Thanks for the update. The non compliance with the "whitepaper" stays; it's not the first one, it won't probably be the last.
Sure. Especially if you take into account that the presale which supposedly is going to end in two days didn't even start yet! (Not one single NEM blockchain token was actually sold so far.) |
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I was just going to write the same. It's just the last of many problems till now with "El Petro". According to an announcement of Maduro today the presale period only ends in two days. This is what he had to say today: Dentro de dos días culmina el período de preventa del petro. https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqKDdbEQjkKV (at 1:02:38) |
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The Venezuelan opposition fan here is so desperate that it's hard to believe s/he's an adult. That's the effect of hysteria, generated by 2 decades of 24/7 brainwash.
So much for "insult based". The question was, whether we should expect China, Russia and India to buy large parts of the petro issue. I provided some arguments, why I think rather not. The following isn't directly linked to that question, but let's have a look: By the way, US companies have billions of investments in Venezuela too...
This is correct. and the government of Venezuela keeps fair relations with several US companies, except Exxon Mobil (whose CEO Rex Tillerson decided to leave the country after Chavez introduced the first reforms in the oil market). Exxon Mobil lost billions leaving Venezuela for purely racist and political reasons. All other companies stayed in Venezuela, paid a bit more taxes and kept making great profits.
"Purely racist and political reasons"? How do you know? As to other companies making great profits: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-companies-insight/awaiting-better-days-multinationals-keep-venezuela-units-alive-barely-idUSKBN1CB0DXhttp://money.cnn.com/2017/07/30/news/companies/us-companies-venezuela/Don't try to get crazy with economic indicators.
You never should get crazy. But economic indicators are of course essential if you want to evaluate a possible investment. |
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I am going to make an offer to buy Petro. Here´s why:
On one hand, the U.S. and Europe want Venezuela´s petroleum, but on the other hand, so do China, Russia and India. These three countries have investments for more than 100 billion dollars in the production of Venezuelan oil.
That's wrong. Even for all investment of these three countries 100 billion dollars is probably an exaggeration. But anyway, what's your source? China, Russia and India want to uphold Venezuela´s government and help it to overcome U.S. sanctions. Therefore, these three countries will consider a purchase of 5 billion dollars in Petro (which they will need to do business with Venezuela) a relatively small additional investment to defend their interests in that country
To throw good money after bad? Basically all observers agree that China is ever more hesitant to invest substantial amounts of new money and also from Russia there are coming cautionary signs. ( India isn't heavy into Venezuelan investment.) Definitely those countries won't need petros to do business with Venezuela. Venezuela is so dependent on China and Russia that it isn't in any position to impose the use of petros as a condition for business. …and the Venezuelan government will not do anything as irrational as the emission of 100 million more Petro, which would cause the collapse of this important financial instrument and the loss of the support of Petro´s principal owners.
That depends much on what the real aim is and who the principal owners are going to be. |
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I'm a great fan of open source and it's fine that Venezuela builds on an existing project. but you said: "It's just an indication of the level of technical competence." ¿butthurt? You cut out my argument: They would have shown technical competence by improving on it and making it for instance more user friendly for those people who are new to the cryptocurrency world and first of all interested in the petro. But I expect there to be future releases moving into that direction.
Good example, illustrating my point: The WFP project did what SUPCACVEN wasn't doing so far: Building Blocks replaced the payment part with a ledger that records the transactions on a private version of ethereum that it developed. But maybe we leave it at that: It's a minor point anyway. |
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No legal problem at this point. It's just an indication of the level of technical competence. a blockchain and its software from scratch could take a few years of development. Venezuela need something right now. the nem project and their software is open source so other can use it too. that's the point of a "open source" project I'm a great fan of open source and it's fine that Venezuela builds on an existing project. They would have shown technical competence by improving on it and making it for instance more user friendly for those people who are new to the cryptocurrency world and first of all interested in the petro. But I expect there to be future releases moving into that direction. KodakCoin will use the Ethereum blockchain platform.
that indicate the level of Kodak technical competence?
