@jonoiv
Gold has nothing to do with this, and FYI fiat isn't backed by gold or any tangible assets since 40 years. Some currencies are 'defended' by a certain amount of gold in currencies wars, but that is the extend of it 'backing' anything these days.
It's backed by the ability to prove a debt can be ultimately paid in gold as assumed by the credit agencies. Currency is backed by assets, at least my currency is (GBP). our QE was backed by the purchase of assets. When called to pay debts they are settled in gold. Don't be silly. The small amount of assets that central banks have is nothing compared to the fiat they print. Most assets in central banks are leveraged at 30-40:1 (and usually by shitty assets), and the leverages are going up little by little. Only the IMF has a small leverage of about 3:1 and we dont use SDR's in personal settlements. Fiat has nothing to do with paying a debt back in gold and IF a country were to go bankrupt, gold would be the 1 thing that the country tries to keep. Can a debt be paid in gold? --sure, but there is absolutely nothing that implies that if a country defaults that it will pay its debts in gold or that it even retains enough gold to cover its debts. As far as QE goes, the purpose of it is usually to buy bad assets that are tanking the market and then injecting new currency in exchange for those bad assets. This is an approximation Total circulated fiat in the UK is £90b, and the BOE has 4600 tons left. So circulated notes and coins are only roughly 30% of gold assets. I realise there is much more fiat stored as ledgers and not in circulation. In short in not saying Fiat is pegged to gold, I'm saying it's backed by the ability to settle a debt with gold should it be called on. from 2012 though In the UK, the government’s Exchange Equalisation Account shows 9,971,000 troy ounces of gold on the books. At today’s market value (1,054 British pounds) and the Bank of England’s most recent statement on reserve balances and notes (259.5 billion pounds), Britain’s gold supply constitutes roughly 4.05% of pounds in circulation. |
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Now how does the "peak oil" theory fit in here? Lowering prices to push up the demand makes no sense at all...
oil demand is increasing, just in india and china alone are around atleast 1 billion people who cant wait to live like we do in the western hemisphere. higher oil prices will push people to invent and invest in alternate technologies, lower prices can and probaly will therefore push the demand. |
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While further drops are possible very soon, the market is already in the oversold zone, so a dead cat bounce should follow soon.
Only after that DCB will the market test support at 275$. Unfortunately, bitcoincharts is missing the last 10 days for OKcoin,
and also last 24h for Bitstamp, so I can only rely on BTCChina for indicators.
Stamp hourly RSI is primed for another drop (bounced off 45 from the bottom) and 4hr is about ready to embed below 30. Both good for trending moves. The 12 hour is in bearish, not oversold state and daily has reset since the $275 low. To me, nothing looks that oversodl  DCB after $335-340 to complete the impulse down It doesn't look that oversold yet, and it won't even with the expected drop, it depends how large the oversold zone is defined. My point was that one shouldn't short close to the bottom of the possible drop, because a DCB should follow and could trigger a stop loss. I expected a drop to happen, but with this shitty volume... However, when the market will test 275$, it will look bloody oversold. but thats the perfect stage for a rebound. lots of money to make in the upcoming months |
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...
@dell:
i think the clue was about where you would buy from. i think it was like a discount of 20-30% if you bought dell products via btc from china or similiar.
Link pl0x. I could find nothing. For Overstock too, if possible. "My uncle's friend heard it on IRC" doesn't cut it. @overstock http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-ceo-patrick-byrne-1-6m-bitcoin-sales/@dell they had an up to 15% discount promotion of alienware stuff. and if you bought from china with bitcoins you would have saved around 45% because of their foreign exchange controls. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=701178.0i have a favor good now, took me like 2030 minutes to dig that out --" |
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EDIT: to elaborate further, the problem is that exclusive storage of FIAT on a data structure isn't possible
can you please explain why it wouldn't be possible? i can imagine a blockchain system where generating blocks is actually transfering "fiat" into "blockchain-fiat", withdrawal could mean sending the "blockchain-fiat" to a genesis block which would destroy it. can you please explain why it wouldn't be possible?
