Apparently the same parts as you since you did not contend that a military company would be needed.

Any military = violence. Imagining that you will never ever need to stand against bad guys is childish and has not EVER happened in the history of the WORLD.

Even chimps fight wars, its nature. Just try to minimize it, don't kid yourself you can ignore it.

Who cares? The world is full of fools, what do you do against all the others who join them for the sweet tax paid paycheck or the adrenalin rush of being a soldier?

You criticize my solution, while admitting provide zero alternative while trying to push kiddy cartoon logic.

Sure I would love peace and I believe there are rational nice people in the world with whom that might work - but I also know that there are guys who get rape-boners when they see an unprotected plot of land.

First of all I know about the gold confiscation and the imprisonment of us japs. I also know the allies bombed civilians on purpose to slow nazi production under the guise of "de-housing".

All that shit is still better than Hitler who to their defense they were fighting.

I don't get why you are attacking my person and my knowledge, pretending you are so much more knowledgeable. Most of the "great wisdoms" you have cared to share are pretty darn well known to anyone who ever watched 10 min. of a BBC documentary.

Just because I don't mention something in my argument doesn't mean I don't know it or didn't account for it. And as for what I know I know freedom because I will accept nothing else - its a state of mind and a willingness to kick back once the iron bootheel comes down.

As for freedom vs. economy I believe the two are linked:
1. You will not have a good economy if you are oppressing your people to extreme degree. Even China had to open up.
2. More resources = more mouths fed. Dying "free" on the street isn't so great either.

Sure its not perfect, but its something.

Up until now minorities were also getting more and more rights in America, but now a reverse trend is starting to appear with excessive and increasing police brutality against blacks.

If the US was truly deeply corrupt all the way back in the 40ies or before as you claim then minority rights and the economy would not have been improving in many ways until maybe the 80/90ies.

Imperfection/non-utopia does NOT equal fascist dictator state.


Anyway unless you have something about the actual practicalities of my idea I don't want to argue with you anymore - I get that you are not interested.

Yes what great secret knowledge you hold there.

If thats your bone then use the algorithm I thought up to write a protocol for a government with hundreds of leaders making small decisions and where they are up for re-election every damn hour.

Its possible.

Why would your "military providing company" not take control and just impose the taxes it wanted?

At least with my protocol idea in that scenario you would have an instantly funded and organized resistance movement.

Well this just shows me how little you really know if you thought everything was still gravy back then.
[/quote]
I didn't say "gravy". You are making strawman arguments.

But the country was not collapsing in on itself like it is now. China will likely be the biggest economy over the US in few years and in real terms probably is now.

Every US politician is competing to sell out their country.

Whatever you thought of 70ies and back you have to admit things were not as bad as THAT.

I think you are confusing "THE American constitution" with "A future software protocol constitution".

There is no why, of course people try to exert their influence always! My solution makes the "how" much more difficult.

Given that you JUST made fun of the idea of 4 pieces of paper holding leaders responsible I find it weird you give no thought to software based alternatives.

Of course telling people on forums to "wake up" will surely stop the corrupt leadership, your solution is so brilliant.


As for when the US got corrupted I would say that since they helped defeat Hitler in the 40ies and went to the moon in 69/70ies things were holding up rather well until at least then.

Together with others I developed a (EDIT: theoretical) scalable swarm client.

1. Each client does part of the work and watches only a part of the chain.
2. Each node works like a full node in that it trusts no one and it does verification.
3. The swarm network would be able to communicate with the normal BTC network, no fork needed.
4. To avoid security problems the swarm nodes would use public keys to communicate over instead of hijackable IPs. Avoids the isolation attack I think the regular client was also susceptible to before the recent fix.

Its slightly complicated, but it would scale infinitely and require zero trusted super nodes. Fees would also be near zero. Smartphones could run a full node like swarm node.

No one has found a flaw behind it yet... except that "it's hard to program"... I kid you not.

Try to imagine Obama or another president actually in public saying: "Lets change that whole constitution thingie in my favor".
Even with all his money from the banks and media propaganda that would be an near impossible political fight.

The other road would be to change the way taxes are collected to a more normal way, however this would entail creating a completely new division of government and then convincing people that they should stop using their constitutional protocol.

Slightly easier, but still pretty hard.

Keep in mind that the system doesn't start out corrupted (or it wouldn't live a day) so a leader or bribe happy bank would have to:
1. Take control over one or multiple government instances; military, police, judges AND the leader.
2. Take control of the media.
3. Push the populace to abandon the constitution.
4. They would now control the government, but as BTC are used they still can't print money so the payback is limited/political consequences to taking from the taxes as it's more noticeable than inflation.
5. They convince people to abandon BTC for something they can print.

