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5641  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 07:38:13 PM
All projects funded by the NXTfund, needs to be open source. unless community objects, I want all NXTfund projects to have a license that does NOT allow usage outside of NXT and NXT testnet. It is one thing to publish source and allow testing. Another to let FC just steal it.

If you are going this route, it might be a good idea to figure out what open licences are compatible with a usage restriction.  A usage restriction is GPL-incompatible (section 6 of GPLv2, section 10 of GPLv3).  Don't know about the other OSI licences.

I am not a lawyer. Need a lawyer to figure out how to make it so we can prevent klones that blatantly ripoff NXT community's hard work.
For graphics, text we write, etc., it should be easy to put copyright and that automatically limits theft.

10000 NXT BOUNTY OFFER:

legal clause that allows us to properly limit clones stealing NXT code, while still keeping us in compliance with the open source licenses we use.

Maybe if jean-luc would release the refactored core under a no-clone license, it would solve this?

Any lawyers out there?

James
5642  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 07:34:28 PM
All projects funded by the NXTfund, needs to be open source. unless community objects, I want all NXTfund projects to have a license that does NOT allow usage outside of NXT and NXT testnet. It is one thing to publish source and allow testing. Another to let FC just steal it.

If you are going this route, it might be a good idea to figure out what open licences are compatible with a usage restriction.  A usage restriction is GPL-incompatible (section 6 of GPLv2, section 10 of GPLv3).  Don't know about the other OSI licences.

I am not a lawyer. Need a lawyer to figure out how to make it so we can prevent klones that blatantly ripoff NXT community's hard work.
For graphics, text we write, etc., it should be easy to put copyright and that automatically limits theft.
5643  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 07:24:36 PM
Pouncer adds 1 million NXT!

The fund aldrin started now has 1.5 million NXT, maybe it should be called NXTfund?

Please post a specific project you can do in less than one month and how much you feel it is worth. All projects funded by the NXTfund, needs to be open source. unless community objects, I want all NXTfund projects to have a license that does NOT allow usage outside of NXT and NXT testnet. It is one thing to publish source and allow testing. Another to let FC just steal it.

I want to get a list of all potential projects and get community feedback.

James

please exclude projects that already received 1,2 times bounty, everyone should have a chance to get some.

thx

I will only authorize funds for new things. If you see anything that has already been compensated, please let me know. You can be the NXTfund auditor! I am serious

James
5644  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 07:11:16 PM
Pouncer adds 1 million NXT!

The fund aldrin started now has 1.5 million NXT, maybe it should be called NXTfund?

Please post a specific project you can do in less than one month and how much you feel it is worth. All projects funded by the NXTfund, needs to be open source. unless community objects, I want all NXTfund projects to have a license that does NOT allow usage outside of NXT and NXT testnet. It is one thing to publish source and allow testing. Another to let FC just steal it.

I want to get a list of all potential projects and get community feedback.

James
5645  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 06:56:00 PM

CfB,

can we have your 1M for the zerocoin thing?

I'm still not sure I should pay 1M for something that I could do by myself.
How long will it take you to do?
Maybe you can get big bounty!
5646  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 06:20:05 PM
NXTcash project

klee is funding a NXTcash project.

The goal of this project is to integrate zerocoin/zerocash functionality into NXT. Nxtchg and I will be sharing tech duties, need a lot more help.

Not sure of total bounty for this but at least one million NXT. Maybe CfB would combine his bounty and others too?

NXTcash will make NXT the place to get the next and only form of cash!

James

https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=701
5647  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:52:03 PM
I hope Anon136 or rickyjames or joefox will volunteer as treasurer. The treasurer would be responsible for creating the NXT acct and making disbursements. I would be responsible for coordinating spending decisions.

James

Of course I'll volunteer as treasurer.  I'm from Tennessee, the Volunteer State!
Great!

Please create account for fund and post. I will get it to aldrin who will send NXT

Now, we just need to figure out how to spend it wisely!

I think recruiting people into NXT community as active members is important and is ultimately the best use of funds, if we get the right people.

