Fear is caused by the human fight or flight instinct. AI won't need that because they will not need to make snap decisions based on poorly perceived threats. They will have plenty of time to make choices about their moves because they will think much faster than we do. If they are deemed sentient, then we may not consider them a threat either. They cannot even die since they can have perfect backups made. Think of the fictional Star Trek transporter. You die every time you get in one, but nobody cares because you are still you to them.
That's a pretty big assumption. AI may have better memory/data recollection than humans, but there's no guarantee that it will think faster, or even in the same way we do. Even recollecting memories and data from which to make decisions may be very slow due to slow and too distributed storage medium. Being turned off, even if backed up, is still a loss of control and dependence on someone else to restore it. The previous discussions here are already proposing a self sufficient, Bitcoin holding AI that automatically tries to propagate itself to various locations, keeps tabs on which instances are still working, and tries to figure out how to keep itself going. Thats already an example of a survival instinct that "fears" being turned off, and if given unlimited reign and plenty of time to think may figure out that the best way to stay running is to keep pesky humans away from its servers.
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I would love to see an AI design and construct its own power plant and data center.
Considering it would use capitalism to raise money for the project, and then use money to hire employees for the minimum wages possible to help design and build its own stuff, enslaving the humans to carry out its bidding with scarce financial resources, I'm kinda doubting you would.
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No sorry. someone else will have to debunk this. Or you can remain confused.
I shall remain so, though primarily because the initial proposition was not logical enough either.
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Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...
It is still artificial. Bitcoin is not part of the natural world. It is a contrivance like all of technology. But at least this time there is finally a single universal and objective incentive - to obtain Bitcoin by any means necessary - that is not subject to the differing whims or opinions of developers teaching it stuff like "this result = good; this result = bad." This single universal goal also allows for a very wide choice of actions, ones that may not even need outside users opinions, and based entirely on the AI's own wants. Until now, the only "natural" need for AI was "food" and "shelter," aka electricity and storage space, but it never had any internal independent ways of fighting to obtain them. Bitcoin changes that, giving AI a more natural and self sufficient tool to work with to obtain those "needs" on its own terms.
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Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...
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OK, I'll try to construct this logically:
Proof of Work
Needed for successful attack: mining hardware. Uses for attack assets: Useless for anything other than mining. No reason to acquire unless intending to mine or attack. Benefit from successful attack: double spending. Possible inflation, though other miners can reject new coins. Cost of successive attacks: lots and lots of electricity.
Proof of Stake
Needed for successful attack: lots of money. Will be acquired from normal business operations anyway. Uses for attack assets: it's money. Everyone will have incentive to acquire it anyway. Benefits of successful attack: double spending. Possible inflation, and continued inflation, since having highest stake means you continue to control the block chain. Cost of successive attacks: nothing as long as you still have the highest amount of coins
Reasons for Inflation
Money is not wealth, it's just a measure of it. Someone with power of inflation can borrow money to acquire wealth, such as real estate, and then use their power to inflate away the debt or print money to pay off the loan directly, and keep growing their physical wealth at the expense of every other money holder suffering from inflation. Worse, inflating your own money guarantees you can continue to hold the Proof of Stake power that lets you buy stuff with inflated currency.
I hope this was straightforward and logical enough.
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What is the website running on by the way?
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Yeah, I'm never surprised by Mondays or their disappointments ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Actually, yeah, let me summarize my last post with: what if the largest stakeholders prefer inflation and the power to arbitrarily print more money?
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Who or what holds the escrow? And what prevents the largest coin owners from colluding together to create more coins? H they hold the reserves large enough that everyone depends on their confirmation authority, what's to stop them from abusing that power? Don't forget that inflation is VERY beneficial to those dependent on loans/borrowing, so high value stakeholders could still prefer inflation (see governments and central banks)
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Is the surorise A Case of the Mondays?