Until you do ALL FIVE steps you will see almost nothing in return on your investment - zilch.
What are these steps with the US?
1. Buy pres.
2. Buy media.
3. Buy/infiltrate FED board.
4. Done.

You also get payoff at step 1 instead of step 4. Notice the difference?

So yes it's VERY much a question of "how to do it practically", not why. You "could" also convince the majority of BTC users to switch to my alt chain that gives me 10% of all fees - but practically that would never effing happen.

Keep in mind it took the US about 200 years to get corrupted from start to finish, so with my protocol and BTC for national currency you could have a very long lasting stable wealthy society.

Yes.. but according to your idea after this you throw away all records/transactions - so when you try to use the same money again at a different snickers store the same 50 nodes won't remember you have no money or maybe its 50 new ones.

So the store manager is cheated.


The whole point of the blockchain/BTC is to prevent this. Without saving all the linked transactions linked ultimately to the header, the headers are pointless.

How would your node not just say you sent/did not send it to all 50?

No offense, but it seems to me you need to go read the wiki or some FAQ.

Each conversion costs a fee, even if to other crypto currency as the sellers try to hedge their risk. (Buy/sell rates are never the same = a cost).

In other words the real value added is cutting out the middlemen increasingly more.

Once the process is completed all those fancy banker buildings, cars and their hot mistresses will be up for grabs.

Tits for everyone! Value explained?

Noun
tax (countable and uncountable; plural taxes)
Money paid to the government other than for transaction-specific goods and services.
-wiktionary

So in other words if you have a government with police/military authority and you are paying something to them - that something is a tax.

Non-specific is the key here where most "fees" pay for "bank", "health insurance" or similar.

However you can call it a fee if you want; not really the point here.

1. Every citizen runs a client, similar in ways to the BTC client.
2. That client helps maintain a distributed DB (blockchain) over who should get taxes.
3. Different client users might have different powers as agreed upon with that protocol.
4. "Power" here would be the ability to change a government divisions proportional income from of the total tax income.
5. Such power holders could be "judges" or "presidents" that you vote on via YOUR client.
6. Any breach of protocol would be impossible just like with BTC - you would simply be creating a fork.
7. The DB tells your client that say "police" should get 10% of the budget.
8. Your client is used to pay the tax according to this public data.
9. If you pay 11% or 9% to the police it is not accepted and your public key = person number will not have a tax registered.

So in a system like that how can a president stay in power after being voted out?

Sure he could continue CALLING himself president, but all the flowing tax revenue would now flow to the new guy who would consequently come to hold power even if the old guy resisted a while.

Thus protocol/constitution is unbreakable.
EDIT: Or at least you would have to force a majority of the country to change habits etc. to do it.

I have written some 80 pages on this idea/subject already if you want a copy.

I think we are in for bad times maybe two decades - until renewable energy is ramped up enough to offset soon-to-be dwindling energy.

Global warming will also flood a bunch of cities.


But yeah the elite can pretty much print money until infinity. The middle class will pay.

However if TOO much money/bailouts are given out the corrupt governments might well see a hyperinflation bomb go off. Heck BTC could play a nice role there.


Imagine this:
1. Lets say EUR/USD inflation hits 10% so normal-ish people start to catch on.
2. Money is moved to ALL sorts of perceived safe havens, yuan, gold, silver, german bonds AND btc.
3. The elite can't turn off the printing press because they forgot how to spend within their means and are idiots.
4. USD/EUR inflation escalates further, goto step 1.
5. China becomes a super power and yuan/BTC becomes known as a safe haven along with gold.
6. BTC wins, yuan and others may stay strong a long time too though.

There is NOTHING backing fiat, in fact its the opposite; plenty of capital controls and inflation abound. The second there is a mob mentality too flee fiat and BTC stands strong? Game over. Time bomb for the EU/US I tell you!

BTC is not only a safe haven, its probably the safe haven that is the EASIEST to get into. That is a sick advantage in panic times.

That's not the issue, the issue is that these super centers could become the only ones capable of running a full client.

With no one else doing ANY checks they could increase the block reward, delete any information your coins ever existed or raise the fees through the roof - name it.

Decentralization is better, its the whole damn selling point of BTC. P2P crypto currency.