Sure, no problem. generating blocks is actually transfering "fiat" into "blockchain-fiat"
At that moment you have the same 'wealth' in both FIAT (that isn't destroyed) and BLOCKCHAIN-FIAT. withdrawal could mean sending the "blockchain-fiat" to a genesis block which would destroy it
Then you need an issuer to give you the FIAT back. yeah thats what banks are experimenting with right now. atleast if they say "experimenting with blockchain technology" i guess it would be not to far from what i think |
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first good answer and shows merchant adoption is actually still good for something. Well, maybe there is hope if the merchants are stupid enough to accept bitcoin as volatile as it is.
The businesses I have helped LOVE bitcoin now. There is no reason to face any price swings. You could use a payment processor and give up 1% for the service. That's better than the 3% you give up to a credit card. Bitcoin also allows some businesses to capture new markets. Look at this place I know. http://centraltexasgunworks.com/ ... Does the nug store offer a discount for using Bitcoin? (link pls) If not, none of my CC charge me the 3% fee you claimed. Once again, Bitcoin is more expensive to use than CC  im pretty sure hes talking from the merchant perspective. also i think in the end you as the consumer will have to pay the fee because it is already priced in /edit btw there are actually some good discounts from big merchants (overstock,dell what i remember right now, also im pretty sure that i saw advertisments of other merchants) If the retailer is not passing the savings on to me, I'm not interested. I'm sure most consumers are not, either. Dell offers no discount for using BTC. Further, Dell redirects buyers to Coinbase.com, so Dell's not accepting Bitcoin--it is accepting fiat via Coinbase, a payment processor that does. Not sure how Overstock does it, but I'm sure it's about the same--a cursory glance mentions Coinbase.com. Overstock also offers its own plastic, giving you savings galore. I'm sure substantially better than whatever promo they ran for Bitcoin. If BTC discount is offered, it is certainly unadvertised  So yeah, chalk up another win for CC  @dell: i think the clue was about where you would buy from. i think it was like a discount of 20-30% if you bought dell products via btc from china or similiar. @overstock overstock is actually holding some % of their btc earnings if i remember correct. but you are right that both use a payment processor to exchange most of their btc to fiat. but its still a long(?) way until you will get payed with btc or can pay taxes with it |
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i closed my short around 350, but atm im inclined to open a new one.
not sure though if we will visit <300.
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EDIT: to elaborate further, the problem is that exclusive storage of FIAT on a data structure isn't possible
can you please explain why it wouldn't be possible? Because fiat is backed by gold, and gold can't be stored as a series of 0's & 1's as data. maybe? ah i see fiat is backed by gold  |
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EDIT: to elaborate further, the problem is that exclusive storage of FIAT on a data structure isn't possible
can you please explain why it wouldn't be possible? i can imagine a blockchain system where generating blocks is actually transfering "fiat" into "blockchain-fiat", withdrawal could mean sending the "blockchain-fiat" to a genesis block which would destroy it. |
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first good answer and shows merchant adoption is actually still good for something. Well, maybe there is hope if the merchants are stupid enough to accept bitcoin as volatile as it is.