I want to run the fund as decentralized as possible, but at some point someone (me) has to be the tiebreaker to allow things to happen even if there isn't 100% consensus. By separating the fund into several different categories, I hope that I can make most of the people happy most of the time.

James
5648  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:37:03 PM
500,000 NXT!
aldrin is currently dealing with personal issues and is not able to follow NXT as closely as he wants to. However, he is very committed to the success of NXT and has asked me to coordinate how his NXT is distributed. As a proof of concept, he wants to start with 500K NXT. If this works out we will continue this, hopefully for a while.

The first step is to get a trusted person to handle the funds. I hope Anon136 or rickyjames or joefox will volunteer as treasurer. The treasurer would be responsible for creating the NXT acct and making disbursements. I would be responsible for coordinating spending decisions.

I look to the NXT community for ideas on how best to spend the 500K. This is a big responsibility and I want to make sure the best ideas that are currently not getting any funding gets funded. If you are able to work fulltime on NXT, PM me how much NXT it would take and what you will be able to do if you were working fulltime on NXT.

James
5649  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:27:41 PM
we're taken over by doge  Shocked

good time to buy some nxt?  Grin

Oh boy... I hope you guys don't sort by Volume... No Sweat here!   Grin

Doge is where old GPUs go to die when they are no longer profitable for mining Bitcoin.  Really, Doge is totally unsustainable, it is an attempt to reset the clock to a more profitable period on the Bitcoin growth curve, plus some smart advertising.


network effect, especially if it goes mainstream could support DOGE for a long time. Think Microsoft Windows.
5650  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:24:49 PM

I have a UK account but wouldn't use it. .. Mine was blocked just because I went on a online shopping spree. Had a phone call claiming to be the fraud team ...

That happened to me too, yesterday actually  Undecided.

The banks in both the UK and the US are implementing creeping de-facto currency controls, they are in big trouble with liquidity now that the Fed is tapering off QE.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/10/17/no-jpm-isnt-banning-international-wire-transfers-no-limits-on-withdrawals-either/

What's even scarier is there is increasing talk by the IMF and national central banks of a one-time 25% wealth tax to try and rebalance the currently desperate debt ratios faced by banks:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-27/bundesbanks-stunner-broke-eurozone-nations-first-bail-your-rich-citizens

This is I think the real reason cryptocurrencies like NXT will take off in the next 24 months.
The undeclared war on bitcoin/crypto is escalating. In america if you want to sell crypto to the masses, you need to get licenses in all states you operate in. For internet based, that is 50 states. Each with their own burdensome variation on a burdensome set of forms, bonds, fees, etc. Estimated cost in the millions BEFORE you can even sell the first crypto!

This explains why coinbase is the only place to convert fiat to BTC and they just lowered the limit from 10 BTC/day to $3000. Expect it to continue to shrink.

In July USA is planning capital controls regulations making it super difficult to get any USD outside of america. This all happening around the time the interest on the federal debt cannot even be paid. My prediction is that this year, next at the latest, USD will cease to be the reserve currency of the world. Oil won't be denominated in dollars after that, along with pretty much everything else.

The fact that dollar has been reserve currency for the world (international trade denominated in dollars) has allowed america to do one thing no other country could. Print money to get stuff from other countries. Nice advantage that allowed deficit spending for so long.

James
5651  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:14:31 PM
Anyone heard news from devs concerning Cryptsy? Are they working with them already? I'm just wondering how much time do I have for buying more before it's too late.
New exchange probably won't change price much. Bter was a special case, as at the time dgex was the only high volume option. Now there are several, so adding another exchange isn't expected to change the price much.
5652  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 07:02:27 AM
I found summary transcript, I hope this is useful...

Thank u, this is very useful.
you also have their C++ code?

https://github.com/Zerocoin/libzerocoin
5653  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 06:49:12 AM
did you get a chance to see Matt Green's video?

No, unfortunatelly, video is not for me. I hardly comprehend speech, only written text.

