Not based on trust means not dependent on magic elements that support the whole system.
It means removing the middle man.

Trust inherent in a community keeps it together.
Trust inherent in a process is a vulnerability.

Try not to trip over these different meanings.

As a troll, I can appreciate the rebound effect of a good challenge.
But trolls are crude, not vicious.
They make things difficult, not personal.

This episode has been on the troll scale, meh.

As for the early adopter period being over and all the hoopla about distribution:
Pics or it didn't happen.
Bitcoiners were minted when idiots still thought we would pull out from the economic train wreck.
Litecoiners were the second wave (two more coming), a little less optimistic, a lot more driven.

Litecoin began with one leg in the infrastructure stage because of the delusional rhetoric coming from bitcoiners.
Litecoiners did not have the means to enter a productive stage in bitcoin. "a store of value, a store of value" droned the new sages.
Mostly fluff.

Cryptocoins will not take hold until the early adopter stage, wealth building stage, and industrial stage overlap with the trading stage.
We have two more waves to get this right.

I can't stand the concept of demurrage. It takes your wealth while it's in your wallet. The critical issue is that it imposes pressure regardless whether the local economy will benefit from it or not.
Demurrage is action at a distance. Decrees without any consequences or feedback to those making the decrees. Besides the goals can be achieved without demurrage.

However, watching big Bitcoiners talking about "well do you have some service to offer?" when they knew very well that was a meaningless question.
1. Small Bitcoiners were starting from the bottom and therefore would not be anywhere near in the sphere of big Bitcoiners.
2. Big Bitcoiners have no needs that the small Bitcoiners could serve anyway, therefore it's also a fairly elitist question.

All of that wouldn't matter much except for big Bitcoin idiots calling altcoin a scam.

So let me get this straight:
1. You have no needs for anyone to service.
2. You don't invest in anything not already well on its way.
3. You demand those who can't serve you to use your currency or die.
4. You accuse people who can't serve you of being scammers because they create their own community.

This isn't intended for those who have put many hours into bitcoin and newcomers: PLS TAKE A CHILL PILL AND STFU!

As soon as this shit is over, people I work with will:
1. Resurrect litecoin if it is destroyed.
2. Develop chain neutral features.
3. Push viral lightweight technologies for real economic strength in communities.
4. Troll the living fuck out of the remaining Messianic nutjobs in this community.

SUMMERFAGS GO AWAY
COME AGAIN ANOTHER DAY!

There's a place out there for us
More than just a prayer or anything you've ever dreamed of
So when you feel like giving up, 'cause you don't fit in down here
Fear is crashing in, close your eyes and take my hand, yeah

We can be the kings and queens of anything if we believe
It's written in the stars that shine above
A world where you and I belong where, faith and love will keep us strong
Exactly who we are is just enough

There's a place for us

There's a place for us

When the water meets the sky
Where your heart is free and hope comes back to life
When these broken hands are whole again
We'll find what we've been waiting for, we were made for so much more

We can be the kings and queens of anything if we believe
It's written in the stars that shine above
A world where you and I belong, where faith and love will keep us strong
Exactly who we are is just enough

There's a place for us

There's a place for us

So hold on, hold on

There's a place for us
We can be the kings and queens of anything if we believe
It's written in the stars that shine above
A world where you and I belong, where faith and love will keep us strong

Exactly who we are is just enough
Exactly who we are is just enough

There's a place for us

AMERICA ONLINE IS THE ONLY REAL INTERNET
FACEBOOK IS A SCAM OF MYSPACE WHICH IS A SCAM OF GEOCITIES
BROWSER IS A SCAM OF XMODEM
APPLE IS A SCAM OF PEACH
SCAM IS A SCAM OF SCAM

the only way to trade on the chains rather than an exchange is through cross chain contracts. this is a nice thing to have, but with the kind of drama going on, people will be stuck between a drama chain and a train wrecked fiat currency. they will fork, they will create regional chains, they will just decide to go blockchain but avoid the associated derp of some chains. people do that when they have to have something and it's well you know prickly.

