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5741  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Prediction/proposal for growth of the bitcoin economy on: April 19, 2011, 07:07:01 AM
I feel pretty strongly about this.  I'm all for going where the money is, but if bitcoin becomes the internet's gambling token, that's going to jeopardize the future of the system, imo.  Anything that serves to marginalize this currency by tying an association to gambling, illegal activities, the black market has got to be regarded in a "proceed with caution" way.  I was glad to see silk road go underground when it did. 

Huh

When did it go underground?  It was pretty far underground from the start.
5742  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Trading Arkansas Quartz Crystal specimens for Bitcoins... on: April 19, 2011, 06:36:44 AM
My daughter likes pretty rocks, any photos?

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw the site.
5743  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Trading Quartz Crystals for Bitcoins... on: April 19, 2011, 04:17:11 AM
Oh, that kind of quartz crystals.

I was thinking that you were offering radio parts.
5744  Economy / Economics / Re: Defending Capitalism on: April 19, 2011, 04:08:41 AM

To stay within the context of the thread, true free-market Capitalism has only been destroyed by statist political structures. It has never destroyed itself, unless, of course, a free-market society is always doomed to be sucked into this vacuum of power.

I'm on another forum, where this exact concept came up.  The idea was presented in the context of a human future similar to Serenity wherein a true free market exists on the leading edge of an ever expanding front of human occupation.  The theory being that those who seek freedom are always leaving the comforts of society and venturing outward to found new colonies, and for several generations those new colonies function as anarchist societies in a similar vein to the "Wild West" Western territories of the US before they were states; but eventually as the population grows on the colony, the society becomes ever more statist until those who seek freedom are driven outward in search of a new colony.
5745  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: newbie questions: fee estimation, file size prediction, ISP blocking on: April 19, 2011, 01:19:52 AM
I wonder if an attacker could harm the network by taking over the IRC server it uses?

Not for long.  IRC is not a critical aspect of the system.  IT's not even part of the protocol, and is only used as a peer discovery method that is not exclusive.
5746  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 19, 2011, 01:17:48 AM
The "right to copy" is not a right, but a privilage, and as such cannot be seperated from the current government/corporate collusion.

Perhaps not, but it could be derived from the right to property, depending on what defines property.

So define property without exclusivity of use and without exclusivity of resource, and you might be able to define it such that the term is can both refer to historical examples of property and IP.
5747  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 19, 2011, 12:11:05 AM


Let me say that I consider it initiation of force to take property which belongs to someone else and using force to prevent it would be justified.


This is true, but what the disconnect here is what defines property.

Quote

I've seen the result of intellectual property theft and I don't like it. The market adjusts and less people spend time creating things that are easy to copy, so the quality of those things are diminished.

This is not an argument in favor of copyrights.  Your opinions on the quality of products are irrelevent.
5748  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 18, 2011, 11:55:13 PM
Yes, it's theft.  But only because 1) the data is his and he made no attempt to publish it, so by default he intended to keep it; and 2) the wallet.dat file has only one function, and therefore copying it without the owner's consent can have only one motive.  I.E. to spend another person's funds.

I don't think that this is comparable to "intellectual property" because the core point of copyrights and such is to maintain a market advantage over other publishers, not to protect secrets.

So using a telescopic lens to photograph blueprints that I've created, then producing and selling the item for yourself, would be theft as well?

Yes.

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But reverse engineering a product that I've sold and selling the exact same item for less (because you didn't have to invest in the creation), is OK?

Okay?  I don't know if it's okay.  As a generality, it might be immoral and an unethical business practice; but what if that product was a cure for AIDS but the same company that sold it at an inflated price did so while selling a much cheaper maintaince drug?  I could think of any number of strawmen to burn here, but the point is not whether it's okay to intentionally compete with an inventor by reverse engineering their work.  The point is that it's not ethical to advocate for the use of force to punish said unethical behaviour.  You can take steps to prevent your trade secrets from being stolen, including using force against anyone who tresspasses to that end, but once the cat is out of the bag, use or advocacy of force to punish said person is easily as wrong as the original "crime".  I wouldn't do it, nor would I support anyone that I knew did it, but nor would I support the original inventor if he decided to hire a group of thugs to tear down his competitors' factories.