Wrong example. There is no link between KodakCoin and the former technical competence of Kodak: Kodak went bankrupt in 2013 ... Other than the name, there is no connection between Kodak and KODAKCoin. It's just another licensing deal. https://www.finder.com.au/kodakcoin-is-a-failed-ico-rebranded-under-kodak-name |
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if the petrocoin crash, the venezuelan goverment will return each petrocoin you have the value of a Venezuelan barrel of oil in the international market using fiat money or other cryptocoins. That would be a big deal if true. But it isn't. If you read through the official documents (presidential decrees, white paper, contract, as I did) you will see there is no mention at all of such a promise. bankruptcy with oil, gas, gold, diamond, silver, coltan, iron, coal, thorium, titanium...? lmao. Its possible for bankruptcy to occur with a great many assets. Especially if the assets require investment to extract. The Lehmens Brothers bankruptcy is still dealing with various assets and very slowly paying back creditors still, I believe its still an active company in theory but is very much not the active or correctly working operation it was in decades previous. That would relate to insolvency perhaps, its true the assets of Venezuela are great. There is also the massive challenge of efficent extraction. Every oil investor world wide knows finding oil is not the end story, it can be costly to extract and in some cases the oil can never be removed without costs exceeding possible profits and is left in ground. This is a common scenario. You are correct: A country can become insolvent and default on its debts even if it has huge natural assets. And natural assets are of not much value as long they are not extracted. |
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The petro wallets finally have arrived. What's the Petro wallet? Right: The Nano Wallet v2.1.2 with a different branding. send a message to the NEM foundation, so they can close their software, haha!! No legal problem at this point. It's just an indication of the level of technical competence. |
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Why is a private company commentating and not the UN, I thought they were stated as observers. Its obviously not a point in favour but even with zero evidence its quite obvious elections are false when the numbers give no semblance of opposition existing.
Better rely on facts. Yes, on facts. Not your compilations of government propaganda. Your tactic: Instead of exchanging arguments on the topic at hand you start long rants with additional unsubstantiated claims. I so far tried to back up my claims, but that's no help against your propaganda tactic. They had decided to take the streets months before and started extremely violent riots with fire guns, molotovs, home-made bazookas and bombs that led to 176 deaths. Most were victims of opposition gangs, not police.
This is the story of the government propaganda. Opposition demonstrations started peacefully, but were violently suppressed. Independent observers agree that there was excessive use of force against protests: Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained. There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators. https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/venezuela/The "private company" claimed they were 1 million less, like this, based on zero evidence.
They have the evidence. As many whistle blowers they don't share it with the general public. Government and opposition met for months to find deals on many subjects but mostly on the upcoming Presidential elections. The government agreed to apply all the guarantees the opposition asked (nothing special, mostly making it easy for Venezuelans in Miami to vote and the date).
If you compare the proposal of the opposition with the one signed by the government you will see that there are many things the opposition (reasonably) asked for which were not accepted by the government. And when they were ready to sign, with all the agreed conditions (a couple of months ago), the opposition decided to withdraw, under obvious US order.
Pure left wing conspiracy theory without any basis in facts. |
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Why is a private company commentating and not the UN, I thought they were stated as observers.
The private company is commentating because they were responsible for the electronic voting system and they didn't want to get blamed for the fraud. If you read there statement you will see that they carefully try to explain why and how a fraud can happen even with a electronic voting system like theirs. https://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-statement-on-the-recent-constituent-assembly-election-in-venezuela/There were no observers from the UN, OAS, EU, the Carter Center ... but only a selected bunch of people sympathetic with the regime. (No, no hundreds of international observers.) |
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OK, let's calm down. What's the Petro wallet? Right: The Nano Wallet v2.1.2 with a different branding. The new white paper puts it so well: NEM blockchain is combining best possibilities of Bitcoin, Etherium, and other blockchains, yet make it in truly secure, safe, fast, more cost efficient, user and developer friendly way. With help of it’s standard software it can be used without help of developers of IT experts to prove and check if andy electronic documents are genuine, notary services, secure and encrypted messaging, creating crypto assets and smart contracts, getting rewards from network, that is similar to mining cryptocurrency in other public blockchains, all this can be done in user friendly interface of NEM standard software. |
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As the opposition (rightly) boycotted the sham elections, the process was only "audited" and "controlled" by those perpetrating the fraud. The Smartmatic statement explains it well, without taking any political stance.
For 20 years the opposition and the US have refused the results of elections, unless they won. The criminal part of the opposition simply cannot win elections democratically (don't have the votes), therefore they need coups like 2002 or violence and foreign intervention. I don't even reply to baseless, evidence free, biased statements anymore.It's difficult to win against a government which abuses power and manipulates elections. To speak all the times about "criminals" in the context of the opposition is part of the government propaganda. |
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Both statements of Smartmatic are worthwhile reading, but if you ask whether Smartmatic has a case or not in the question of the manipulation of the elections to the fraudulent and unconstitutional ANC please read that one: https://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-statement-on-the-recent-constituent-assembly-election-in-venezuela/That is totally ridiculous and obviously EVIDENCE FREE as almost everything the US propaganda claims: the electoral process in Venezuela is audited and controlled by ALL parties involved, and monitored by international observers.
As the opposition (rightly) boycotted the sham elections, the process was only "audited" and "controlled" by those perpetrating the fraud. The Smartmatic statement explains it well, without taking any political stance. |
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Next Presidential election is on 22nd April, 2018, very soon.