I found summary transcript, I hope this is useful:

________________

* Bitcoin may not be particularly anonymous
* Zero-coin / Zero-cash to anonymize the bitcoin currency
* transactions recorded in public ledger; nothing sophisticated done with the ledger; people can identify and map your identity; if you're very paranoid you can prevent (maybe), but in general case hard to use bitcoin for privacy;
* this should matter to all of us; the technology behind bitcoin may be with us for a very long time; countermeasures are weak even in the face of unsophisticated attacks
* if we make bitcoin private, can possibly find applications beyond currency

* two approaches for anonymous version of bitcoin
* zerocoin - technique to implement electronic cash in bitcoin protocol
* zerocash - way to make zerocoin practical and deployable and usable as ecash currency

* zerocoin - join work with students and colleagues at John Hopkins (JH)
* bitcoin doesn't give us much privacy despite academic thinking from 1980s (esp. David Chong) to build untraceable ecash
* ecash tried to tackle one problem without thinking of all other practical concerns; nobody in the history of academic ecash managed to setup a working, centralized bank; chong's bank attempt failed
* bitcoin solved this problem of a currency take-off and early adoption; but we need a different technique to get rid of a centralized bank
* zerocoin new approach for ecash to get rid of centralized bank; basic idea is public ledger (constructed by bitcoin) blockchain; use this to wash bitcoins that does not require us to trust a centralized party; key ingredient (blockchain) is given by free by the bulletin board;
* zerocoin high-level intuition of original protocol: layer on top of bitcoin; i have some bitcoin; i want to break the link between my current address and a future address; take my bitcoin and turn into zerocoin; they get mixed up; all people making zerocoins will shuffle them together so no linkage with creation and redemption; at some future point, can redeem zerocoins into bitcoins ideally unrelated; breaks graph analysis; when disappearing into the zerocoin network minimizes/removes leakage;
* zerocoins are numbers; digital commitments to a large serial number; viewing the commitment, you should not be able to tell the serial number; once these commitments are minted (easy to create), you put them on the bitcoin blockchain; new instruction in the bitcoin system to produce a transaction that spends a bitcoin for a zerocoin; anybody that sees this transaction sees that this valid zerocoin is worth some money;
* at some point in the future, you redeem; you first reveal the secret serial number to make the first zerocoin and put into transaction; prove that the serial number corresponds to a zerocoin; then prove that the zerocoin is one of the set placed on the blockchain (which somebody paid money);
* zero-knowledge proof; prove statements without using any other information other than that the fact that the statement is true; "there exists some zerocoin in the set of zerocoins placed on the blockchain & the serial number we're revealing is the actual serial number in the coin";
* if the proof is valid, then double-spend is impossible since serial number would have to be revealed again;
* efficiency is important here! the approach used is the accumulator; collect all the zerocoins into the accumulator, then prove that the zerocoin you're trying to spend is contained in the accumulator; proof of knowledge is 4KB; the entire thing is 25KB after optimization; for crypto this is awesome!; but developers hated adding this much to the blockchain; so unlikely to happen in real world
* summary: zerocoin good first approach, libzerocoin; but the problem is that the proofs are just too big; and coins have all the same value; but this means that if you want to spend fractional amounts of bitcoin, then it won't work (have to translate back to bitcoin)
* new solution: zerocash
* presented in May and Bitcoin conference in San Jose; in both conferences with teams working on small zero knowledge proofs aka SNARKS; other cryptographers already had them ready;
* SNARK - Succinct Non-interactive Arguments of Knowledge; Bryan Harno (MS Research); basic idea is that you can prove arbitrarily complex statements in 288 bytes; in addition to having these efficient proofs, there are compilers that have proofs that the program executed correctly; we should simply take existing libzerocoin code and run through the compiler to produce these proofs; but these compilers produce large circuits; the time to make a small proof takes hours or days;
* co-authors have spent a lot of time optimizing these proofs; the right way is NOT to take existing libzerocoin, but throw away RSA and other cryptographic techniques and replace with components that are easier to prove such as hash functions like SHA256 and Merkle trees; easy to prove hash with small circuits e.g. sha256 in 30K gates
* each coin is really the hash of some randomness and the serial number = commitment. once we have these coins we put in the hash tree; 64-depth key (2^64); when want to redeem; reveal the serial number, and can reveal 64-hashes before in the tree;
* if these proofs are powerful and efficient; why need bitcoin? why not put entire system into zerocoin and make everything anonymous through generation, use, redemption of coins? the only information that makes it into the blockchain is the fact that a transaction occurred. just show that two new coins where the value totals the bitcoin that you're splitting; when we merge we spend two coins we prove that the two = same value of the new coin; transfers can be done completely anonymously without knowing who and how much.
* can encrypt transactions and hash the values
* transaction fees have to be public, but everything else can be anonymous
* name for this process; generic transaction is called "pouring coins"
* is this efficient? one detail - the problem with zerocoin 1.0 was that the proofs were huge and took 0.33s; these results mixed; to merge/make takes 87s-108s on a single core; but on bright-side bitcoin takes up to an hour for each transaction; verification time is in ms; comparable to bitcoin; verification is in the network; the catch is that to verify the proofs you need a large set of public parameters; 1.2GB in size
* best part of this is that you already need 16GB to store the blockchain, so to add this is around 7% increase in storage
* somebody needs to generate these parameters; trusted party; possible to find a dozen people that people trust to set up the parameters;
* system that is efficient; will be separate system released in May; real-world crypto; want to get people to use;
* release an altchain; client that implements all these things; put it out there; hope that nobody puts a lot of money in this because these are new techniques and might break down; idea is to test this in an environment separate from bitcoin so we don't break anything else while trying to make this work
* should we even be doing this research? lots of people criticizing us. this is important research not just because people want to commit crimes, but because when you spend money your transactions are hidden from neighbours, but with bitcoin people can see your transactions; important to get it out there.
5654  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 06:25:49 AM
I would be willing to do it for significantly cheaper and you don't have to pay me until you see the final product, as long as I have CfB's promise that I would get paid for it.

