CfB

Why can't the client deal with email verification, google authenticator or even cellphone SMS
Aren't all verifications just software that runs somewhere? Why can't that somewhere be the client?

Granted, to fully support it properly i would imagine that there would need to be some additional code in the core, but please explain your statement that it is impossible.

Client can send email i know this. Client can wait for confirmation. So if there were api calls that required aditional confirmations and this was made secure cryptographically, then at least the hacker would have to hack the email too instead of just the password. I am not clever enough to figure out how to make a cryptographically secure api call, but i imagine you or BCNext could do it

The way things are now a hacker can brute force search the entire password space and without specifically targeting anybody, targets everybody. The more nxt accounts that get funded, the more likely a hacker will stumble upon an acct.

This needs to be fixed for mass market adoption. Without it nxt value will not increase much from what it is now. There needs to be some additional layer of security that the person who creates the account can optionally enable. As it is now there is basically one nxt account and a hacker just has to be patiently mining passwords until he finds a funded account. How long does it take to see if an account exists?

If that can be done locslly on a computer, then some sort of massively parallel setup or server farm could search through trillions of accounts per second. What is the density of nxt accounts if there are one million nxt accts?

James

P.S. I am hoping this is one of the planted security flaws that was talked about. Otherwise it turns out there is mining of nxt after alll, randomly try passwords till you find a funded acct. do we really think petahashes of computing will not be aimed at all the juicy nxt accts? It doesn't matter if you never use your acct after funding it. It doesn't matter if you never use the password online if nxt accts can be mined with a brrute force search. Please tell me we can fix this

CfB,

How could we implement email confirmation for sending of NXT?
How long would google authenticator support take to implement?

Some sort of 2 factor authorization will be needed down the road. Without it, competitors will make sure to highlight each and every time somebody loses NXT. I do not know the different probabilities of BTC account being cracked vs NXT, but the public perception would be that if only NXT had two factor authentication, the loss wouldn't have happened.

James

Can anybody calculate 5% of the total transaction fees for yesterday?
What percentage of that was from alias and what percentage from NXT transfer fees?

James

I wouldn't think it would be that hard, but I think this is ferment's tool. You have to ask him. I think he is wanting to get a big chunk of the community fund!

James

You can use http://22k.io/-account/<your acct number here>

It shows all the raw data and is pretty useful

James

Zahlen,

Thanks for the feedback!
We are still in very early days so any estimate is going to be very rough, but I would not be surprised at an average interest rate of 10% to 30% per year.

We are not competing with banks at all, as even after 50% going to costs, it will net 5% to 15% per year.

The problem with small stakes is that even though statistically there is the same chance per NXT as a large stake, the reality of .0000001 probabilities is that realistically you probably won't forge a block for many years, when you do it will be a big lump sum, possibly more than your entire NXT balance!

Certainly the client is currently hard to use, but worse than that I read today about transparent mining allowing hackers to target the computer that will forge the next block. I am still trying to understand why transparent forging is a good thing in a way to explain it to "normal" people.

So, if you have  small stake and want to forge, you open yourself up to being DDosed by the evil forces, all this for a remote chance at forging a block. My guess is that most people will pass.

OK, so here is my idea. I am sure it is not quite right since I don't fully understand asset exchange. Assuming it is similar to a company issuing stock, and assuming it can continue issuing stock on an as needed basis, I propose a NXTmutualfund, each share in the NXTmutualfund will cost 1 NXT. Everyone that buys a NXTmutualfund share will get a prorata amount of the forging revenues from all the NXT as a dividend to their specified address, or you can select an automatic reinvestment program to purchase more shares with some or all of your NXT.

Depending on the total number of NXT that will be deposited, the payout will vary. I expect there will need to be a website with DDos protection, some sort of distributed wallet to make sure any password breach only affects a small percentage of the entire balance. Some accounting work to track accounts, balances, etc. Unless all of the work needed to achieve this is magically already in a single person, some reasonable percentage of NXT off the top for each actively involved person.

I've heard about multi-sig, so there could be a protection mechanism that requires multiple authorized signers to do anything with the deposited funds other than satisying withdrawal requests. We need to ask CfB how we can make the deposited funds as secure as possible without requiring onerous procedures.

My estimate is that unless there is a large enough amount of deposits (of currently unknown levels), it could easily eat up 50% of the fees. Maybe even the mid-sized stakeholders would want to participate. In that case, it could easily add up to 10 million NXT total and that should enough to lower the costs as a percentage of forging revenue. Maybe all the way down to 10%? Not sure.

So, any volunteers to create and/or manage the NXTmutualfund? This will answer people's objection that forging is only for the big accounts. Even accounts with 10 NXT would get the same interest rate as someone with 100,000 NXT. With the proper security measures, I could see even the larger stakeholders to be interested in this. A safe place to store NXT while earning almost as much forging fees as you would have if you solo-forged, without any of the hassles.

James

P.S. Happy New Year!