The ONU doesn't recognize this elections Venezuela has the most advanced electronic electoral system in the region (by far superior in terms of reliability and safety than any other). This system was developed, implemented, maintained and certified for all the major elections in Venezuela from 2004 to 2015 by Smartmatic. About the elections for the fraudulent and unconstitutional "National Constituent Assembly" Smartmatic declared: Based on the robustness of our system, we know, without any doubt, that the turn out of the recent election for a National Constituent Assembly was manipulated. ... We estimate the difference between the actual participation and the one announced by authorities is at least one million votes. Please check the whole story at Smartmatic's site: https://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-statement-on-the-recent-constituent-assembly-election-in-venezuela/About the following two elections Smartmatic declared: Smartmatic did not participate in the last two elections (Regional Elections of October 15, 2017 and Municipal Elections of December 10, 2017) ... Since the company was not involved in these processes, and given the fact that the company’s products are not under warranty and were not certified for those elections, Smartmatic cannot guarantee the integrity of the system, nor can it attest to the accuracy of the results. This of course is true also for coming elections. Please read the whole statement at the Smartmatic site: https://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-announces-cease-of-operations-in-venezuela/ |
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Only 6 days left until the end of the pre-sale!
Only 6 days left until the end of the pre-sale and pre-sale hasn't started yet! If you doubt, please confirm in the white paper: The Pre-sale ... will consist of the creation and sale of smart-asset on the NEM blockchain platform. Not one petro-presale token on NEM was sold so far: http://explorer.ournem.com/#/s_account?account=NCGBBZKOTERO3EXMPPCNDNDXZQQJXBEMWWO7MB66(If this isn't the account, there isn't any other on NEM which would fit the description of the petro-presale or petro token.) The ICO should start on 20th March.
Looking at the experience of the presale, there might be just a show without any actual start of the ICO. But we will see. Hope there will be much needed tech updates soon!
I wholeheartedly agree. |
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this is a really good question! This is a crypto different from the others! How can people expect a pump? even a X5 pump?
I think that the real purpose for this coin is to pay the bondholders..
Talks are underway to use the Petro also for not-only-oil trade in the ALBA countries (several small Caribbean countries and Bolivia, but others could join in the future). A sort of small local Euro. They already have a kind of local euro, the sucre. After a promising start it turned to be a sounding failure. The main user was Ecuador with a maximum of 2077 transactions in sucre in 2012 going down to 14 transactions (worth $4,9 million) in the first half of 2017. |
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Hello there is nobody that answers my questions?
Hi, I'm sorry that nobody answers your questions. I see two main reasons: First they are so many  Second, they should be answered by somebody involved in the project, and as far as I can see, there is nobody involved in the project participating in this discussion. I'm a skeptic if it comes to the petro, and I guess you won't like my answers. But I will try to answer at least a few of them to the best of my knowledge. Why can not Petro be bought with Bolívares? The Venezuelan government is in desperate need of foreign currency. The petro is a move to get at it. By selling petros for bolivares they don't get any hard currency. why did they do it with the ERC20 algorithm if it is the easiest? ... Why is it a token and not a cryptocurrency? I guess they started of with ERC20 because it is easy, and they switched to NEM because it's super easy. A non-mineable token combines also better with the kind of government control they want. Also, there is no market volume at the Exchange House recognized ... Although on 20 of February the petro presale officially was launched it didn't start yet. There are no petros. Not even one presale token was sold. So, there can't be any market volume. Please explain why the Whitepaper is so poor? The main answer: If it comes to the economy everything done by the Venezuelan government is done poorly. No surprise that the white paper and the launch of the petro were done poorly too. There is much information missing in the white paper? Of course! To withhold essential information is part and parcel of Maduro's way of doing politics! Concretely you have to imagine a team of enthusiasts, beginners, opportunists, ideologically blinded and profiteers under time pressure working at the white paper and the launch of the petro. (They for instance wanted to start the presale at first of March and Maduro moved that forward.) |
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I don't think they will count your intention if you don't sign the contract,I did sign the contract and I am from Luxembourg. If you are from Venezuela it is very delicate and I think those from Venezuela have to go through www.dicom.gob.veYes I sent my tax details. I guess my offer was not counted among the 186.306 "certified offers". (But who knows, as nobody cared to explain what counts as such.) But I'm pretty sure that my offer counted among the 735 million, more than 1 billion, 1,2 billion, more than 3 billion and now more than 5 billion dollar. These numbers went up much too fast to be based on those contracts, Maduro himself explained that at least the 735 million and 1 billion were not certified, and no official announcement ever linked those numbers with certified offers. |
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