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581  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Open Source Nuclear Fusion Research Fundraiser on: February 05, 2011, 08:26:30 PM
Hello BTC!

I have started a fundraiser for open source nuclear fusion research:


http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2011/02/04/bitcoin-fundraiser/

http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/


Receiving address is 1BJTpmaNyEbxb8MgDrq4rmLwwyNJFe1h1s


-Mark
Oh God. Hipsters playing with fusion. We're doomed. Have a bitcoin. Wink
582  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: A Heroin Store on: February 05, 2011, 06:32:14 AM
some sites bitcoins are worth .87 to buy but if you want to sell they're only worth 0.42-0.53 per USD if i understand correcly. if i'm selling say 1g of MDMA for $60 I'll get roughly 68 bitcoins judging by the daily rates on most sites. when i sell i only get back $30, not much of a profit margin while you're risking years of incarceration. it could be doable but then throw in exchanger fees and it's not worth it. unless i'm totally wrong (?)
You could always set your own exchange rate.
583  Other / Off-topic / Re: Egypt Achieves Anarchy! on: February 05, 2011, 06:26:47 AM
No, and for the same reasons a meteor hitting a bunch of priests doesn't result in "atheism".
However, the spontaneous organization and self management in Cairo's central square seems anarchistic, even if the protesters don't actually seek anarchy in Egypt.
584  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 05, 2011, 06:24:18 AM
I agree that some sort of money helps a lot as far as interacting with other communities.  It can be useful internally as well, or it can just complicate things.

As far as an Anarchist brewery in current society it would be advantageous to form relationships with other workers collectives to source hops and malt and so forth.  Hops are actually really easy to grow and could be incorporated with the brewery itself, barley takes a much larger amount of land, but would be a major expansion of operations and if there were a local agricultural collective that would make things easier.

As far as a housing collective the brewery would be taking in profits in sales that could be distributed to workers they'd have to buy food and clothes and all those fun things after all and as long as the collective is functioning as a part of a capitalist society they need to get those things from capitalist entities.

Forming relationships with other communities is always advantageous though, so, for example, if the agricultural collective that the brewery gets their barley from also grows food crops and perhaps chickens and such a relationship could be formed.  People in a housing collective are also likely to be working at cooperative ventures and there could be some sort of relationship between the whole, especcially if legal ownership is held by the housing collective rather than by an external landlord.  Taxes still need to be paid, but minimizing the interactions with the capitalist world is generally in the best interests of any collective.
Dairy farms can also make use of the spent grain from the brewing process. Cattle will eat it. The spent grain can also be fermented to produce methane fuel, or combined with peanut butter to make dog biscuits.

As for distribution of the brewery's profits, I would think that it would go according to the total amount that each worker will have invested. In addition to their labor, the original workers will have also had to acquire the building and equipment. It seems fair that they should receive more of the profits. Over time, as the brewery grows, the new workers' labor investments will grow larger than the original workers. I think the cooperative would also have to allow for outside investment. For example, if a builders collective builds the building which houses the brewery, their work would count as an investment entitling them to a decreasing share of the brewery's future profits. I don't think such an arrangement would qualify as unduly capitalistic because the profits get distributed according to real contributions. Furthermore, the workers could always refuse or undervalue investments that would otherwise reduce their shares to nothing.
585  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 04, 2011, 09:21:48 PM
Opposing anarchists tend to call each other "not a real anarchist", which tend to mean we have a non-debate and no attempt at understanding.
Anarcho-capitalism seems to have come about out of a misunderstanding of anarchism which opposes both the state and capitalism, although not necessarily markets. Think of it as listening to someone confuse tea with coffee: both hot, liquid, contain caffeine, and served in similar cups, but not the same. People understandably get frustrated when they ask for coffee and get tea. Anarcho-capitalists shouldn't take offense with the correction. In and of itself, it doesn't mean anarcho-capitalists hold an indefensible position, but rather one that simply doesn't qualify as an anarchistic.