How many super centers would there be? 10-100? 1000? Anything below 100 and the operators could agree on things you (users) don't like. Below 10 and the government shuts down BTC.


Maybe its not needed now, but the swarm clients time will come.

EDIT: Btw anyone want to pledge towards this project? I already pledged 15BTC. All your BTC will be worth zilch if this thing isn't done at some point

Lets all be honest: any news is good news... its been boring lately

I shall enjoy laughing in my head at this attack piece, make more!

I disagree:

A fee usually is accompanied by a specific benefit or service.

A TAX is paid to a government that may help others, but not YOU. If they DO help you that help is often diverse and not specific to just one service.

Its nitpicking, but I think it makes sense that people would pay a voluntary tax to government they believed in.


Whether the tax is entirely voluntary or collected as today I think my idea would improve governments by making it at least harder for them to break the constitution.

Voter fraud for instance would be made impossible and you could have elections every day if you wanted to. Put together that would make it near impossible to buy elections once/twice and then rob the country four-eight years in a row.

Lol, my parents never hit me, drank, took drugs or left me alone long... but suddenly I feel like they did a slightly bad job for not teaching me about the world earlier

I will make sure to teach mine a few things, not just BTC of course.

In defense of the screen keyboard: Maplestory is played by pretty young kids - if they can do it, surely an un-demented grandmother could.

I think if you have a bad government spending unwisely it matters little HOW they get their taxes.

With this system taxes would have to be voluntary, however if you had not paid you would be charged for everything you used in the public sphere even the roads.

With all taxes voluntary the government actually has to care.

@Gavin

BTW could the way passwords are punched in on the main client to unlock wallets be changed?

What I am thinking about is an on screen keyboard with these features:
1. Keys are shuffled each press.
2. Screen-keyboard window is placed randomly on screen.
(Saw it back when I played MapleStory - never in my online bank  )

That way future BTC key loggers will be out of luck.

The past 11 years I have been interested in leadership.

I'm about to hand in my bachelors project which is a program framework for expressing the distribution rules of an organization. Basically to avoid corruption you let a program "hold the bag".

That is pretty cool and my program is awesome. However it runs on a normal server so any attempt to control a corrupt elite also in control of said server would fail.

EDIT: Thread on framework that is combined with concepts from BTC here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84505.msg935674#msg935674


Then today I think I finally found a way to make it perfect.

The key was leaving out storage!

Some explanation is due:
1. A protocol defines the rules of an organization.
2. The database of my project is turned into a blockchain type database.
3. People pay "taxes"/membership fees to the organization.
4. The taxes are immediately sent to the address specified in the org chain database.
5. All DB changing actions by users are signed/authorized using their key.

If you try to change the rules your block will not become part of the chain.
Since the chain does not store any value it can be made public without anyone emptying the "treasury".

Taxes would be paid with bitcoin.

Citizens who paid their tax would be able to identify themselves using their public/private key when applying for health care/school/other.


If this is possible it will be big. People will be able to organize themselves without fear that the politicians can break their constitution. Even the libertarians here should like that.

I myself believe strongly in government, but only when it is good government. I have seen what people can accomplish together and that is why governments are needed I think - joint investments beyond even companies.

After some quick thinking I believe my framework ideas can also be reused so that not every organization would need to be programmed from scratch.

Its fine if you don't get what I'm talking about I just got excited and had to tell someone. It's going to be a bitch to program this though...

When I thought about buying silver I found a kilo gram bar of it on something akin to ebay, but for my country.

Out of 1000$ value I would have had to pay 20-40$ over spot = tops 4%.

That's about what you pay moving fiat into BTC anyway

Very nice simple way of doing it for small amounts.

But miners have running costs and are spending their time on it. Unless they are hobbyists or have loads of savings to burn on this particular kind of BTC "buying" they would have to sell at some point.

Assuming that the big miners are semi-professionals and thus depend on BTC income is not that unreasonable.

The other major sellers would be BTC millionaires slowly living off their BTC treasure, I am guessing this flow is of minor volume.


Another part of my theory/prediction is the "least resistance"-idea: BTC would tend to flow to those who believe in the idea and are saving it.

Thus larger and larger amounts of BTC get "locked up" in savings accounts.

However new BTC, mined coins, statistically should be more likely to be in the hands of sell-minded people and will thus set the price.


Speculators may sell, but their money is likely still at mtgox and they will usually buy back in at some point so at the end of the day they are simply "buyers".

Only once normal BTC holders/believers also become spenders in a greater BTC economy will all these dynamics change.