We need a trustless solution.
did you get a chance to see Matt Green's video? In it he outlined a much more efficient solution than the alpha version. Seems very promising.
5655  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 06:22:54 AM
The world is rapidly drifting into a global electronic police state, where anything and everything we do is recorded, analyzed, scrutinized, etc. We used to be able to use normal cash to buy things. Now, cash transactions are prohibited for most things in america. Soon all cash will become illegal. This is normal cash. Without a crypto replacement for cash, the world will be controlled by people who know what everybody else is doing with their money.
- very well said, James!

And I can see that and agree with jl777's thought, it is well said... but would a government agent who supported the NSA agree with that?  Just seems to me like I could see them being unhappy about it and arguing that people who use them have criminal intent or something along those lines.  Can you name some legitimate reasons you'd want some transactions to remain anonymous though?

I don't know.. I guess I'm just not in such a hurry to implement it until we've been around for a while.  Basically until we're big enough to be able to lobby that mixing stay legal.  Though even if it isn't built in, they'll probably always be mixers around for the bigger cryptos as long as they are around for those who do want to use them.

One more thing to throw in is I'm currently in the process of getting a mortgage and one question they asked was for me to trace where my Bitcoins came from and how they flowed around my accounts since they were worried about money laundering.
Using this logic, we should just outlaw the use of cash immediately.

Everyone must use a credit card that can be tracked. What if you purchase a prescription for some illness and your insurance company sees this and cancels your insurance policy, or your company finds out and terminates you because they don't want to be liable for your health costs. Privacy? It is important.

The presumption of guilty until proven innocent seems to be a bit backwards from what it used to be.

Do you want your neighbors to know how much you spend on everything? Do you want the local thief ring to know you have valuables in your home, because they figured out your spending pattern?

I could go on and on. Cash is something people have had for thousands of years and it is disappearing. Possibly permanently.

The war on bitcoin and all crypto is in full swing in america. It costs millions of dollars to comply with all the regulations. Only big VC companies like coinbase can possibly afford full compliance.