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Forget the current government / corporation collusion. What if the core point of copyrights was exactly what it implied?  Right to copy.

The "right to copy" is not a right, but a privilage, and as such cannot be seperated from the current government/corporate collusion.
5749  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Withdaw money from MtGox on: April 18, 2011, 11:25:05 PM
Has anyone had success withdrawing thier money from MtGox lately?  I tried doing a witdrawal via Liberty Reserve and that did not work.  It said withdrawal via Liberty Reserve was down.  My preference would be a withdrawal via wire transfer but I cannot seem to reach anyone at MtGox to put that into effect.  I see no place where I can interact with them on the site and I've e-mailed info@mtgox and have received no reply.  How do you get your money out of MtGox short of buying back bitcoins and sending them elsewhere for exchange???

It seems that MtGox was sold to a person living in Japan, who has had limited contact since the tsunami.  MtGox has apparently been mostly running on auto-pilot since the tsunami.  No advice as to how you should proceed.
5750  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Portable bitcoin client downloads 1 block and stops on: April 18, 2011, 11:20:19 PM
The block chain did finish downloading, up to current block, but it did so in starts and stops.

That's fairly normal.  The client downloads old blocks in groups of up to 500 at a time, and then proceeds to hash-check all of them before moving onto the next set.
5751  Economy / Marketplace / Re: List of honest traders. on: April 18, 2011, 11:17:37 PM
-10 for anyone associated with

IP: 69.72.189.147

Why?
5752  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 18, 2011, 11:15:26 PM
Bitcoins can't be copied, wallet can.
I don't see how copying his wallet and taking his bitcoins wouldn't be illegal under US law.
It has a value and it seems like that would be theft for sure.


Yes, it's theft.  But only because 1) the data is his and he made no attempt to publish it, so by default he intended to keep it; and 2) the wallet.dat file has only one function, and therefore copying it without the owner's consent can have only one motive.  I.E. to spend another person's funds.

I don't think that this is comparable to "intellectual property" because the core point of copyrights and such is to maintain a market advantage over other publishers, not to protect secrets.
5753  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 18, 2011, 11:08:24 PM

The patent system does need a reform, I would suggest that anyone who applies for a patent should pay $1 for this patent. This has to be renewed every year, and each time the cost doubles. It won't be too many years until most patents enters the public domain. Same thing for copyrights I think.
Ok, it's a goofy idea that some friends an me thought up while drunk and should probably be refined, but as a general idea I don't think it's that bad.  Cool

That's as good an idea as any, but it still doesn't solve the problem with regard to the state enforcement of a monopoly.
5754  Other / Off-topic / Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1 Opens Today on: April 18, 2011, 11:05:03 PM
She stuck to her philosophy but it cost her.

Except for the bit where she went on government assistance...

It was never a violation of objectivism to take advantage of the system that exists.
5755  Economy / Economics / Re: Request for comment on an article about deflation. on: April 18, 2011, 11:03:55 PM
@creighto

I disagree, the US is teetering on governmental debt collapse. One bad auction and it's all over. Since the banks at the auctions are all Fed backed buyers there will never be a bad auction. However when any of the holders of US debt finally realize that the debt simply will never be paid back then the US government can rapidly reach a scenario where it pays more in interest than it gathers in taxes. This will again never be allowed and the outstanding debt will simply be bought by newly printed money. However outside of a decreasing money supply, you cannot loan such vast amounts to the government without quickly reaching unsustainable inflation. So the federal government can only be funded by what is contracting in the money supply without causing panic. This means you have a very shaky situation that if they pull it off leads to everyone being contracted by the government and the availability of freely (free market) produced goods falling very low and the purchasing price of a dollar along with it. I doubt they can pull it off.

