@AMT
I understand that you were throwing out some ideas to get a feel for what people might find acceptable, but now the professional approach would be to choose which are most viable, then get out your list and your email machine, and starting at the top (lowest unfulfilled order # ) send out a n email with a detailed description of options and what each one will entail so you can get back on track and get this show on the road in the fairest possible manner.
I don't think a public forum is the place to book peoples preferences as I know of at least one customer in the upper 600's who doesn't fallow this forum and has not received any kind of response to his 3 non-harassing phone messages, left over the last several months.
if you don't plan on compensating people who have waited the longest with extra hash power at least make them your top #1 priority.
Thanks
This is a fair point. But again the simplest thing would be to just get third party miners as suggested. FYI good job for all keeping things civil. There are certain people who I will name publicly (clenell) who hate that we are having a civil discussion. He keeps pming me and apparently others about how we are "sucking AMT's dick" Mostly referring to me really. I do happen to think having a civil discussion is necessary to get results. And AMT has been more forthcoming because of it. Hopefully now tho we get actual tangible results from it. Ditto all around. As for clenell, considering he is lawyered up already he should ask them about guidance regarding the laws against cyber harassment... A 'difference of opinion' and 'Freedom of Speech' is one thing - continued targeted harassment of people over it is a whole 'nother matter and in most locations is a civil offense. Report him to the Forum Admin at least. |
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Hello everyone,
I just noticed something very very interesting. On the AMT website, there are new, more in detail pictures of the lower power miners.
1. How could they possibly sell any of these for such a high price?
2. Why would they want to try to sell more of them if no one will buy them???
3. Does this mean that they're trying to make themselves look more professional?
4. Coincraft chip page is also updated and moved to the front of the list. Maybe they want to sell out all of the chips?
What do you guys think?
Also to AMT-
If you hadn't received my last message I will go with option 1. Please confirm. Thanks. (Order #1275)
That is the same page they have had up for months. here is a wayback from a week ago http://web.archive.org/web/20140501001729/https://advancedminers.com/ , was the same when I ordered in late Feb as well. Yes the prices on it are insane but have not changed on the smaller ones in months. |
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Snippet from SirMines everyones elses business, "THEY ARENT EVEN REGISTERED AS A U.S BUSINESS! They've been using Advanced Mining Technology's name, which is an actual mining company (other business) founded in the 80's. "
They are registered in Delaware: File Number: 5341525 Incorporation Date / Formation Date: 05/29/2013
There are several companies using the name Advanced Mining Technologies shown on a quick search, one in Australia, one in India and one in Canada as well as the one in PA. So what? As long as the 1st entity to claim the name doesn't bitch is all perfectly legal.
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Is there any evidence of a 1.2THs working that is stable?
I know only of a 520 GHs system working reliably.
Bitmine will only sell systems that is below 800 GHs.
There is no evidence at this time of an AMT system that runs reliably at 1.2THs.
I am guessing that the A1 chip for now at least needs to be ran at lower speed for best stability/life. Ergo BMch's only selling 800's. Also note that the Dragon is also sold as 1-1.2TH implying they prefer the slow rate. Well, then maybe they need to bump up the # of chips per board if possible or add another blade. Say maybe 10 per-board vs 8. Hmm, wonder how that balances the GH/W figure? Maybe you can't build such a system without requiring a power draw the exceeds most residential wiring. Well, yes we *are* talking about the max per standard 110v plug/circuit... They need to emphasize that in a home setting these are what would be classified as a large appliance as far as power draw goes. Preferably use a 220v circuit like one has to if they say, buy a welder. Just how it goes. |
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Is there any evidence of a 1.2THs working that is stable?
I know only of a 520 GHs system working reliably.
Bitmine will only sell systems that is below 800 GHs.
There is no evidence at this time of an AMT system that runs reliably at 1.2THs.
I am guessing that the A1 chip for now at least needs to be ran at lower speed for best stability/life. Ergo BMch's only selling 800's. Also note that the Dragon is also sold as 1-1.2TH implying they prefer the slow rate. Well, then maybe they need to bump up the # of chips per board if possible or add another blade. Say maybe 10 per-board vs 8. Hmm, wonder how that balances the GH/W figure? |
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The pool selection point would be my concern as well. I very very much like the one I use and throwing extra horsepower at it be it hosted or my own would be marvelous...
Still prefer a miner of my own though.
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greases fine for the back side only. Top side should have a gap filler eg Fujipoly's sarcon line or again Berquist Blue to actually embed the chip so ya pull heat from every sq micron of area ya can.
Actuallly, that dynatron setup looks pretty good, only concern would be the fan life, Tip: what kind of bearing used in the fan? Sleeve bearings do not like vertical applications and give like 1/2 or less of 'rated life' when ran vertical. Look for rifled or ball bearing.
