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I'm on board with selling with my 5 shares
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Latest payment went out - good to be back in the profitable side of things!
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WHAT:1 share is equivalent to approximately 10GH/s. Cost for each share is 0.07 BTC The plan is to buy as many Antminer S1's as we can. I'll personally buy enough shares to round up to the next machine. We're starting with 2 (so 36 shares). If at least 37 shares are sold I'll round that up to 54 shares on 3 Antminers, etc. First unit is already ordered, additional units will be ordered as soon as the necessary funds are made (i.e. when we fill the first machine, I'll place the order for the 2nd). The last order took about 3 days to arrive here which means we should be up and hashing within the week. If for whatever reason hardware isn't up and hashing within 2 weeks, I'll offer to buy-back any shares as requested.HOW:Payment address is 1JVg4rdeTp2wqfVhsbAzJJCPjiywDLQQUPFollowing a purchase, post here with the transaction ID and the address you'd like to receive your payouts to. Payouts will be made twice per month. There is a $80 MAX per Antminer, per payout hosting fee. Why do I say max? Because I'm renegotiating power costs every time I add hardware with my hosting partner and there's a good chance that will actually be lower, especially as I add new rounds. See R1 where the hosting fee dropped from $150/payout to $100/payout as an example of this. Above the actual hosting cost, there is no maintenance fee. Why? Because I buy shares too! And in order for my shares to be worth anything, I need to keep things running! When hosting fees can no longer be covered by mining, the hardware will be sold. Profits from the sale will be split between shareholders. Shortly after mining begins (within the next week) a site will be up to monitor performance / see estimated payouts. Any other questions?See the R1 topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438740.0Post below, or PM me. I'm on multiple times throughout the day.
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Latest Update:
The decision to post-pone the hosting fees from the first payout didn't work nearly as well as hoped.
I went ahead and took the full amount (totaling just over $220, plus almost $30 of my own) to pay the whole hosting fee due for last month. I figure we'll start fresh on this and should be back to beating the hosting fees this next payout!
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Where are you ordering them from? Sushi or strait from bitmain?
Most likely direct from bitmain. But We'll go with whatever the majority of share-buyers want as usual. |
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from the website;
"
Limited units sales.
Shipment will be started on Feb 28th.
BITMAIN always do the fastest shipment !!!
"
hardly almost-instant hashing, that's another difficulty level.
Hmm...it previously said shipments within 48 hours... In my personal experience they ship sooner than expected (my last Antminer arrived the day it was supposed to be shipped) but there's certainly no guarantee of that. Adjusting the initial post now. Lowered the per-share price a bit based on this! |
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NOTICE: CANCELEDDecided to cancel this based on the fact that the shipping time went from 48 hours, to February 28th. No way to make any decent returns on this. Will relaunch a round 2 when hardware becomes reasonably available. WHAT:1 share is equivalent to approximately 10GH/s. Cost for each share is 0.09BTC Minor drop in share price to adjust for the delayed shipping. The plan is to buy as many Antminer S1's as we can. I'll personally buy enough shares to round up to the next machine. So once 1 share is purchased, that will be 18 total shares on 1 Antminer. If at least 19 shares are sold I'll round that up to 36 shares on 2 Antminers. Units go on sale in a few hours and I want to get this order in ASAP so the total number of shares will be locked soon! Orders are set to ship by the end of the month, and last order took about 3 days to arrive here which means we should be up and hashing within a couple weeks! If for whatever reason hardware doesn't arrive within 3 weeks, I'll offer to buy-back any shares as requested.HOW:Payment address is 1JVg4rdeTp2wqfVhsbAzJJCPjiywDLQQUP Following a purchase, post here with the transaction ID and the address you'd like to receive your payouts to. Payouts will be made twice per month. There is a $100 MAX per Antminer, per payout hosting fee. Why do I say max? Because I'm renegotiating power costs every time I add hardware with my hosting partner and there's a good chance that will actually be lower, especially as I add new rounds. See R1 where the hosting fee dropped from $150/payout to $100/payout as an example of this. Above the actual hosting cost, there is no maintenance fee. Why? Because I buy shares too! And in order for my shares to be worth anything, I need to keep things running! When hosting fees can no longer be covered by mining, the hardware will be sold. Profits from the sale will be split between shareholders. Shortly after mining begins (within the next week) a site will be up to monitor performance / see estimated payouts. Any other questions?See the R1 topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438740.0Post below, or PM me. I'm on multiple times throughout the day.
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Doc, maybe we could start merged mining as well to compensate for electricity?
NMC is also being mined along with the BTC. It will be converted to BTC as it makes sense and added to the payouts (probably once a month or so) |
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R2 is being planned now - will announce as soon as I have all the details locked down.
For R1:
Payments just went out.
Payout price was 0.029835596 per share.
Keep in mind, no hosting fee was taken this payout since the current price wonkiness is likely to be resolved by the end of month. This also means that at the end of the month, we'll have to take the full $250 ($150 hosting fee for this first payout, and then $100 for the new lower hosting fee for the 2nd) out of the 2nd payout. Here's hoping that value rises so it takes less BTC!
Let me know if you have any questions!
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Alright, majority of shares have spoken - we'll postpone the hosting fee this 1 time until end of month to account for the current craziness going on (thanks SR2 for your fake hack...we all appreciate losing tons of money...)
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I've acquired a new Antminer S1 which, assuming it runs well the next couple of days as a test, will be replacing the hardware this round is currently mining of (assuming shareholders don't protest to this) once this first pay-out occurs this weekend.