The businesses I have helped LOVE bitcoin now. There is no reason to face any price swings. You could use a payment processor and give up 1% for the service. That's better than the 3% you give up to a credit card. Bitcoin also allows some businesses to capture new markets. Look at this place I know. http://centraltexasgunworks.com/ ... Does the nug store offer a discount for using Bitcoin? (link pls) If not, none of my CC charge me the 3% fee you claimed. Once again, Bitcoin is more expensive to use than CC im pretty sure hes talking from the merchant perspective. also i think in the end you as the consumer will have to pay the fee because it is already priced in /edit btw there are actually some good discounts from big merchants (overstock,dell what i remember right now, also im pretty sure that i saw advertisments of other merchants) |
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Just drop to $200 already and wash out the weak hands
Why not 140$? Or 80$? Or 20$? Oh wait, then YOU will be the weak hand... I already bought some @ $350. Bearwhale driven or not, the price is right. This is gentlemen... Yeah, I am not referring to what a fair price would be but the flaw in his thinking. It is not healthy to shakeout investors, after a certain point you 'kill' the asset. IMHO we should NOT fall below 340$, it would be really bad (only with a flash crash and then immediately bouncing up back). I'm not sold on the idea that Bitcoin is dead if it falls below some price X. Keep in mind, price decreased by factor 16 and recovered anyway, 2011 to 2013. I'm not convinced yet we'll make a new significant low from here, but obviously I could be wrong. So let's say we'd go below 340, then 320, then back to 270, fall through and go below the previous ATH. Going back below the previous ATH would be a first in BTC trading, that's for sure, but so what? What it would do is most likely kill all the previously held speculative notions, the idea that we're practically ensured to see an exponential price/mcap increase, or that "Bitcoin will go to 1 million USD eventually". In that case there's a good chance a vast number of current investors would leave for good, and price would deflate to level that seems laughably low right now... but then what? Others will pick it up from there, as long as there is the confidence that Bitcoin is useful for something after all. Cue the trolls: "It's about as useful as beanie babies or tulips". I don't need to tell you that's just noise. The usefulness of Bitcoin (or crypto in general) is undisputed. What is up for debate is the scale at which it will be used (and, as a consequence, what the valuation of the network should be). What I'm getting at is: the worst case you describe is effectively a worst case for the previous valuation model of Bitcoin, but that's not quite identical to the death of Bitcoin (or its valuation, for that matter). Oda Krell: I agree with everything you say here, yet I believe that one aspect that affects perceptions of value remains whether or NOT various entities are engaging in Bitcoin scams and potentially faking the existence of coins through forms of fractional reserve banking (maybe kind of like Gox). IMHO, even those kinds of scams and rip-offs and corruption will NOT kill bitcoin, but they will have tendencies to deflate BTC prices and affect perceptions of BTC value. [...] im pretty sure that we will soonish (1-2 years) see real solutions to the problem of centralized exchanges (fiat <-> crypto). just the fact that banks are already experimenting with blockchain technology is the first step to it. just imagine that bank money will be able to freely transfered to/on a blockchain system; that will enable future decentralized exchanges to run without problems. |
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It's interesting you say that when a good 87% of the people who voted in the poll, that you can see above, are likely to be overly optimistic about the outcome of the price.
We need all those bulls suckers to keep the price up. Bitcoin is zero-sum. as I point out occasionally. For every winner, there must be a loser. wrong, the fed could easily pump bitcoin price to infinity  |
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Und ich stelle Frau Merkel in Frage.
Auch ja... Glückwunsch zur 96 %igen CDU-Parteivorsitz-Wiederwahl-Quote... eine Wahnsinn's Show. Sowas hat natürlich dann auch Vorrang im Neuland.
sowas schafft sonst nur china und nordkorea |
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crash below zero, does that mean people will actually pay me to take their bitcoin?? WTF I WANT CRASH BELOW ZERO NAOW  /edit fuck i feel dumb, i shoulda have read the 20 post before me ._. |
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My feelings tell me that you are/will be one these people @OP  |
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i think its time to close the shorts for now  |
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Why SuperNET is not listed @trex??
Good point. Who has a contact there? bittrex doesnt like crypto 2.0 thats why they dont list them |
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tzz nice try |
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My guess is that several of the 5 kBTC chunks were bids by the same syndicate; the syndicte merged those chunks, and now is distributing the coins to individual sub-bidders. yep thats my guess too, that one syndicate was winning 37 k of 5048k coins |
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