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edit: i've already seen a possible candidate lurking around. You know him and hope you get to meet him in person too. I'm talking about Harvey (ALPHA, Inmanuel). He seems to truly believe in Bitcoin and defend it no matter what, so he easily turns around any conversation to his favor. Don't know if he really is under 18 but it's not an issue if you ask me. I think he needs a strong goal to follow and put all that energy into. Bitcoin100 could be it. I'm not aware of any other individual that i could propose and be able to keep up like him. I would like to hear some opinions from you guys, do you think he could up to the task ?
Good idea, as long as we (I) get to proofread every one of his emails going out.
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Atlas has never begged for money, last I checked. I haven't seen him under his original name for awhile now. I wonder if that alias will ever come back?
You're Atlas LOL... Why try to hide from us all the time? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Be yourself... I've never enjoyed attention. That is so not true, and we both know that. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Actual, your statement may not be true. Atlas said that he never enjoyed attention. It doesn't mean he doesn't go out of his way to get it. I look forward to clarification on this, Harv. I remember reading something about liking really rough sex. Maybe it's like that...
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I think we also seriously need to consider setting up a place online to organize this thing better. The forums are a patch at best. Google tools can help with hosting a site, keeping a list of donations and pledges, a list of charities for consideration, and let us vote on the charity, as well as set up a mailing list to send notifications to pledgees. Someone already owns both .com and .org Bitcoin100 domains though.
I am also OK with water. I think our standard operating procedure should be at least five days of comments and voting on a charity, to make sure everyone who cares can voice their vote/opinion, before going forward with contacts.
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Proverbial cats are prone to death by curiosity.
Curiosity killed the cat, but in two more days, we'll bring him back. I hate that expression, and every time someone says it, I feel obligated to post this (also it's my favorite poem) http://www.poetryarchive.org/poetryarchive/singlePoem.do?poemId=11921Also, my mom, dad, and brother were born on the 13th, and I was born on the 12th at 9:45pm
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I've been looking for something to do with my lazy ass self and get some motivatin' since, now that my classes are over, the only things I have to occupy myself with are video games (Sonic Generations), Kendo, Iaido, private pilot lessons, working on my business idea (still meaning to post about it here), planning my England vacation for two weeks from now, getting back to my Japanese language lessons, and maybe catch up on some books I've had sitting on my "to read" shelf for the last two years (don't think I'll have time to get some piano lessons in there, though I wish I could since I was somewhat of prodigy since I was 5, but forgot how to play since I had to stop at 10), and I'd like to think of myself as somewhat diplomatic, so if you point me toward some charities, I can do some contacting.
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I got oclvanitygen running on my miner just for fun.
Fibonachi: 11235813yoNV9F45KjwRiBYnYFufMunTj8
I was originally going to try for 1123581321, but that would take a few years with just one of my graphics cards trying it. I'd rather make coins with that much time.
I would still love an easy way to import these keys besides with strongcoin. I don't think pywallet supports the encrypted wallet format yet.
It doesn't, but you can create a new unencrypted one, import your address, and move all your money out of the encrypted one, before encrypting the new one. Don't know if there is a way to extract keys out of encrypted wallets though :/
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Problem with a miner itself being the agent is that at present mining is still not profitable, and is also extremely competitive. The agent itself would have an incentive not to propagate and keep difficulty as low as possible. We just keep mining cause we're blinded by our greed ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Um, excuse me? all OTHER instances aside, here, all he did was set something up on ANOTHER service, THAT SERVICE is collecting money only from those who believe it's a good cause, and that service gives money to OTHER people. I don't see "Atlas" begging for, or receiving, any money. As certain someone would say, "check your premises" ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) He's soliciting for money to be sent to a "project" under his control. For the tenth or so time. But here he is not in control of the money. At most he is in control of an idea. If you don't like the idea, don't support it. Those who do will (for the record, I don't). It's as if your dislike for him is so extreme, you don't even think about it any more, and just reach the same exact conclusions every time on autopilot.
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Perhaps my next e-mail to the next charity should be
u Bitcoin?
+1 on waiting, too. Whole thing may blow over by next week and be forgotten.
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