I think we could.  It would have to interface with our current statist society, which would be a drain on resources, but there are breweries that are run as worker owned cooperatives (fishtail in Olympia WA is one example.)
The brewery workers would also have to deal with capitalistic suppliers and customers. I wonder if workers would pay less taxes if they filed as co-owners instead of employees.
586  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 04, 2011, 04:50:18 PM
... honest to god  ...
You seem to imply that God has some kind of authority over you. Contradiction? Wink
587  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 03, 2011, 02:50:34 AM
The property holders have no interest in simply holding their property because they still have to sustain it and themselves.
Nor do they necessarily have any interest in trading fairly. Desperate workers and tenants benefit employers and landlords most of all, as long as their discontent isn't so great as to provoke mutiny.

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue for one type of political theory or another. I'm just not convinced that anarcho-capitalism is anarchism. If I thought it was, I would have never created the thread. I doubt a brewery would function differently under anarcho-capitalist ideals than most do in our current society. How workers of a traditional anarchist persuasion might create, run, and make a living off of one interests me much more.

The Kid, any chance we get to read your thesis when you finish?  What is your major that you are writing the thesis for?

Also, the island thing has been done before: google "The Republic of Minerva".  However, if you let me join your island we won't suffer the same fate as I'll bring my friends and their arsenal of firearms.  Cheesy
Do your friends have a navy? In the tradition of individualist anarchism, I think, I don't really like the idea of revolution or snatching remote islands. Can't we just adopt anarchistic behavior, in whatever little ways we can, to slowly convince our neighbors and change our present society? What if I were to start a brewery that embodied anarchist ideals in our present society? Could it work?
588  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 02, 2011, 09:36:13 PM
But then how is anything enforced?
That question spurred my recent curiosity in anarchism. Apparently, an anarchist society would rely on voluntary cooperation instead of coercion.

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Coercion is fine as long as there is not a monopolistic power. That was the system used in the American Old west and it worked beautifully.
I won't argue that such systems don't work. However, that they qualify as anarchism contradicts what I've read on the subject.

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Employees are subject to their bosses until they decide they don't want to be. They can quit at any time. Same with renters/landlords. Free market at work.
What free person would ever choose to work in a sweatshop or as a sharecropper? It's hard for comfortable people to see it, but in subscribing to the anarchist point of view, capitalism is just a means of oppression. The property holders just have to wait for times of scarcity to bust out the prima nocta.

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Taking your analogy with private property to another subject, isn't communal property the basis of authoritarian communism, where one ruling power owns all the land "In the name of the people"?
Authoritarian communism is just state capitalism, wherein the state controls all the property, rationing it to the obedient and withholding it from the disobedient. If a state should not have this power, why should individuals or corporations?

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If someone wants to sell them self into slavery then let them. A person's property is theirs to do what they please with.
Fine, but the slave and his master are not anarchists.
589  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 02, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
In my opinion, and most anarchists' opinion (I presume), there is no entity that has a monopoly on coercive force in a true anarchistic society.
As I understand it, anarchists do not tolerate any use of coercion.

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Capitalism does not promote the subjugation of anyone by anyone else
Under capitalism, aren't employees subject to their bosses? Aren't renters subject to their landlords?

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In my opinion, anarcho-capitalism is far superior to anarcho-communism for some of the reasons you mention, but mostly that anarcho-communism rejects the idea of private property; a critical, basic freedom.
Isn't private property the basis of monarchy, wherein the king owns the kingdom and its inhabitants?

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The capitalists are slaves to the people, not the other way around.
Thank you Kiba! This is what I was failing to articulate  Grin
That anarchists would tolerate any kind of slavery seems counter-intuitive.
590  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 02, 2011, 05:33:01 PM
...No. That is incorrect.
But capitalist relationships are authoritative and require hierarchy, which anarchists reject.
591  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: February 02, 2011, 05:20:30 PM
Anarcho-capitalism...
Isn't that an oxymoron? Doesn't proper anarchism reject capitalism, insofar as capitalism promotes the subjugation of the poor by the rich?
592  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: A Heroin Store on: February 01, 2011, 04:38:28 AM
What an awesome thread!  You guys have a ton of great ideas.  Has anyone seen Silk Road yet?  It's kind of like an anonymous amazon.com.  I don't think they have heroin on there, but they are selling other stuff.  They basically use bitcoin and tor to broker anonymous transactions.  It's at http://tydgccykixpbu6uz.onion.  Those not familiar with Tor can go to silkroad420.wordpress.com for instructions on how to access the .onion site.

