Note that I don't mean Roth IRA vs Traditional IRA -- I've already decided Roth is better.
I mean Roth IRA vs Bitcoin.
What say you?
Right now I'm in both to diversify. The more time that passes, however, the more confidence I gain and the more % of my assets I move into Bitcoin. But I haven't cracked my IRA at all to buy BTC, but sometimes I wonder why I have it if the government may decide to confiscate it some day anyway ( hey, Argentina has done it, as well as many other countries that got into financial problems... )
You make over 6 figures? If you don't Roth is probably going to cost you money. Roth will only cost you less if you will have a very large IRA at retirement. I wouldn't even dream of putting a significant chunk of retirement monies into BTC. If BTC goes really mainstream, a few thousand USD into it now will turn into millions later. BTC has several risk factors that could take it to near zero... Your information on a Roth is wrong. The tax savings of a Roth has nothing to do with the account value or making over 6 figures. A Roth is highly beneficial to young professionals in the long term. The idea behind a Roth is that early on in a young person's career, that person will be making less money and his contributions to the Roth are taxed at a low rate. Once the person reaches the age for qualified distributions from the Roth, he will theoretically be taxed at a higher rate (having advanced in his career, making more money, putting him in a higher tax bracket). Since the distributions in a Roth IRA are tax free, the person has saved money by the contributions be taxed at the lower tax rate of the person's younger years. With a Roth your betting that your post retirement tax bracket will be higher then the your pre retirement tax bracket. Unless you have a big fat amount in your IRA, your post retirement tax bracket will be LOWER then your pre retirement tax bracket. So unless your making alot of money to have a very large IRA you DO NOT want a Roth IRA. That theory of an advancing career is becoming more and more of a pipe dream in this economy. Lots and lots of folks are losing their jobs and having to take lower paying ones. My information on Roth is entirely correct. Lots of folks end up giving the government their taxes now at a higher rate then they would pay at retirement, because they just know they will have a perfect career and a big huge nest egg at retirement..... There is likely a crossover point where your point is valid, but while I'm young and paying 0 taxes, I'm going to put my retirement funds in a Roth. If I ever start paying taxes above the minimum rate, I may look into other options. Saying it's only good if you are making a lot of money is false. |
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I would bet the Israeli Intelligence sees what they do as the same. They are only standing up to those hate-spewing Palestinians...
Of course they do. I didn't say there was anything wrong or immoral about this. Maybe slightly unethical - creating false perception of public consensus - but then, anyone who lets some random comments shape his political views is an idiot anyway and what they think doesn't matter that much. On the other hand, when it comes to technical and scientific stuff - like Bitcoin - there's absolutely nothing unethical about correcting common misconceptions. In fact, I wish someone knowledgeable commented on that random "Bitcoin is a scam" blog post that made me miss out on early adoption, when I googled Bitcoin in 2010. Or you could learn your lesson about trusting blogs  . In an ideal world, people would know how to think for themselves, but I can see your point about technical and scientific misconceptions vs. politics. |
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I really don't want a world were people can't buy a house because there is no FRB system to let the previous generation lend to the next generation at a profit.
I just bought a house precisely because the previous generation lent to me and my fiance at a profit.... but there were no banks involved. There is no need for FRB when you have a community. Instead, many people choose to live in a cutthroat world without neighbors and friends. No thanks. |
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What MNW proposes here is actually a very common practice among various interest groups, political parties etc.
This tactic was perfected by Israeli intelligence, who would organize anti-Palestinian, pro-Israel comment mobs using their Megaphone software.
These days, I suspect that many comments under political and economic articles on major sites are paid for as part of PR or Public Shaping campaigns. Not to mention the articles themselves.
You're describing "astroturfing" which is not at all what I proposed. Sorry for the confusion. What I'm referring to is that in a one-on-one debate in any forum, website, chatroom, there are usually 10+ detractors causing noise and spreading FUD to keep people from hearing the debate. The solution I believe is to bring in 10+ counter-detractors, kind of like being on someone in basketball. That person is responsible for engaging the troll until the troll is depleted of energy or lies to tell, while the real debate continues. I don't think there is anything unethical or immoral about it, and since we're not intending to influence but rather equalize, I don't think there's anything wrong with it in the slightest. I would bet the Israeli Intelligence sees what they do as the same. They are only standing up to those hate-spewing Palestinians... |
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If I was a Greek living in Greece I'd be buying up gold and silver right now. Bitcoins? My bet is 99% of the general population (ie. not geeks) don't know what bitcoin is, where it is bought and how it can be used to move money outside the country.
Yeah - but even if the 1% started buying Bitcoins - this would move the market. Bitcoins are still such a small market, despite being a global one. We are the 1%! |
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It could have been someone trying to tear down their 0.6% fee by just moving their own BTC around. What is the lowest fee tier on Gox?
That would be stupid. |
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I would guess there were multiple people involved... trading with yourself seems pretty pointless. But yeah, the walls were close for a while and no big volume came along to break it up.
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what makes you guys think the asked were pulled out and not sold off?