we will end up with either conversion centers (thieves in the temple) or everybody having to have 100 wallets.

it is the tendency of systems to separate and join as they evolve.

instead we should have a conversion scheme where the transaction record shows blocks with coins that have natural value (the chain value), the multiplier value (from the conversion), and the current value (what was traded with and locked to). you would just need a conversion chain where these conversions would be recorded and looked up.

now the funny thing is you could just leave the current value void. you trade 5 tinycoins for 1 sausage coin and it just so happens 5 tinycoins is now also 1 btc but sausage coins are .5 btc so it floats and trades with the 1 btc. you can decide whether to lock the currency or just have the multiplier. this would smooth out trading as it would allow chain hopping when chains have similar multipliers.

An economy is made up of earnings, savings, investment, trade.

The vague as hell rhetoric around supply and demand doesn't cut it.

Some people don't switch products because of performance nor price. Deal with it, purists.
Some people choose a product because the kind of community it attracts, how many people have interchangeable parts, which product has a service center closer.
I really shouldn't have to explain this.

So with the drama that goes on in some places, people may decide to fork (like they do software) and start over and produce an identical chain with few differences but a different community. We will have to at some point negotiate among these blockchains. Exchanging by signing contracts isn't going to cut it. We will have to have a means of converting coins.

A few of us have some ideas but we're curious what you guys think.

One idea we came up with is: Mining conversion tokens

You mine bitcoins and in the process of creating a block you also include a multiplier token which is now part of the action. The token portion would be reversible and other multiplier tokens could be inserted in the conversion.

If you were to convert between bitcoin and an exact clone of bitcoin you would give a 1:1 token and they would do the same.
If you were to convert between Bitcoin and 5 tinycoins that are worth 1/5th:
1. Each tinycoin and bitcoin would be in a package with a multiplier.
2. 5 1:1 tokens from the tinycoin chain would be combined into 1 5:1 token.
3. 1 1:1 token from the bitcoin chain would be extracted and compared with the 5:1 token from the tinycoin chain.
4. #3 causes the 1 1:1 token to split into 5 1:5 tokens.
5. This would cause the bitcoin block to split into 5 copies with the 1:5 token in each copy.
6. #3 causes the 5 tinycoins to become one tinycoin.
7. This causes the 1 5:1 token to become embedded in the tinycoin.

There would not be a trace within the coin block that the conversion took place. We could have a conversion record separately so that people can't just insert whatever multiplier they want. It could have been 5 tinycoins for 1 sausage coin. Any store that accepts 5 tinycoins for 1 bitcoin would accept the tinycoin with the multiplier. Similarly any store that sold candy for 1 tinycoin would not return change for a bitcoin with a 1:5 multiplier.

Any questions?

This would allow direct chain to chain trades without everyone having to have wallets in chains they don't usually work with.

You are a humorless bag of crusading warthog.

Dude, srsly. You actually thought they were serious? Can I sell you a lolcow?

no you paranoids.

when you overload a server the database daemon quits. it has to be restarted.

I sold chewing gum for 31.4 ltc

Send $1 with a VouchX code (u could sell .12 btc) on vircurex and I will send you 1 ltc to your address.

BCX didn't expect the hive.

The hive expected BCX.

Been building for a while now.

Time to drop anchor and board her ship.

Okay so ppl don't like responses to dramafags. (thread removed)
Fine. Let's be blunt then. I knew war was beginning when I sold chewing gum for 31.4 ltcs way back.
This will fundamentally change bitcoin and litecoin.

For the better.

The biggest dramafags are going to lose the most.

Have fun.

How old is he? Seems like an immature attention needing idiot. Was all gung ho about what he could do to affect the exchange and litecoins. May even be trying to smear the site's reputation.

This thread is so in denial. More for me.

I make more btc by mining litecoins.