Let me know what you guys think
Cool. How do we know it's not a honey pot or just a rip off? Perhaps who ever runs it should reduce prices to attract customers and build its reputation.
593  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoins in space on: January 28, 2011, 02:21:23 AM
Actually, the vaccum sucks for cooling things.
Plenty of solar power though.
594  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoins in space on: January 28, 2011, 01:16:04 AM
Ok so bitcoin is Moon compliant.
Good quote or best quote?
595  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoins in space on: January 27, 2011, 06:44:58 PM
I suppose space pilgrims could also use a custom client that would ignore bitcoins generated after the communication delay got too long. They could continue to trade with the bitcoins they started with.

How long is too long, by the way?
596  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoins in space on: January 27, 2011, 06:14:13 PM
So, if a group of nodes separates from the rest of the network for at least ten minutes, bitcoins created after that point could become invalid. Vulnerability?
597  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoins in space on: January 27, 2011, 05:59:44 PM
Fed up with the state of the Earth, a group of people decide to build a space ship and find a new habitat among the stars. Due to weight constraints, they can't bring very much stuff. Luckily, bitcoins, weigh nothing. As their favorite earthly currency, they decide to bring it with them to their new home.

Assuming that they can find another habitable rock, get there without succumbing to the hazards of space travel, not trash said rock and annihilate themselves, and then reunite somehow with Earth, will the bitcoins they will have generated still work?
598  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Official DiabloMiner Thread on: January 27, 2011, 02:04:45 PM
I noticed a 15 Mhash/s boost with the latest binary on my Nvidia GTX460. Well done!
599  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: January 27, 2011, 04:57:49 AM
In coming to reject intellectual property laws, I found it helpful to imagine examples of life without them. Against Intellectual Monopoly, by Michele Boldrin and David K. Levine, really helped me out with that. However, I have trouble imagining life without coercion, the anarchist ideal.

I've heard folks explain that an anarchist society would depend on contracts, with protecting one's reputation as the incentive to honor one. But what's to stop someone from enforcing a contract with blackmail or violence?

Back in the brewery, what's to stop the new workers from not honoring the original owners' investment on the grounds that they presently use and occupy the brewery?
600  Other / Off-topic / The Anarchist Brewing Co. on: January 27, 2011, 03:23:49 AM
"The coercion-free beer for discerning anarchist!"

As a homebrewer, I understand beer. I do not completely understand anarchism though. If I can figure out how a brewery might function in an anarchist society I suppose I might learn some more about anarchism.

Apart from my own fascination with beer I would think that some aspects of a brewery might allow for some interesting discussion in the context of a hypothetical anarchy. For example, breweries require substantial amounts of grain, water, and hops. However, the inhabitants of said society would also desire grain and water, and farming hops also requires water and land that could otherwise produce grain. Breweries also generate lots of heat and require either fuel or electricity to do so. How would the society reconcile the competing demands for these resources without coercion, governmental or otherwise? Unless the population found itself particularly susceptible to alcoholism, I don't think the brewery could sell enough beer to significantly affect the prices of the resources I listed. Furthermore, if the resources became scarce, the demand for beer would decrease in the face of more pressing needs. Then again, in the absence of dependably safe drinking water, the society would come to view beer as a necessity. But, I digress.

I suspect that a brewery could function free of coercion if its workers had come together to build it and now own it as partners. But what if they sought to expand and bring on more workers? How might these new workers also come to own shares of the brewery and avoid mere wage labor? Would they simply own shares of each batch? How is that fair for the original owners, having already laid out the capital and effort to build the brewery? Would the newcomers have to buy in?

I guess I really want to know how anarchists expect to avoid economic coercion through wage labor. Bonus points if you can stick to the beer theme in your responses.

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