Denial. how to you account for 70,000 coins traded? none of it came from the ask wall, and the bid wall grew!  ah yes, this is what the bitcoin per launch sequence looks like  It's been a while, hasn't it. Vaguely familiar, but could it be possibly be real after these months of stability? |
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I'm sorry to squash your delusions, but what I am telling you is HOW THE SYSTEM ALREADY WORKS. Remember P2SH? Remember how NOT implementing it caused blocks to be rejected? That is because a MAJORITY of the miners changed their code to make it happen, and those that didn't lost out.
P2SH tightened the rules of what would be accepted. You are right that a majority can enforce this. If a majority wanted to loosen the rules, the more restrictive ruleset could continue on as a separate fork since the new transactions would be rejected by those miners who decided not to upgrade. |
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what makes you guys think the asked were pulled out and not sold off?
Denial. |
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Note that I don't mean Roth IRA vs Traditional IRA -- I've already decided Roth is better.
I mean Roth IRA vs Bitcoin.
What say you?
Right now I'm in both to diversify. The more time that passes, however, the more confidence I gain and the more % of my assets I move into Bitcoin. But I haven't cracked my IRA at all to buy BTC, but sometimes I wonder why I have it if the government may decide to confiscate it some day anyway ( hey, Argentina has done it, as well as many other countries that got into financial problems... )
You make over 6 figures? If you don't Roth is probably going to cost you money. Roth will only cost you less if you will have a very large IRA at retirement. I wouldn't even dream of putting a significant chunk of retirement monies into BTC. If BTC goes really mainstream, a few thousand USD into it now will turn into millions later. BTC has several risk factors that could take it to near zero... Your information on a Roth is wrong. The tax savings of a Roth has nothing to do with the account value or making over 6 figures. A Roth is highly beneficial to young professionals in the long term. The idea behind a Roth is that early on in a young person's career, that person will be making less money and his contributions to the Roth are taxed at a low rate. Once the person reaches the age for qualified distributions from the Roth, he will theoretically be taxed at a higher rate (having advanced in his career, making more money, putting him in a higher tax bracket). Since the distributions in a Roth IRA are tax free, the person has saved money by the contributions be taxed at the lower tax rate of the person's younger years. Bingo. |
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Bitcoin. Gold if you need a hedge. Forget about putting government money into government companies on government terms. Peak government is here, it's a bad time to buy in.
Meh, the vast majority of my Roth is in SPXU (3X short of S&P500) at the moment. Sure, I might never get the money back, but it sure is growing fast . |
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Note that I don't mean Roth IRA vs Traditional IRA -- I've already decided Roth is better.
I mean Roth IRA vs Bitcoin.
What say you?
Right now I'm in both to diversify. The more time that passes, however, the more confidence I gain and the more % of my assets I move into Bitcoin. But I haven't cracked my IRA at all to buy BTC, but sometimes I wonder why I have it if the government may decide to confiscate it some day anyway ( hey, Argentina has done it, as well as many other countries that got into financial problems... )
You make over 6 figures? If you don't Roth is probably going to cost you money. Roth will only cost you less if you will have a very large IRA at retirement. I wouldn't even dream of putting a significant chunk of retirement monies into BTC. If BTC goes really mainstream, a few thousand USD into it now will turn into millions later. BTC has several risk factors that could take it to near zero... I make 5 figures in a good year. How is it cheaper to pay taxes later on an IRA when I can pay 0 taxes and put my extra income in a Roth? |
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Spreadsheet has been updated to reflect all deposits to date. 700 BTC of availability remaining.
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Terms restructured, see OP.
So you're able to support an additional 980BTC deposit? Yes, I will keep the first post updated with current availability. |
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Hi all, I'm starting to think we are about to have a repeat of 2008 when pretty much everything collapsed and the USD shot up in the perceived flight to safety. If this does happen, what do you think will happen to the price of bitcoins? I assume they would plummet along with stocks, gold and silver, at least at first? I've been stacking gold and silver for a while now but I'm new to bitcoin so I'm trying to come up with a plan for my dry powder when the collapse comes (which is starting to look like any day/week now).
If we start moving quickly down in other markets, I wouldn't be terribly surprised by bitcoin taking a brief dip as well. I anticipate it will meet good support before it heads below $3, if it even makes it that low. Gold is usually the first to bottom, but bitcoin sometimes leads gold due to the 24/7 nature of it and the unrestricted access to trading info. |
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Sound money not being gold?
If we find a truly 'sound money' ,such as BTC , what value would gold have left? about 0.001 BTC/oz I'll take 1000 oz please. |
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Many people believe bitcoin's value will go up when the block reward halves. I think the better question should be, why should it go up just because the reward has halved? We saw last year that when difficulty was too high (ie. reward too low) that many miners stopped mining and difficulty readjusted itself. The higher difficulty did nothing to sustain the price, and likewise I postulate that a lower reward (the same as a higher difficulty) doesn't automatically translate to more USD$ per bitcoin.
Bitcoin is just as useful at $1/btc as it is at $10 or $100. It does the same job.
$1/BTC x 21,000,000 = $21,000,000 BTC economy $10/BTC x 21,000,000 = $210,000,000 BTC economy $100/BTC x 21,000,000 = $2,100,000,000 BTC economy. Clearly, BTC at $1 doesn't support a $2,100,000,000 BTC economy. You're neglecting time and the velocity of money. |
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Terms restructured, see OP.
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