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The bet page said that funds were received in time. It said: "Sent 5.384 BTC from 1QDRDaVZ2oXfXXWbkf98ebcfT9y2x8LZHN" 2 hours before the match. I checked. The date on the blockchain.info site is wrong... But i understand the problem. Still have no confirmation for this transaction! So you need 1 confirmation before match starts?
So better pay a small fee next time one bets on your site, right?
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http://www.bitcoinsports.eu/bet/72f9a?destination=bet-slip@Bit365 - why was my bet cancelled? It said bet accepted and 5.384 BTC received earlier. Now it says cancelled? Confirmation took a while but I sent the bitcoins in time. Status: 0/unconfirmed Date: 07.11.2013 10:10 To: 1E67jR6bvbkcHEMhmDPqJcEaiTsscGtX7b Debit: -5.384 BTC Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC Net amount: -5.3841 BTC Transaction ID: a9cbbaa4341f0eae9d2c6d86b6d60032c81e93dcb262aec14ad5232715cc0f16
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Hey, I made a transaction of 5.384 BTC with 0.0001 fee included more than 4 hrs ago. from 1QDRDaVZ2oXfXXWbkf98ebcfT9y2x8LZHN to Status: 0/unbestätigt, über 8 Knoten übertragen Datum: 07.11.2013 10:10 An: 1E67jR6bvbkcHEMhmDPqJcEaiTsscGtX7b Belastung: -5.384 BTC Transaktionsgebühr: -0.0001 BTC Nettobetrag: -5.3841 BTC Transaktions-ID: a9cbbaa4341f0eae9d2c6d86b6d60032c81e93dcb262aec14ad5232715cc0f16 The Receiver already confirmed the transaction. Just out of curiosity: Why is that taking so long? Normally it only takes seconds even for non-fee transactions without confirmation to appear on Blockchain.info https://blockchain.info/address/1E67jR6bvbkcHEMhmDPqJcEaiTsscGtX7b
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I hope all the people here advocating a blacklist are trolling. Its probably telling how ineffective a blacklist will be because none of the core developers have bothered to post a serious reply.
Bitcoin works because we trust the math and the network, once we add a blacklist we now have to trust people again. Angelamerkel, you keep saying we should not push our ideals onto you, however it is really you pushing your ideals onto us. We got involved with Bitcoin based on Satoshi's principles and the core feature is a network based on math and not having to trust people.
Your blacklist is actually against what Satoshi wanted and thus it is anti-bitcoin. I understand you want lots of power to block payments similar to paypal, so I suggest you create a clone of Bitcoin and set it up so that you can satisfy your ideals.
This is DPR's fault for giving over his coins or having a stupid weak password or allowing a keylogger onto his machine. Lets face the facts, DPR screwed up big time, he is so screwed. I wonder what his wallet password to $28 million was? Couldn't have been too difficult.
Also Bitcoins are not actually coins, did you know via taint analysis 98% of all Bitcoin users have a trace of the 10,000 bitcoin pizza transaction? Bitcoins are just numbers and if you blacklist a set amount of coins eventually they will spread all over the network (see via taint analysis how coins dilute into one another)
The blacklist would only work if 51% of the network agreed, and then we have paypalcoin.
Angelamerkel, we are forcing our views because the ideals you are against are the reason most of us got into Bitcoin, you don't want Bitcoin, you want paypalcoin.
Grab the Bitcoin source, add the blacklist system and announce it over in the alt-coin section. Cheers.
1. I don't WANT any of this. I'm saying, Bitcoin might fail to become widely accepted without some kind of supervision. As I pointed out, there might be criminals who will use the power of Bitcoin to bring harm upon others. Until now Bitcoin does just fine - and also the DPR case doesnt change that as you pointed out and there is no reason to use any kind of black/whitelists so far. We will see how it develops. I'm just afraid criminals could do perfect crimes with Bitcoin. I hope I'll be proven wrong... 2. Anyway a blacklist / whitelist can be quickly implemented when it is really needed some point in the future (I hope never). If the private Key & pw was extracted by torture for example I would def. argue that this is the right time to start with a blacklisting...
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And when someone decides to force your assets onto the blacklist in retaliation, or some other perceived slight? Who will be the one providing oversight? And how will we trust them? Will it be a cabal of the 1% of Bitcoin owners? A coalition of government organizations? And what recourse will you have once someone declares your wallet full of fraudulent funds? What happens if the judgment of whatever "authority" deems your appeal invalid and your funds remain forever black-marked?
Like i said, i guess there will be very few independent agencies who will take care of the blacklist. Trust and reputation has to grow over the years I'm afraid. And yes if a member of this agency decides to screw you over, you can do nothing about it. But it will be very unlikely that you will be affected by such a corruption. As soon as the corruption spreads and public becomes aware of it, people will start using another agency. You basically can ask all the same questions about the legal system in the real world. And like in all societies, also libertarian ones, it holds true: Most people are willing to pay that small price (of possible corruption) to have a working legal system (forced right now in the real world or unforced in libertarian & Bitcoin society) that takes care of the bad guys. Another thought: We now have market participants, we have a currency, we have goods being traded and we now need a legal system around it, because the current real world legal system is unable to cope with problems that may occur. As market participants are unable to track down and bitcoins can be easily laundered the only way for the real world legal system to cope with bitcoin-criminals is to shut down Bitcoin completely. I'm really afraid, what will happen, if first criminals discover Bitcoin and all the possibilites around it we can't even think of right now... The first criminal, who stole 144K coins and will probably use parts of it to kill civilians in just another innocent country, just recently entered the market :-)
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No need for physical force, if i'm able to corrupt the system based on the rules of the system.
