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1. Buying and holding has traditionally been more profitable than mining. 2. Everyone who bought during the craze is about to become obsolete as a new generation of Nvidia cards come out and put them in negative profitability. 3. ASICs suck and so do ASIC coins, why would you launch a coin without ASIC resistant code?  ?? Centralization, market manipulation, exclusiveness. If you're into that you need to GTFO, ASICs are cancer. 4. When Ethereum goes POS if you haven't sold your GPUs your screwed. Ether refugees will drive profits through the floor. 5. POW isn't going to win. Good moral/ideology points but still waiting for the financial analysis proving me wrong on Antminer ASICs (specifically L3+ purchases). Buying and holding seems to be riskier use of proceeds - at least with mining you have hardware and could potentially resale if price drops or a new version comes out. I hear rumors that S9's will become obsolete this summer with new releases, so I agree that going all in on S9's right now probably not a great idea given the $2,600 price point. |
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I know right?! Makes no sense...it's all FUD mongers...I'm tired of it. I'm in VC and invest in startups...I get the risk vs reward idea. |
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My 2.6k rig (1080 ti, 1080, 1080, 1070) brings in 6 euros a day. That's ROI (or BE or whatever you want to call it) of 416,6666666666667 days. Without talking about the electricity costs - how high or low they may be. I can't really be positive about those numbers. Don't know what planet you live on, but mining conditions at this time -and we are ALL in it for the money, even those who say they are not- are terrible.  I'm talking ASICs... |
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I'm tired of hearing so much negativity when it comes to mining bitcoin and alts. For the Antminers, in particular, people continue to say that they don't produce a "ROI". That's just so much BS and FUD spreading...STOP IT!
I've done a ton of research on bitcoin and litecoin mining (using ltcwisdom.net) and even with serious increases to difficulty on a weekly basis (based on average increases) and, again, assuming the price of the coins don't drop extensively, you can BREAKEVEN (stop saying "ROI" when you mean BE by the way...you can have a negative ROI...so when you say "you won't ROI" that doesn't make sense) in 7-9 months on a L3+. That's worst case scenario. Best case is 4-5 months breakeven. Then, after that, it's ALL PROFIT. What is so bad about that if you have 15 machines? So you wait 4-5 months until it's paid back. And yes, maybe you're not making as much as when you first got the machines due to difficulty but you're sitting on passive income.
Same thing goes for the A3....oh boo hoo you're not making $500/day. Boo hoo you're not making $50/day. Even making $10-15/day when the machine costs $1,000 is worth it assuming you can get for a month or two. Even if you only get that rate for a month, you're paying off at least 50% -75% of your investment. That's the risk you take....
So please stop spreading FUD - we know you just don't want competition...too bad.
End Rant.
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I'm in the same boat OP...
I was thinking about getting all S9's but now I'm leaning towards building a litecoin farm with 40 L3+s.
I'm trying to confirm how much litecoin the L3+s are producing per day but I think the profits are about the same...
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For those of you mining litecoin with L3+, how much litecoin are you ACTUALLY generating per day? And have there been any sharp decreases in this amount? I don't want links to profit calculators please...
I'm debating whether or not to buy more L3+'s vs S9's given the lower cost of the L3+s. The breakdown I was thinking is either:
(18) L3+'s and (10) S9's
Or just go all in with 40 L3+'s
Profits seem to be about the same compared to an S9 and, at about half the price, seems like a better investment (esp considering electricity demands of the units). I'm making about .0011 BTC per day on each of my two S9's (about $22/day).
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You may be low on the electrician. I had one quote me $10K to hang (5) panels and hook up to the transformer. That did not include any breaker work inside the building beyond the panels. Are you going to do all your own branch work? Will your city permit that?
You can't do much about the noise due to the ventilation requirements. I presume you have factored in something to deal with the ventilation problem?
Yea, I have an HVAC engineer helping design. He's not too expensive because he's interested in this himself.
(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove an off-topic portion of the post.) |
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Called my utility company - they can do 600 amps at no charge (even for the transformer upgrade). I'd just need to pay for an electrician which I'd assume is $5,000 - $7,000 for the upgrade.
And for the noise, I'm going to try and insulate my garage with some materials that absorb noise and prevent noise leak (and then cover it up with drywall).
(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove an off-topic portion of the post.)
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Wow - so probably over 500 amps to my home. I know it may vary, but is that normally possible for a residence?
By the way, I can't thank you enough for this analysis...
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Hello,
I'm hoping to get 75 S9's in my garage. I'm planning all of this out and am trying to figure out how many amps I need to support that. Is it right I'd need almost 500 amps to my garage to support all 75 S9s?
I'm very confused on this math because I've seen many posts that say 400 amps support up to 100 S9s but that doesn't jive with what I'm calculating what I'd need.
Thank you!
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This is awesome, thank you! Have you tried out Kano vs Slush Pool (or antminer) to see which one is 'more lucky'?
Also, I didn't realize there were bank transfer fees. How much do you pay and any way to possible avoid
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ALSO...is it true people are only making $11 / day off an S9? Why do I see posts of people making $20+?
