(careful with that folks ... don't wanna rip a hole in the universe)

punchin it punchin it punchiiiiiiiin it uuuuuup goodbye sub 300 (regardless of the uncooperative stamp and generally lagging behind btce)

aaaaand now violently dumping everywhere

awesome

     

now we see if the chinese exchanges hold 300 and drag the other lagging ones up to the low 300s as well ?

hahaha yeah sold some right as i was in the middle of typing that caught the mid 7s but just by the hair of my chin  

that knockoff alt ltc had to plummet eventually

caliiiiiforniaaaaaa here we cooooome !!!

houbi going absolutely vertical too !!!

$355 !!!

can't buy fast enough !!!

goodbye sub 300s !!!

hot diggity fucking daffodils this is pretty sweet !

sure am happy right now i've got both btc and ltc and i'm probably not supposed to toot other crypto horns here but what the hell , TOOT TOOT TOOT TOOT !!!

shit ! my horn is broken ! it won't stop honking !

*edit (a now smaller amount of ltc ... as it seems to be burning ...)

after every gain, there's *always* a pull back *always* a "correction" doooon't worry it's natural and expected - cough cough read "don't worry and hold your coins while others dump fuck the market as you sit with your thumb up your ass losing money and we take all of the available profits (possible only as a result of the artificial pump) and btw we'll be using those profits to eventually re-buy much much lower from where we crushed the market down, for the 10,000th time".

($14 down from yesterday's high point)

why don't we have a puking smiley ?

Yeah hahaha, sorry about that, accidental fud I guess, my bad. Happy to provide a laugh. I meant that sarcastically/ironically to insult the shorters (who seem utterly fucking hellbent on crashing price, in spite of the *majority of people* who seem to all want it to go up and expect significantly greater prices). Of course bitcoin cannot die, it's software, it can however be devalued by 200:1 and stagnate there perpetually until obscurity (worst case disaster scenario fundamental tech issue only, of course). I have a tinfoil cowboy hat somewhere out in the garage, so I wouldn't argue against the possibility of intentional suppression of the bitcoin price for geopolitical reasons, rather than for individual profit motive. I'd rather hope it's for profit reason and not political though, hedge fund managers/wealthy individuals are likely better for everyone to be the cause than governments/banks - the former will eventually or occasionally want upward movement, the latter would likely only want total failure.

I'll not guess as to what happens with halving, but I sure hope you're right and yeah definitely agree with you. And it's suuuuper obvious. They aren't even bothering to attempt to disguise the price suppression and haven't for a while. Aside from the consistent practically predictable dumps, I can't be the only one who notices the dozens of identical orders clogging the sell side (14,14, 7, 7, 14,14, 7, 14 lately) which occasionally flip to the buy side to suck up coins once sell momentum has been achieved. Will they be happy if/when they extract 10 million $ out of the market via shorting and drive the price back to $1 a coin, to then have the ability to own half of the entire market? Will they ever have enough coin to cease this activity?

There will be ongoing "fuck you market" dumps from now until the end of time, roughly on the hour every hour, between 100 and 5000 coins (they're clever though, and split their dumps into multiple quick succession orders so as to make it not quite so obvious to anyone new to the market) and resulting in $1-10 in 1-5 minute losses in global bitcoin price.

It's not early adopters who "need fiat money" in a "hurry". They already have more fiat than they know what to do with and don't dump in a non-stop systematic fashion (they'd long ago have been out of coins) nevermind that they'd be able to get more fiat money if they sold 500 coins over the course of 2 hours than in 2 minutes. And it's not the big industrial miners, most of them have private off market contract buyers. Clearly it's the shorters market makers market manipulators market fuckers take your pick. These people have a deranged obsessive need (and financial motive) to desperately always and repeatedly try to force the price ever lower regardless of what the current price is. Crush the market with 1000 coins (most often borrowed coins) in 1 minute, wiping out everything from current price and down $3 or $4, re-buy at the price you just forced the market to go down by, or more, if you successfully cause a downward cascade from other parties, still have 1000 coins plus an extra couple thousand dollars, repeat perpetually until bitcoin dies.