How do people get added to the blacklist? I assume someone has to do so manually? And how is a consensus reached? Votes? Do people have to register their real life identities in order to vote? Or do they just vote by registering?
It's way too easy to game this system. No need for physical violence or threat thereof. You simply threaten to make someones coin horde unspendable. Either by having lots of people register to vote you onto the blacklist (i assume that it would be done via email address or, worst, cell phone number), both are very easy to come by.
Explain precisely how do you stop this?
I guess there will be very few security agencies, who people will report crimes to and who will look into the cases. People can subscribe to one of these agencies if they trust their judgement. Maybe there will be only one really big agency. But I don't see any room for corruption as blacklisting is not permanent and people can easily switch agencies.
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Then we should blacklist every coin that's ever been stolen via keystroke logger, Trojan, account hack, or anything else nefarious. Except that could do away with far more coins than the FBI got.
Or, you don't like a world with violence and cohersion? What are you options when you buy coins from me (or I otherwise find out your address) and send you an email - give me 10% of your total BTC holdings or else me and my entire syndicate will add your coins to the blacklist? What can you possibly do? Sure, I dint have a syndicate currently, but if you allow for blacklisting, you'd better believe syndicates will pop up all over.
Think things through. To the logical final conclusion. It's not as cut and dried as you'd like.
That sounds more and more like a private Bitcoin police. It might sound strange, but I like the idea because unlike in the real world people can and will easily opt out if they become corrupt. The thing with the syndicate dominating everything is a myth. Monopolies only work with physical force or the threat of the same.
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People use Bitcoin because cryptography controls there money. The advantage of Bitcoin is that nobody can take away your properly secured money except through coercion. Getting rid of this fundamental part of Bitcoin has devastating effects on what Bitcoin stands for.
Again, who are you to force your fundamentals upon others. There should be a client with blacklist option and the people are the only ones to decide whether they want to leave their black list blank or not. I would add the FBI and noone else.... Another important point: Ross Ulbricht was one of the good guys. Sooner or Later the really bad guys will discover Bitcoin: blackmailer, hitmen, trafficker, "real" terrorists. Only a few of these guys could pose a serious threat towards Bitcoin. A working blacklist system could prevent certain problems that the current cash money system inherits. What do you intend to do if bad guys starting kidnapping children from rich guys to extort huge amouts of bitcoin?
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How did they obtain the password? A deal? Torture? These 144K Bitcoins will be sold eventually. Thought it would have a bigger effect on the price? Or was that already expected?
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I vote for neutrality, but adding a blacklist to a client would not be difficult at all. Keep in mind that a blacklist would be mostly ineffective because it would be relatively easy to circumvent. [/quote]
How would you circumvent that? The Blacklist will be handed over as parameter to the Client when it starts and only the original Address is needed while all others can be calculated. If the FBI sends 100 BTC to a wallet that already contains 100 BTC and that wallet spends a total of 110 BTC, I would automatically mark the last 10 BTC spent as black Coins.
The blacklist could be left empty or automatically updated via open market strict or less strict "central" address lists, whatever the user prefers. It would only make sense to add addresses which still contain the Bitoins and which are about to stay there for a while untill most clients have updated their black list.
In the end it only works out, when enough people participate. Not sure that will be the case...
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"Bitcoin needs to follow the rules of the Bitcoin network protocol for everyone, without exceptions. Otherwise it's no different than a centrally controlled currency."
I'm really sad to read that you guys want to force your values and norms on others. The opposite is true: Forced neutrality is almost as bad as centrally controlled currency.
I'd like to download and use a Bitcoin client that displays blacklisted Coins separately. Any other wallet that receives blacklisted Bitcoins will also be blacklisted if it spends more blacklisted bitcoins than it receives. It shouldn't be so hard to code, should it? Am i missing something here?
I believe no core developer or anyone should tell anyone if Bitcoin should be neutral or anything. The people should decide whether they want to use the Blacklist-Client or the original. I'm willing to donate BTCs for the first coder to provide a Client with a Blacklist option.
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There been plenty of scam sites who had more customers. Sbrzol was a winning customer, who was endangering their business. They just should have written a kind email to him that he is no longer welcomed. Instead they thought they can take additional 30BTC in the process from that "bastard" (that's how winning customers are seen in these circles). Bitcoinlivebets made a huge mistake here. Now there is no way back. So i can repeat: Scam site. There are better ones out there, who also have much better odds: www.bitbook.biz, nitrogensports.com
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Hey nitrogensports,
all your lines are stuck! Not updated in hours.
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Still waiting for refund of my 10 BTC since >48 hrs! Update: Got it. Thx!
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Thx I really freaked out and will wait next time. But all my transaction took less than 5 secs to appear so far....
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Hi,
damn. I think i just lost 4 BTC. I thought i own this address
***
Yesterday I sent 10BTC from this address to **.
Today i just cashed out 3.935 BTC to this address but it doesn't appear in my wallet!
Wallet is synchronized but the balance is still unchanged.
Is there any way to retrieve the 3.935 BTCs? Dont really get what I did wrong? Thx for help.
I use the normal BTC QT client 0.85
I have 4 receiving address listed under Tab Receive
***
There are many services that return funds only to the sender's address.
All resolved.... Now it's in my wallet! Strange. Normally it takes only seconds....
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Love this site! My favorite place to bet. Customer Service is superb! Even withdrawals of 50 BTC went smoothly without any delay. Keep it up!
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Mittlerweile haben wir uns auf einen einigermaßen akzeptablen Vergleich geeinigt.
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