more important than viewpoints, they know that I am willing to meet needs, adapt and adopt new strategies. I just need in put into a way that makes sense to me. As someone who just bought an Android app and an iPhone app, as well as some stock images the other day, I don't really the arguments and I am clearly in a different school of thought.

Anyone want to help me on this wild and wacky transition?
5436  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:18:05 AM
I personally think that if we have a magazine that is easily stealable, then it deserves to be stolen. We're not going to be giving out a pdf file for example.

Somebody else already pointed out that DRM doesn't work and only harms paying customers. Copyright infringement is not the same as "stealing." It also appears you don't support copyright law at all, by suggesting that "unprotected" works do not deserve copyright protection. By that logic, it is Okay for me to buy a copy, scan it at high resolution, and post it on the Internet.

There is a dangerous line between print and digital though, and I want to make sure that the actions of digital release never complicate the print release. I have no problem with giving the digital away for absolutely free-- it's the fact that we'd have no revenue to print the physical issues that would be the problem.

Whatever we decide, everyone will find out at the same time as we're planning on Android, iPhone and general Web releases as well. I am also very open to suggestions for how to handle it (please, nothing like "Pay with a Tweet") and still keep the magazine alive.

You sound like you may be willing to release back-issues under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-commercial license. Getting the magazine in a timely manner may be enough incentive to encourage purchases of the print edition.

You also seem to be falling into the same trap as my local newspaper's parent company (On a "digital first" strategy). The text is digital information already. Only the graphics are analog. By partnering with e-distributers, you are no longer the publisher. For example, Apple takes a 30% cut and exercises editorial discretion. In the future, they may even inject their own advertisements over your magazine.



All good points. I want to remind everyone here that I am communicating from my own opinion and that no one at BitTalk Media or the magazine's team is supporting my personal opinion on this thread. I just want to share honestly and openly, and am always game to being taught a lesson.

Keep it coming!
5437  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 26, 2012, 12:15:53 AM
Do you think there are more people in the Bitcoin community who...

Will be upset that you use technological measures to prevent copying & sharing, making them not want to support you financially?

or

Will be happy to donate Bitcoin to you after downloading your magazine for free (say from The Pirate Bay) and enjoying your content?

I'll present an additional option that you omitted:

People who appreciate the fact that there actually is a Bitcoin magazine now, will fight for it regardless, and are happy to pay for a high quality issue, but as human beings would also just take it for free and not donate otherwise.

I appreciate the philosophical debate any day of the week, but we're talking business, the life of the magazine, etc. and it seems like although you are presenting very good points, that you're only thinking about what benefits you without thinking about the horrible consequences to the magazine's future.

I see requests to 'make it free', but I don't see anyone tracking down advertisers to make it possible. I see requests to sell it cheaper, but I don't see anyone offering a cheaper printing solution. Trust me when I say that balance is not my specialty, opportunity however is. I don't think I'll ever trade the opportunity to bring this magazine to the masses just to please a few people who want to feel good about stealing it.

We haven't made up our minds yet though so I'll give more information as decisions are made.

UPDATE: Looks like we're going to bagging the issues in plastic as well. It's not cheap, but I think it's a necessary investment on our part to keep our magazine in good condition and keep that quality level high for our readers.

Thanks again everyone for the tremendous support. We still have a long way to go.


5438  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 25, 2012, 11:52:19 PM
Yeah, I paid. What do I get to own?

You get to own code that represents the magazine on your phone. I won't bother to stop you from copying it and sending it out-- that's not my job. My job is to find the best way to distribute it to the largest audience without bankrupting the initiative.


I would recommend that you do away with DRM, and put a bitcoin address (first bits or a link to open up bitcoin app) in the magazine for people to pay for their copy if they got it for free. I believe people who would normally pay for your magazine would send you bitcoins. And those that don't are likely people that wouldn't buy it in the first place, so it's no money lost. Then you can even do the raffles idea and pick a winner each month that gets a free subscription. That would incentivize people to pay for it.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will discuss it with the group but I think this method is a fast track to bankruptcy.
5439  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 25, 2012, 11:44:26 PM

The whole plan is not crystal clear yet to me either as I am rather new to this. I will tell you that we are planning for:

  • iTunes newsstand
  • Android
  • Kindle
  • BitcoinMagazine.net direct view


So sending me the digital copy isn't something you have in mind? Are you worried I'll show my magazine to people? Is it okay if I show the paper copy to people?

I haven't seen viewing as being an issue. People can go to Barnes and Noble and read the entire magazine without buying it for example. It's ownership that should cost money imo.
5440  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This will change Bitcoin as you know it. on: January 25, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people wouldn't be using DRM in the first place.

DRM prevents people who don't know what they're doing from copying a "protected" work. It doesn't stop people who know what they're doing, or people who don't know what they're doing form getting it from those that do.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Impossible_task

(read from Impossible Task on into Shortcomings)

I'm not aware of a single type of DRM that has not been broken. That of Blu-ray discs took a very long time, but it was supposed to be unbreakable.

All good points, but I digress-- by that mentality everything in the world should just be free.

We'll discuss this in depth more as the magazine actually grows. No one in our organization feels even remotely that having a $3 android app, newsstand edition, etc is going to be met with massive amounts of piracy. They also don't feel that we will even need to sell it in the first place-- if we can get the print issues circulated in a high enough volume.

All in good time my friend.
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