*oh lookie one just happened as I was typing, about an hour after the last one, and an hour after the previous one, and ...

No , they don't benefit more. And it shouldn't be a non-issue. They ignorantly shoot themselves in the foot again and again. This is exactly my point. They *believe* price will rise again *eventually* , so it's wrongly thought to be a non-issue for them - while allowing their coin to be used to suppress the price in the mean time for peanuts , against their own self interest.


Mostly I agree with your statement here , in that you didn't really state anything that's really incorrect. But , my point is that adding to the sell volume is counterproductive to anyone who wants the value of the coins they hold to go up. Not buying more single handedly is of course fundamentally different than deciding to not lend out the coins you already have bought to be shorted into the market. The decision to lend your coins you own would seem to not generally impact in a significant measure the decision of other people to buy - people will buy whether or not they're buying your coins directly from you or buying them from someone who borrowed them from you *but* if your intent is to hold anyway and , and this is key *want price to increase* , then you should neither sell nor lend your coins to be sold - both actions , selling or lending coins to be sold cause negative price pressure.


I disagree that additional lended sell volume is a neutral factor in price discovery , though yes it is correct that sell volume is increased as a result of lending out coins to be sold. That was a big factor of what I was arguing in the first place while connecting that to it contributing to a lower price - though you both seem to want to ignore that , to me , seemingly obvious and basic connection. Holding , not lending , and attempting to influence market price by convincing everyone to decide on a generally higher valuation are 3 completely different things. Holding can be done without lending. Selling can be done without lending. Lending is essentially an entirely different decision than selling or holding. And trying to convince others of a generally higher valuation really is a totally different concept.


*sigh* It makes me sad that people request a tiny sentence to be made out of a more complex godforbid long paragraph. The public education system and tv culture has failed us all. But here goes:

Lending bitcoins to be sold by others causes lower price , which is directly counterproductive to those very individuals who are lending their bitcoins out and want the price to ultimately go up.


Wow , was wondering if anyone else would agree that they also wouldn't have any desire to lend their bitcoin to shorters - thanks. Also , agree that of course leaving coins on shady chinese exchange platforms (aka all the ones that allow leveraging in the first place) is a bad and dangerous idea - to add to that , whether or not they are simply left in your account there , or left there as lended coin it is equally dangerous.


Cool to meet your acquaintance , rude dumbfuck. You'd be a lot happier if the price were 275 than 245 and you had 10 coins instead of 10.5 (hint , the first one is a bigger number , even if it's multiplied by fewer bitcoin). You'd also be a lot happier if you sold and rebought them lower yourself and kept all of your profits , instead of letting someone else do that for you in exchange for a significantly smaller gain. But hey , if you think allowing other people to use your coins to consistently jam the price down for you , and keep the lions share of short profits you could have had for yourself instead , in exchange for 1/2 of 1/10th of 1% and that's ridiculously high gain for you , then god help you , I can't and won't try further to do so.


Agree to disagree I guess , but really it comes down to how severely the price is suppressed and whether or not you lose greater than 0.05% per day as a result of your lending. You may be correct with that number , or you could be way off on daily interest gained vs actualized price loss. I am pretty sure that given daily whole percent 1 , 2 , 5 whatever full % swings occur , the rational lending rate to even expect to break even should be much much higher , given the expectation that your lended coins will be handed back to you devalued after they are used to dump into the market for sake of driving the price down.

