It won't happen unless there are ~2000 more votes for the motion.

The liquor store I go to has given a 5% discount with the use of cash/debit for over 15 years.  Retail stores could always give a deduction in the past for cash prices while jacking up the price for card swipers.

Sounds like a good idea.  If BFL doesn't deliver in Feb like they said then growing via more FPGA is a good plan, IMO.  It would also be good to diversify FPGA platforms.

This is a good plan.

Just to make sure, the 50% of the revenue held will be held by Cognitive and not held by a person to earn interest, right?

This is really good analysis.  The preferred shares would only be beneficial to Cognitive it was done on a short term basis.  Also, the income needed to pay these preferred shares need to be  supported by the income of the mining and not dip into the savings fund that will go to purchase new mining rigs.

I suppose eventually Cognitive will get large enough that the retained mining income can support the growth on its own and not have to rely on additional investment that will dilute initial shareholders.  I would like to see a plan on where Garr sees Cognitive in 2-5 years.

How many weeks would it required with the 50% dividend to grow the mining company by buying ASIC from, for example, butterfly labs when they actually exist?

I don't think you should set a price for these shares.  You should let people bid on the shares and see what the market values this at, sort of like the PPT bonds did on GLBSE.  Everything else seems about the preferred shares seem great to me.


I am not so hot on the future shares right now.  I think having one type of  shares like the preferred or the futures it makes it even more difficult to set an intrinsic value to the COGNITIVE shares.

There are lots of others, for example, that need that prestigious tag as well.

Yea it was fun making that site but I have been too busy to start up a new one.  I wanted to add charts to the site so after things settle down I can work on that.

This is why points need to be offered on the loan (such as 5% or whatever).  Payment is up front.  So if someone wants a $1,000 loan they will receive $950 (5% of $1000) and hand over the bitcoins as collateral, but required to pay back $1000 + the interest.  The bitcoins would have to appreciate at a higher percentage point than the initial points to come out ahead, meaning they need to hold the loan for a longer period of time.  The initial points paid on the loan would act as a hedge for the creditor in case of price depreciation and the debtor decides to default on the loan instead of paying the amount due.

Sure, if not everyone wants to eat.

Best metric is to read reddit/r/bitcoin and see how many posts predict it will go to $1000.  That is selling time because the market is saturated with no one left to buy.

A preferred stock could be that the owner of the preferred stock has an extra return of X% each month and then after a certain amount of months those preferred shares are exchanged for normal shares.  Berkshire Hathaway did this with Bank of America a few years ago.

The way to initialize this would be to just open a new class of shares.

You should probably write off that Starfish default unless you think you can collect from him some way.

I think it might be more effective to take down the 1805 shares on sale for 0.62 BTC and use the reserve funds to purchase back some of the shares, unless you think the current ask prices of 0.38-0.50 are still overpriced.  The large number of shares at 0.62 makes it impossible for investors to sell shares above that price in the short term.  If you want to sell those share then I suggest you do it in a range that you feel Cognitive is fairly valued at, or offer them as a preferred stock to entice people to buy them.

Disagreements with my post coming from 2 different directions.  This proves that no one really knows what will happen with borrowing of deflationary currencies.  I can only look at what has happened in the past in similar situations and make predictions.

I am pretty suspicious of utopian ideas.  The world is not going to be more happy and fair just because people have access to bitcoins.  Markets have never been predictable before, that is because its price is based on supply and demand.  One of the theories of why hyperinflation  occurred during the 1970s was due to a somewhat predictable inflation.  People knew that prices were going to increase by at least, for example 10%, so they expected to get paid 10% more the following year.  This had the effect of people having more money to buy the same amount of things which increased the inflation rate to more than 10%.

In scarce commodities, like gold, there is a predictive yet small amount of new gold put in existence, but people cannot predict the price of gold in the future.  The reason is because of the potential for supply shock that can occur with gold if the large holders of gold flood the market.  This is the unpredictable supply of gold, and what bitcoin will be like in the future when most of the bitcoins have been mined.  Demand is also not predictable, it may change over time.  If a predictable deflation of gold cannot be guaranteed, then it is very unlikely that bitcoins would have a predictable deflationary rate.

So we get back to my main point.  Bitcoins will live in coexistence with fiat currencies just like gold has done.  Also, like gold, bitcoins will be used in loans in the form of collateral to create secured loans.

I don't think there will be any kind of borrowing bitcoins in the future, especially long term loans.  There will be the use of bitcoins as collateral for a loan in fiat money, much like a gold loan. 

Lets say Alice borrows 1000 bitcoins from her Credit Union to purchase a car because she needs a car right now.  She gets a 5 year loan.  She would find that she would have an increasingly difficult time paying back that loan.

Say her job pays her in bitcoins.  As bitcoins become more scarce the value she provides to the company becomes less in terms of bitcoins so she would get a reduction in pay over time.  It is not such a big deal since all the goods around her are becoming less expensive in terms of bitcoins too.  The only problem is that loan she took.  If she got paid in fiat the same thing would theoretically happen as more fiat would purchase less bitcoins.

So she borrows 1000 bitcoins at a rate of 5% APR, and she has to make 60 payments of about 18.87 bitcoins a month for a total of 1132.27 bitcoins on the original 1000 bitcoin loan.  The problem is that bitcoins in this make believe world is deflating against other items at about 1% a year.  So the first year Alice makes 10,000 bitcoins, the 2nd year she makes 9,900, the 3rd year 9801, the 4th 9702.99, and the 5th year she makes 9605.96.  Her loan payment as a percentage of her yearly income increased over the term of her loan.  Of course, a bank could could instead charge no interest and just rely on the increase of the value of bitcoins to make a profit, but that rate of increase is volatile and unpredictable for the lender to rely on.

The problem with deflation is that it does not keep people from buying things, it keeps them from borrowing.  It does not matter if the bank holds a lot of funds, no one is going to borrow a deflationary currency because they have to pay not only the interest but also the unknown deflation rate.

What will happen instead is a type of loans in fiat from a lending institution that will use bitcoins as collateral on the loan.  If Alice wants a loan for a car she borrows $16,000 from the bank but she also gives the bank a percentage of bitcoins to the bank in collateral depending on her credit worthiness.  If she defaults she will lose her collateral, but if she fulfills her obligation on her loan she will receive her 1000 bitcoins back.

When was the last time someone actually got a scammer tag?

I agree, I have no doubt that if Pirate paid up that the debt would have been due and that the counter parties had intention to pay if their bet was lost. 

He has some real attention seeking psychological problems.  He has left the forums a few months because of his trolling before just to crawl back later with all these apologizes.    It is like an abusive spouse that beats his wife and comes back later all sorry just to beat her again.  The best way to confront a person like this is called tactical ignoring.

Maybe a google search will help.

amazingrando

What is the outstanding amount that is owed?  Is it that difficult to get a traditional short term loan?