The upside is a reduced hosting cost due to less electricity usage (it will drop from $150 per payout to $100 per payout).
The only potential downside is this means it's running on a single piece of hardware instead of spread across 5 (single point of failure, should anything go wrong). That being said, I don't expect a brand new S1 (which have proven to be pretty solid pieces of gear) to have any issues, but I did want to bring this up.
Assuming I don't hear otherwise this will be done.
Also, with the current state of BTC:USD exchange rate, I wanted opinions - with the recent drop, do we take the per-payout hosting fee out of this payout, or take it all (the full month's hosting cost) out of the end-of-month payout (hoping for the exchange rate to improve by then). Opinions?
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Mine arrived earlier today...can't wait to set it up tonight and see how obnoxiously loud it is  |
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Broken gear get's sent back to the manufacturer for a replacement if it's unrepairable and during the downtime the loss of hash rate would be shared among all shareholders until it is repaired or replaced by the manufacturer. "Obsolete" gear can be sold on ebay usually for more then market price /gh I believe because people on ebay are either dumb or ok with the paying a bit more because they can buy it easily with fiat. The proceded for the sale gets added to the RIF meaning less shares would need to be sold for the next gen gear and that sale benefits all current share holders.
I don't see any better sides compared to option #1 + reinvestment. It has absolutely same benefits, as you mentioned. But if you buy shares of ants hardware and in 4 years they broke down and Bitmine got shut down/bought by another company/etc, then you will pay for your buying. Not somebody else, who has no idea, why he should pay for your buying. Having a group buy that reinvests a portion of earnings, but doesn't take on any new buyers after the round ends is impossible - no hardware generates enough revenue on its own to purchase additional hardware while still making any significant payouts to the shareholders. |
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Simpler version (example only, not saying this is definitely happening if you're one of my R1 buyers!)
Round 1 bought shares at 0.1btc for 10GH/s
I'm about to launch round 2, let's say it's 0.09btc for 10GH/s
Total hash rate doubled, so did the number of shares, it breaks even.
Round 1 people paid more for shares but they also got additional payouts before round 2 happened so they're happy, and both groups know that even of either machine goes down, during that downtime they're still earning SOMETHING.
Now as upgrades are purchased with the upgrade fund (in the option 3 scenario) that estimated GH/share (10 to start) goes up, but new shares are generally always sold at a reasonable rate for the time.
The shares that came before you and come after you are added insurance and nothing gets too tricky until that first round of hardware goes obsolete.
At that time, the hope is the resell value of that hardware (it would be non-0) plus whatever's in the upgrade fund buys more hash rate, almost definitely greater than what the now-obsolete hardware was providing and all existing shareholders gain hashing power, without the "being bogged down by previous shareholders" issue that seems to be your concern.
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You buy in another group buy and after 3-4 months your investment is done. How much is that share worth as of month 5 or 6? Nothing.
Again, another group buy offers absolutely same rules and reinvestment details as your group buy. These shares worth same as your group buy shares. But they offer 150 GHs for 30$ at start (for comparison to your 110 GHs 30$). Then, their R2 shares will rise to 200 GHs, while your R4 shares will rise to 155 GHs. Then, their R3 shares will rise to 300 GHs, while your R5 shares will rise to 250 GHs. Another company pop up with 30$ for 350 GHs shares. It's just the example, but you should get the point. These problems you could meet in future and come to the point where you couldn't open new rounds. Basically your argument of why this won't work is because someone else could offer the exact same thing, but make it a better deal somehow? Isn't that true of ANY group buy anywhere, where someone else could sell the same hardware cheaper? |
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But these mining organizations will pop up and offer better deals, because they will have new hardware and dont have old investors (as I mentioned in previous posts). If you can make example, where they won't have better deals (your shares won't be overpriced), it would be appreciated.
To use tripppn's example, your "value" changes over time... In the example he gave that R1 buyer had $33 for 10GH/s, by the time R3 comes around, that R1 buyer still only ever paid $33, but now he's gotten 110GH/s hashing for him. And when R4 happens he's up even more...all for that single early one-time investment of $33. Even the people who buy in at R3 getting 110GH/s for $33, by the time R4 happens his investment that was already made is increased. You buy in another group buy and after 3-4 months your investment is done. How much is that share worth as of month 5 or 6? Nothing. This is admittedly something that has to be explained more clearly, BUT it's something that would provide a lot more long-term stability to investors, and a steady increase in hash rate meaning that your investment continues earning after the first piece of hardware is obsoleted. |
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Crap... this has me thinking and now I want to put it to the test with an S1 to start off with and break it into 10 shares.
I'll be launching something next week |
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@tripppn, In your example both R2 and R3 have overpriced shares. Can you make another example, where shares won't be overpriced (and hardware will be sold at market GH/$ rate)?
That's the problem with the way you're thinking about this... You wouldn't be buying a set number of GH/$ You'd be buying into a mining organization that pays out regular dividends to shareholders, with the goal of dividends + the price you eventually sell the share for being greater than your initial investment. This isn't a short-term 2-3 month deal where you hope to make a bunch of cash and it's over, it's ongoing. |
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This is overpriced shares. You can find much higher dividends hardware/GB for 0.5 BTC today. This model will live as long, as you could find investors, who will buy overpriced shares.
You're not taking into account the value of the share itself, its inherent ability to be resold, and the fact that unlike group-buys where you're strictly concerned with $/GH/s, this isn't a one-time, 3-months-and-it's-over sort of deal |
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