Because difficulty... At todays diff with $0.10 elec and 2% pool fees, net profit is estimated somewhere south of $10 a day according to coinwarz. There was a time when they made $20 a day when difficulty was lower. If you are getting older info it may have been accurate at the time but not now. You do understand there is a really strong likely hood diff will continue to increase for quite some time to come right? You don't seem to grasp the relationship between diff and revenue generated. I grasp that relationship. What I am saying is that I was noticing people, as recently as a week or two ago, posting on here saying they are making $20+ a day on their S9s (and even showing their slushpool accounts for verification). I'll try to find the link |
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So I looked at their website and I do not see anything for mining equipment. Do they fully understand what you're wanting to host? In my day job I work with some fairly large hosting providers, and most of them shy away from mining equipment. Mainly due to the HUGE power consumption and heat output. Servers aint got nothing on ASICs.
Most hosting datacenters ration out electric like they are their own utility company.. that is how they really make their $$$$.. They get that ultra cheap industrial rates and DO NOT let you milk as much as you can shove into a rack. You will be lucky to fill half a rack before they tell you that you need to buy another rack for more power... they will give a ton of reasons why but it is their profit maker so that is all you need to know.. They ain't going to have a furnace of heat coming out of a single rack that they have to cool since it effects the whole area of that datacenter's environment. The problem most will have is any electric costs you save by getting a place with really cheap electric will nail you on rent, etc which eats it away. If it was easy it wouldn't be for very long.. that is capitalism. So you have to hunt out a space that has great potential to double dip.. the space used for a mechanic and the electric used for mining.. or something similar. Perhaps someone who wants all that heat for whatever they are doing and join forces with them. Or you go full baller venture cap mode and just spend everyone else's money to build it and well.. you can paint the rest of that picture or read history on many other instances of that. Zen Miner anyone? https://btcmanager.com/ponzi-schemes-gaw-miners-zenminer-fined-10-million-eachThis guy is giving me capacity up to 75 at that rate, and anything after that I'd probably move out on my own anyway. I'm in VC, so I'm all about using outside capital. Us fund managers do it too :p ALSO...is it true people are only making $11 / day off an S9? Why do I see posts of people making $20+? |
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So I looked at their website and I do not see anything for mining equipment. Do they fully understand what you're wanting to host? In my day job I work with some fairly large hosting providers, and most of them shy away from mining equipment. Mainly due to the HUGE power consumption and heat output. Servers aint got nothing on ASICs.
Yeah, he knows what I want to do. He was even helping me decide between colo and self hosting. I had like a 30-minute conversation with the guy today on the phone - super nice. He's sending me the proposal tomorrow, so I'll know more then  And yes, I'll fly down too. It won't be twisting my arm to fly to Flordia in February :p |
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Yeah - I found a place down in Tampa that will host them and service them for $135/month/device. Legit data center ( https://www.synergyisp.com/)...I'd get badge access, can tour, VPN, etc. It was just the year long lease they wanted otherwise I agree 100%. Maybe I can negotiate... 135 plus electricity right? Or that all in? The other poster said 35.00 which is crazy It's 135 for everything (elec. + hosting services) |
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Yeah - I found a place down in Tampa that will host them and service them for $135/month/device. Legit data center ( https://www.synergyisp.com/)...I'd get badge access, can tour, VPN, etc. It was just the year long lease they wanted otherwise I agree 100%. Maybe I can negotiate... |
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Nice setup! Out of curiosity, what's a standard rate for your colo? The lowest rate I found is $135/m/device but they want a year-long contract. That's no beuno...
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Yeah, that was the plan to see if this was profitable at all. Trying to keep costs low until I establish gross margins and then, if the numbers are right, increasing capacity. Have you ever checked out Bitcoin Master's videos on youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Bz1CDQBHM&t=35s)? He says you need like $150-200k in infrastructure to run 50 S9s. Seems totally off base, right? |
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Hi All, I ordered two Antminer S9s and hope to scale to 50-75 (or more if BTC goes moon) by the end of the year. I'm debating whether or not I should build out my own self-hosting site in my garage (it's a large, detached from my house by 100 ft 3 car garage) OR send the miners to a colocation site that can host the miners for $100-$150/month/miner. I have no networking background and a full-time job in venture capital. So I'm leaning towards this option, especially if they can monitor them and provide uptime support. What's a good price offer for a miner colocation? However, my profit calculations project my own mining operation could be very profitable, so I'd be willing to give up my job if it turns into something worthwhile. And, at the moment, I have access to free electricity in my garage (my family pays for it - we own a real estate company. Otherwise local kwh is 5.7 cents). But even with free electricity, this option is by far the largest investment upfront since I'll need to install an HVAC (up to 10-20k CFM fans and exhausts), lots of power, networking equipment, better internet access, etc. I also live in the Midwest and so the summer gets very humid - so that's not great for the equipment I've heard. Plus there is the noise issue of having 50-75 miners in my garage and the neighbors not being too happy about that. All that said, I think I could get around 50 to 75 units in my garage. At that point, I'd 100% need to quit my job to maintain it. Any advice or guidance? My main concerns for self-hosting are: 1) humidity 2) noise 3) lack of experience. Main concerns for colocation: 1) cost and future cost increases 2) if they don't provide support, not having access to the miners immediately if something goes down. **ALSO** I'd also be interested to know what miners who have S9s are making in BTC per month. There seems to be a lot of people who like to have an opinion on this by using an online calculator to determine profits but the calculator vs what people are saying they're making isn't aligning. For instance, I've been seeing people say they make $25-$30 a day per device. That's about $750/month. Subtract out about $100 of electric costs and you're at $650. The online calculators are showing around $350 to $400 / month. Very confused. THANK YOU!!!!  |
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