That's a ball bearing blower i believe. But the setup is a pricy, like $50 per, and we dont know about the lifespan yet either, we've had it running for a day so we want be a bit more sure than that before we decide to move on 2k dynatron sinks. One thing we've learned from Martins stuff is that if you use it a delivered you can usually get 3-6 months out of it without altering it. Also the board/program are always set to overclock, so under-clocking out of safety would be needed as well. Hmm. the only thing I don't see at the dynatron site eg http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/product_detail_1.aspx?cv=1-4-216&id=94&in=0 is the thermal ratings... As in thermal resistance at least so you can figure out the temps vs power in. Look at Wakefield for example http://www.wakefield-vette.com/products/forced-convection.aspx complete specs so you can get a handle on chip temps vs sink size vs cfm of air needed instead of just testing what looks good.... Um poking around that Wakefield site, at these power levels you really should look at their liquid cooling ideas http://www.wakefield-vette.com/products/liquid-cooling/liquid-cold-plates.aspx That would allow a very very compact THS-dense processor package and allow moving the radiator/fans(s) to wherever the PSU bank is... Look Koolance or frozen cpu for dripless fluid connectors to use between the boards and cooling loop Just a thought considering multi-TH miners are multi-kw... |
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greases fine for the back side only. Top side should have a gap filler eg Fujipoly's sarcon line or again Berquist Blue to actually embed the chip so ya pull heat from every sq micron of area ya can.
Actuallly, that dynatron setup looks pretty good, only concern would be the fan life, Tip: what kind of bearing used in the fan? Sleeve bearings do not like vertical applications and give like 1/2 or less of 'rated life' when ran vertical. Look for rifled or ball bearings because the last thing folks running farms are going to want to do is replace a heap'o fans every couple k hours (a few months running 24x7).
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AMT: on Option-1, what would us with just the 520 ordered be getting?
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Interesting... found this in Bitmine forum: <pic snipped to save space> Notice how much bigger the heat sink is on this. Also, the customer claims that the unit blew up because the heat sink fell off. Apparently those heat sinks are very important. No wonder both Technobit and Dragon have huge heatsinks on the side of the chip. can I just cry at the ineptitude there... Bigger heat sinks good start. Still relying on thermal tape to hod the weight in a most likely vertical orientation. bzzzzt... Could have at least provided a bolt or 2 so gravity doesn't do it's thing when the heat is on. btw, most TT is rated to around 350C (but loses strength long before that) so that got pretty damn hot to be showing damage. Again, the Technobit pic of their hex miner shows Bergquist Blue thermal gap material encasing the top side of the chips/board area. http://technobit.eu/index.php?id_product=63&controller=product&id_lang=1 Also make s very fine gripper of the heatsink once it cures in 12hrs. the 4 bolts holding the fan certainly help as well... |
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No psu is fine as I am really liking my HP server ones from Amazon  Then I guess the biggest elephant in the room remaining is - time until shipping the Klondike-style option? |
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As unprofessional as this one is about to be, we'd like to get some opinions from the community because the majority of you seem to understand our situation to a degree.
<big snip>
In most cases these hypothetical options would apply to all customers as a choice. (Again we'd just like to get our client's reactions and what may seem satisfactory)
1. Receive your miner immediately - with a 1.2hash rate or maybe a bit more. Immediately being end of this week.
2. Receive a different design - which is based on individual smaller miners, not in a case per-say, but similar to a Klondike model instead. Again for the hash rate at the time of purchase.
3.Transfer to hosting - order's/miner's to hosted option with a 20% increase, electric being billed monthly or deducted from earning, which would be again be a somewhat immediate (week or so) delivery.
4. Opt in payback. For a 6 month payback program if your order is for 2 miners or less. 12 months if your order is for 3 miners or more. Receiving a check each month for the fractionated amount in suggestion or btc each month for the amount of btc you paid.
5. Receive chips + 10. ie - if your miner was a 1.2th you would receive 50 A1 chips. <- we don't expect many to choose that one and if several do then it may counter previous options.
6. Trade in for script. - If we launched sales of a 10-11k script miner with a 70m hash rate with a 7 day delivery, your orders monetary credit would be applied to that from a price point perspective. With the choice to hold that option as the price decreases in time of course.