Gee thanks for twisting and misinterpreting what I said while also making assumptions and trying to speak for me. I'm not saying everyone should work together to increase value. Not at all. And the hodl meme is fucking retarded. If you want to sell and make the price go down then friggin sell and make the price go down. I've got no problem with that whatsoever. And it's a perfectly valid thing to do to sell your coin with the intent of buying it back lower as many times as you'd like. Free market baby. For the win. The deal is - it's both financially and psychologically easier to dump a shitload of someone else's coins than your own. And to do it repeatedly. For a scant 5 or 10 % of the desired sell amount I can sell 100 % of whatever # I want to slam into the market using leverage. If people had to more often than not use their own coins to do that it's pretty simple that they'd be more careful about it , the amounts dumped at any 1 minute would likely be less severe , the frequency would be less constant , and they'd probably think twice about doing it in the first place if those coins were not borrowed in the first place , and in all likelihood prices would be higher by some amount. And I understand the basic financial reason(s) why people would want the price lower - either for obtaining more coin cheaper for your own self , or to repay your own bitcoin debt obligations after borrowing and shorting the market yourself for the sake of retaining greater individual profit. I get that. Even though I was obviously being hyperbolic with the 2000 or more valuation statement , which I probably should not have stated as I did for sake of not confusing the sarcasm impaired , and I do agree that most people myself included would probably say that's overvalued given current fundamentals and past market conditions , the market was above 1000 already albeit the result at least partially of goxfraud , and the market was above 500 for almost a year despite that and despite the shorters - so you really can't say that it definitely wouldn't be around there today if it weren't for non-stop wash repeat shorters constantly borrowing dumping buying back borrowing and dumping ad infinitum. I'm stating specifically that if you do possess bitcoin , and want the value of the coins that you have to go up , it is against your self interest to lend it to others , and indeed against the interest of everyone who possess a non-negative # of bitcoin aka those who already have open short bitcoin debt obligations. For that matter , even for the people who do want it to go down in value or expect that in the future , it *still* makes more sense to sell your own coins yourself rather than lend them out so they can be sold for you and let someone else keep your potential profits. I am actually , surprisingly , at a gain and not a loss therefore cannot blame others for losses I don't have. I am criticizing the stupid decision of others to lend out their coins against their own self interest , not blaming others for any of my decisions. I am impatient , so you got that right. 

Seriously ! If it wasn't for you numbnuts lending out 1000s of bitcoin all the time for 1/2 of a 1/2 of a percent interest we'd be at 500 or 1000 or 2000 or more *today* ! It's just fucking stupid ! And yes , I comprehend that there exists logical and less than entirely logical motivations to lend out bitcoin - 1: you want the price of bitcoin to go down , presumably for either the purpose of obtaining more of it for less money or because you're maliciously against the success of bitcoin for whatever reason 2: you think it'll be worth a buttload more than it is today and it must not even matter how badly or constantly it gets hammered lower for the time being so long as you can get a couple extra fractional percent of bitcoin and don't understand basic math it's all good. But if I had more than even 100 bitcoin hell even if I had less than 100 or even 10 bitcoin , and I wanted the price of my bitcoins to go up , there is NO WAY I'd be lending out any of it to people who *exclusively* use it to drive down and suppress the price. Seriously. If you want the price of the bitcoin you have to go up it makes a hell of a lot more sense really any sense at all to lend out dollars or yen or euros or whatever fiat you use - you get interest on your fiat *and* the borrowers have to use that money to buy low drive price up and sell higher than they bought thus increasing the price of the bitcoin you hold in the process - win win win. But if you're one of the people lending bitcoin on a regular basis pull your head out of your ass and think at all even a little bit about what you're actually doing. You are handing over your bitcoin to someone else , for the *sole purpose* of them dumping it into the market , buying it back at a lower price , and handing it back to you - devalued. When you get 0.02% or 0.05% or whatever interest on your lended coin , but they get handed back to you devalued by anywhere from 1-10% *you fucking lose* in fact *everyone loses* except for the person you willingly let screw over you and the entire bitcoin market ! FUCK ! If you have bitcoin , and you want it to go UP in value , don't fucking lend it to other people ! DUH ! Sorry I just had to say it. I can't be the only person thinking it.