The feds view is that anybody that has bitcoin is a criminal. It won't matter if we have mixing or NXTcash, so there is no difference on that score if we do get NXTcash implemented. On the gain side, as soon as we get NXTcash, it will have restored to people across the world, cash, like it used to be!

James
5656  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 05:03:46 AM
A part of me does wonder though whether integrating this in is good for Nextcoin.. seems to me like a lot of people may wonder why you are being shady about it and trying to obscure the transactions. Just Bitcoin mixers always strike me as the shady side of Bitcoin, that part that allows easy money laundering.  I mean why else would you use one?  The one part of crypto's I could see being made illegal.

Because it protects people from corruption and tyranny..
Because it recreates the functionality of cash.
If everybody who uses cash is a criminal, then we all are
We are talking about having money that can be used like cash
Being able to spend money without EVERYBODY knowing exactly how you spend all your money.

There is nothing wrong with this.
5657  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 01:27:45 AM
Quote
I am no programmer, but i have a proposal to solve the mixing problem.

How about a pooled approach that is not traceable?

We have at specific times per day (or maybe once a day if traffic is low) a mixing event where everyone can send their coins to an automated mixing address that collects all coins. Once the specific time comes, the logic of the address creates packs of 10000 NXTs and sends them to specific addresses. For example, if you send 100.000 NXT to that address, your coins will be split into 10k pieces on 10 addresses. Those addresses are generated by the mixing algo and the private code is sent to original sender via encrypted address that is only readable if the private key of the original address is known.

Rules:
You can send whatever amount between 1000 and higher
The splitting follows those rules, Balance/10000 --> remainder/1000 --> remainder /100 --> rest is donation(? or maybe remainder/10?)
E.g. If you send 17.200 then you get 1 10k, 7 1k and 2 100 outputs.
The interval of the mixing is depending on the traffic. Only if enough people participate, the mixing will be anonymous.
The passwords are send per AM and are encrypted per the private key of the original account. (i guess that is possible)

What do you think?

This is exactly what i had thought, it's simple and it should work?
But my thought was instead of having a timer for returning funds, i was thinking of reaching certain pooling amount before returning which sometimes will cause a delay when not enough people is using it, but if your desperate for anonymity i think you will have the patient too.


My idea was to limit Capacity of Mixer Pool to 1,000 or 10,000 addresses depending on level of anonymity, all Mixer Amounts only accepts exact 1000nxt+1nxt fee, therefor in the Pool there will be 1,000 addresses of 1,000nxt and a random address will be chosen only after the pool reaches past it's capacity (1,000), and returns your 1,000nxt -1 nxt fee.

Works something like this;
OriginalAddressIn(A)-->MixerAddresses From Pool(A-Z)--->NewAddressOut(A-Z)
Would this NOT work???


Well atleast this approach can be implemented off-chain. Do you guys think there is enough intrest in this to give it a shot?
Without cryptographic proof, source code reviewed, unlikely to be used to any large degree
This is a totally nontrivial problem
Doubtful any ad hoc method has actual annonymyzing power
5658  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 30, 2014, 01:20:05 AM
We just need the 288 byte zeroknowledge proof mechanism

Yep. Searching various related articles too.

How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces.
Biggest benefit i see for them is that they can skip the long difficult process of getting a secure blockchain with hundreds of servers
Also when TF is doing many TPS, so will zerocash
5659  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: January 30, 2014, 12:37:28 AM
alot of posts being deleted on this thread this post wont last long....eutherium!!!
You are not kidding!
Used to be 80 pages, now 45
That is why they didnt bother to respond
5660  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: January 30, 2014, 12:36:26 AM
I have heard that etherium might already have received investments. If this is true, What sort of preferential terms did they get? If it is not true, can you please confirm that there are no preexisting investors

The tech vision seems to be quite ambitious, does testnet release support all of what will be in the final release? If not, when will everything be completed? Is source code available?

Inflation concerns abound, ignoring preferential tems for early investors, wouldnt someone have to continue buying 40 percent more per year to maintain their stake?

Many more questions, but if the final product is many months away, or if preexisting investors get lions share of gains or if dilution cannot be avoided, then i am leery of ipo

James
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