1st, +1 to ya. To me it's the most professional thing you have presented to us here. Kudos! As to the the Klondike reference in option-2, package(s) you mean like http://klondikeminer.com/index.php?cid=2 ? Considering I'm running an Ant s1 pharm any similar package would fit in just fine. You know the S1 design, basically 2 self supporting boards/heatsinks bolted to endplates with fans. Simple & mechanically rugged. Packs very well for shipping. Stacks well on rack shelves. Works for me. Biggest question obviously is <drum roll please> What would be the ship date for my equivalent 520GH or more package(s)? The whole idea shown in the Klondike site? eg, a Raspi, router, cables, etc? To me the idea rank best to worst is: 2 1 & 3 tied, can we be sure of the miners working? 4 5,6 (tied) |
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I 2nd the motion to never pre-order. That said, random hardware thought regarding the mess over the A1, BFL's new chip, Hashfast's Golden Nonce and the others... In all the forum bits I read on them nowhere is it mentioned that test or engineering sample chips were expressly produced. It is all "We finally have chips! <insert pic of a wafer in hands> Now we have to make them work..." Ehem, Why? It is common practice to produce several design verification /engineering sample chips as part of another high volume chips wafer. When needed it is childsplay to set aside the needed area on the wafers and slip in the needed mask. The only reason not to do that is that yes it does 'cost extra' coupled with utter blind faith in the chip as 1st-designed. The ASICS being a stacked chip is irrelevant, just means more work (cost). I take it that did not happen. If Bitmine/Innosilicon, BFL and others had even made a couple dozen chips to play with and see what they really have before taking orders the mining world would be a much happier place... I do hope that the miner industry has learned from all this (though this is BFL's 2nd go at it and same results as their 65nm chip)  |
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+2 fer ya then!
Newark/Farnell and RS electronics are 2 others I sorcee from.
Night all.
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To AMT_Miners re: component shortages
Just be very very careful about picking 2nd/3rd sources for them! There is a reason there are so few prime component sources - quality and proven performance. Contrary to seemingly popular belief (at least among purchasing agents) any given component is NOT just like any other similar one from a different maker.
Properly vetted vendors of the components are to be respected and please avoid the grey-market at all costs. Counterfeit components are rife.
There may be components from 'other' sources that do the same thing but they are not necessarily really up to the task without heavy de-rating.
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^^ Gird thy loins and read through this thread from the start...
Just for the record, Order number?
Oh believe me I've read both threads...i just figured it cant hurt to try, something is better than nothing. My orders are in the low 1500's , though when i placed them i was promised specific ship dates as i was using these boxes as samples for a larger order i intended to place once i evaluated them. Right now, for me and my budget Ants are the only real game in town (got 9 of them). They are hungrier and take up more room per-TH but they can be in-hand in days either direct from China or from many different resellers. Currently around $2400-2500/TH be they S1 or S2's. |
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^^ Gird thy loins and read through this thread from the start...
Just for the record, Order number?
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+1 & agree on all points there.
The shitstorm that hit Bitmine/AMT, BFL & others was the idea of pre-orders. They thought they understood the semiconductor product dev cycle and were wildly over optimistic about how long it really takes or what the results can be.
#1 rule: You/your investors pay 100% for the development through the 1st spin/batch. Not just give enough to the designers/foundries to get the ball rolling and then rely on pre-order sales of an entirely unproven-in-the real-world product to finance the rest of the process. Specific to the BTC mining chips, if you have institutional-sized folks interested then they need to cough up the R&D funds as that is what it is at that point.
Just how fast the first chips are actually ran depends largely on your relationship with the foundry. They have long-term commitments to meet and they come first. Period. Pretty sure that is part of the problem Bitmine/Innosilicon, BFL, and other ASIC makers have had with GF or other foundries. It is rarely 1-st come 1st served unless you have one huge wallet.
If you are very very lucky with all the planets in alignment the 1st spin will show promise as at least engineering samples. Probably even be salable to a point. Then and only then do you start the marketing ball rolling! Only then will you actually have an idea of real/possible performance vs just models. Sometimes ya win, most just kinda do and punt. Point is you now at least have a real product or at worst an idea of what is needed to refine the design.
Just my opinion from being part of the equipment design/supply side of the the biz for over 30 years... I've lived and breathed the entire cycles from *our* customers customers 1st asking "what can be done to make this..." to applying 6-sigma because they are now making 10's of millions of the chips a month.
That said, gotta be a market for the chips. Heck folks still sell ones for BFL's Jalapenos. But... until something from AMT shows up you need to hang onto them.
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So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  According to Charlie Shrem, several govt agencies are monitoring here. Govt and law enforcement has hired people specifically for the task of monitoring these forums, reddit, and the IRC chat. Hi you guys! Now that must be a sweet job... just surf Forums all day looking for rabble-rousers  |
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<snip> So do ours.  Cool. Considering I am one of those who signed up for the DIY kit I'll take 3 of those - WITH the heatsinks/fans of course - and be happy to call my order fulfilled. I even have a Raspi if needed to feed the USB port the boards use. Don't need a PSU as I have several that will work fine. Yes, it'll be an option as well. Most excellent. Don't even need a cage either. I have several unused 4 & 5U high 19" rack cases that will work marvelously for them. |
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