Also a currency doesn't need monopoly status. And its intrinsic value is not how many people use it, but rather this:
intrinsic value = how many people use it * (how quickly they use it * how much they expect for it) / (avg duration between purchase and delivery / avg item value)

Litecoiners are not in denial about the coming collapse.
Bitcoiners are already done building their bunkers.
Early adopters have no pedestrian needs.
Newcomer's skills are not in demand with those who have the money.

If anything will bring down a currency it's the community becoming brittle and stagnant.
Litecoin isn't quite there yet.

Not really. Most alt coins just modified those values without changing much else. They could easily just be btc/dvc/nmc/ltc with a frontend.
Also those terms are generic and have nothing to do with the method of generation.

LevceEDYZWbWRSaEBpY9UW8kS22BjPxmuo - Litecoins
1P2rFGhiz57b6v61ZZVJ53Uvjh1YxbqknU - Bitcoins

I can't withdraw from your pool. I also cannot set an address: Lcu3FwpAy8T7GzL2K8qvuZBkERmZYBbhWq

username NASDAQEnema

An economy is made of earnings, savings, investment, and trade. We don't have the time to wait for the unconscious market process to bring these forth. We have to build the kernels for these aspects and then protect them until they mature. What we're proposing is an interface where the backend is any coin you want and the front end is an economic internal combustion engine. The backend coin defines the limits of the coin interface system and never allows the dynamics of the system to generate more coins than the naked coin would. Every altcoin has modified the rules for one or more of the major aspects of coins, the generation target, retarget time, difficulty, total coins, block reward. As long as no more coins are generated than the naked coin would, all these aspects may be modified.

The total number of coins is fixed to the backend coin, the coinbase.
The generation depends on the actual offered hashing resources.
The retarget time depends on the the average of the projected time until all the targets are achieved.
The block reward depends on the generation confidence (block hits in a duration).

A complete economic model includes earnings, savings, investment, and trade.
Each of these is a relation between 4 terms
reference term = anchoring term * (increasing term / decreasing term)

For earnings we could have:
reference term = next generation target / current generation target
anchoring term = feedback loop size / average feedback loop size
increasing term = trade rate / trade target
decreasing term = income rate / average income rate
As more people trade the system generates more blocks.
As more income is earned the system doesn't need to generate as much.

For investment:
reference term = next difficulty / current difficulty
anchoring term = feedback loop velocity / average feedback loop velocity
increasing term = generation rate / generation target
decreasing term = association rate / average association rate
As more people generate blocks the system raises the difficulty.
As more people interact in one to many relationships the difficulty is reduced.

For savings:
reference term = next trade target / current trade target
anchoring term = feedback loop number / average feedback loop number
increasing term = block reward / block reward target
decreasing term = storage period / average storage period
As more coins are stored the trading is induced to increase.
As more trading occurs in the same space trading is reduced.

For trade:
reference term = next block reward target / current block reward target
anchoring term = feedback loop resonance / average feedback loop resonance
increasing term = retarget time / retarget time target
decreasing term = hash rate / average hash rate
As local economies accelerate neighboring economies the block reward goes up.
As the hash power increases the block reward goes down.

No demurrage.
No new blockchains needed.
Features can be added to any coin without creating a new fork.

Even if scam coin were legit, now it's obsolete.

LOL. Paranoid. First of all that has nothing to do with 'fear of bitcoin/altcoin/jokecoin/scamcoin'. That's standard Inner Tube safety.
If you have to mention those issues, your audience isn't tall enough for this ride.


That sounds like a procedure for both evaluating and IMPROVING. I still fail to see the need to mention of the 'fear factor'. Not calling you FUDmonkey, but this is kind of standard isn't it or should we require an internet driver's license?


This is where we're playing games with psychology or at least it can seem so. There's a lot of ppl with internet war stories talking about scams without context (exception silly coin from the hunter of the RealSilly).


More boilerplate advice. It's good stuff for noobs, but come on are we still in 1990?