This is however only one of the ways the US federal government is broke. If we add social security and or the medical programs then we definitely have the political event you spoke of.

I don't disagree, but the question becomes "when?"  Austrian economists have been predicting this for decades, and they are right, but all that have provided a time frame have been wrong.

Quote
Have you read Thomas Woods' Rollback?
No, I have not.

5756  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: April 18, 2011, 10:03:11 PM
Tell me before you abandon IP-law so that I can withdraw all money from medical research. Copying a drug is dead simple but finding a drug that is actually effective takes years of research by highly skilled professionals, not to mention expensive testing and clinical trials.

You should probably go ahead and withdraw your investements then, since generics are a well established industry.  And since the only thing that prevents this 'pirate' industry from undercutting the market price of any drug in existance is an international network of government enforced monopolies; should any of these major governments fail and be replaced with anything else, none are likely to be too concerned with enforcement of patent laws for a number of years.
5757  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I recommend everybody SELLs... on: April 18, 2011, 09:58:44 PM

I think you are under estimating the current, real-world usefulness bitcoin already has to a certain sector of society, black and grey markets. It maybe difficult and tricky but it is getting better and already better than some of the alternatives ..... while this demand exists there will be 'real trade' floor under the market that is not speculative.
 

After all, many of the world's most successful financial institutions have their roots in various black or grey markets.  Bitcoin certainly isn't the first system to depend upon nefarious activities in it's infancy.
5758  Economy / Economics / Re: Request for comment on an article about deflation. on: April 18, 2011, 09:54:26 PM
I take a dim view of the idea that a barrel of oil is going to ever hit $10 anytime soon.  Not that I don't somewhat agree with their analysis, but if such massive deflation occurs (this would be roughly a 10x increase in US FRN trade value, which almost certainly requires an equal drop in the monetary base) it's not going to be occurring in a sudden manner unless some very unlikely events occur.  Such as an asteroid impact takes out the entire credit system of the US while leaving the US federal government largely intact.  In a slower deflationary perioid, as we were in between 2008 & 2009, a deflationary contraction of credit can (and was) be largely balanced out by the increase of the monetary base (printing, electronic creation, quanitative easing, etc) so that the consuming public doesn't really see a great deal of changes of prices.  This creates other inbalances, which eventually can lead to an inflationary period (which we have been in since at least Jan of this year).

That said, hyperinflation simply isn't in the cards, unless the US federal government actually ceases to exist.  Hyperinflation is, always and everywhere, a political event not an economic one.  Since the House of Reps control fiscal policy, and at present the Federal Reserve still controls monetary policy, and the House is presently dominated by fiscal conservatives; a political trigger for hyperinflation would truly be a black swan.
5759  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: More divisibility required - move the decimal point on: April 18, 2011, 09:33:10 PM
[Ah, got it - dodgy tool manufactures using metric but labelling in AS.


Actually, more likely the other way around.  Said dodgy tool manufactures originaly sold vastly more AS toolsets than Metric sets, although that's likely no longer so.
Quote
Anyway... apologies for dragging this hugely off-topic, and thanks for providing your insight.

You're quite welcome.
5760  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: newbie questions: fee estimation, file size prediction, ISP blocking on: April 18, 2011, 09:24:36 PM
4) Bitcoin uses IRC, so an ISP would have to block IRC to stop it.

Bitcoin doesn't use IRC for communication. It uses TCP over a fixed port, which makes it very easy to block. You can use Tor to bypass this, though.

It connects to an IRC server though when it is downloading the blockchain. Does it change the port from there?

The client does not require access to IRC to bootstrap, it's just quicker.  The clients communicate directly with one another in a peer-to-peer fashion, and do not require IRC or any other client-server protocol to act as a network intermediary.
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