Bid price on ripple is 2.2XRP for NXT with 17000+ volume. That is roughly .00008 BTC so it is significantly higher than anywhere else. What this means is that you can get 10% more for your NXT by selling via https://peercover.com/#/simpleGateway

You don't need a peercover account, just a ripple address to deposit the NXT into and you can sell for .00008 when dgex price is less than .00007

There is a lot more demand for NXT in ripple than supply.

It is easy to get a ripple acct at https://ripple.com/client/#/register
Once you have that just select Deposit and NXT on the simpleGateway page and follow instructions. Deposit 17000 NXT and get 10% more than on dgex

James

I read some people saying that forging revenues won't amount to much for small stakeholders and that might be true for now, but forging creates the mechanism that allows community fund and also allows large investors to drool over a "mere 25%" per year return. I am working on a way for small stakeholders to pool their forging, but I can't figure out how to be able to distribute much more than 50%. Would that be enough to be worth implementing? Every small stakeholder would get a prorata share of their deposited NXT and the combined total forges for everyone.

James

P.S. I need to know what the smallest increment of NXT is, are we limited to 0.01 NXT, I know we can use colored coins to issue femto-NXT, but I am unclear on what the divisibility of NXT itself is, affects payout of small amounts.

landomata,

I think we are in agreement, we just need to clarify who the core developers are. I mean to say that jean-luc and the BCNext team, they are all presumably large NXT stakeholders and wouldn't insist on sharing in any of the community funds. If they really insisted, I would certainly think they deserve a cut, but I don't think they will.

Due to the extensible nature of NXT, if somebody creates a new extension then according to the math based incentive plan, that person would get 100% of the allocated NXT for the transaction fees that new feature added. I wasn't aware that someone not part of the core-dev team would be able to add new features directly into NXT.

We use common sense rules to determine who deserves a piece of the pie. To my mind somebody not on the core dev team that develops a new feature is adding value to the core dev team's work. It really doesn't matter if the code is inside the NXT code base, a separate tool, a website, getting fantastic press coverage, etc. ANYTHING that adds value, adds value. So then they would become eligible for peer voting.

For example I think ferment has done some work that deserves consideration to be part of the alias team but I am not smart enough to be able to allocate between what he has done and what wesleyh has done. As of now, it would be between them to allocate. When a third person contributes to alias usage, then they get to influence the allocation.

Math based incentives. They work!

I don't have final confirmation yet, but it is very likely that the community fund now has around 5% of all NXT pledged. That means that 5% of all forging revenues for the forseeable future will go toward math based incentives. Even if wesleyh has to share the community fund amount, it is now 5 times bigger! The NXT community is so amazing, I am so proud to be a part of it!

Assuming that all the founders eventually end up with 25% of their original stakes, the percentage of NXT that belong to the original proof of stake grant will be HALF that of ripple lab's 20%. Ripple did the smart PR thing of contributing to curing cancer. Now with the community fund, NXT founders are creating a never ending stream of math based incentives that maximize transaction fees spent which maximizes the value of NXT.

James

landomata,

I am assuming core developers have their millions of NXT and will happily continue adding cool core features. However a core feature usually needs a bit of extra to make it maximize transaction fees.

If people think wesleyh is being overcompensated by his earning thousands of NXT per <Tbd> then others will figure out how to monetize the alias feature too. The dev team will be happy that people are using NXT to make NXT more valuable, since they presumably have a lot of NXT. Let's say we end up with half a dozen key contributors to alias monetization and a dozen supporting contributors, as just arbitrarily say all key contributors deserver equal share and all supporting contributors deserve equal shre and supporting role is worth one quarter a key role.

We would have 6 + 3 = 9 total shares, which each of the half dozen key contributors getting 1/9th the alias group's allocation and the dozen supporting people would get 1/36th.

I made up half dozen, dozen and 4:1 ratio. Each specific company will probably have different number of participants and ratios. The important concept here is that if a certain core feature has a lot of potential and a person is clever enough to unlock it with additional work, then that person gets a windfall. Other people notice that and come up with additional ways until it gets to a point of diminishing returns and new untapped core features gets developed.

Decentralized, self-selectred parallel development with profit motive.

I think it makes sense and the best part is that almost all of it is based on math that can't be argued with. The only thing that is up for debate is a person's membership in a group. I can see an odd numbered council of CfB, jean-luc, etc. to decide on this issue if there is any controversy. I don't imagine we would get too many controversies as a person's contribution needs to be tied directly to generating transaction fees from a core feature.

James

landomata,

wesleyh's share would be (daily forged amount of total community NXT fund) * (percentage of overall revenue alias fees are) since the day he released the plugins.

Currently that is ~1% of ____ per day

When we get DNS functionality he will share it with the ones who implement DNS. Probably costs for real work DNS hosting would come off the top of Aliascompany NXT

This way we can quantify each person's contribution to the community, instead of guessing what each feature is worth. Of course, nothing stops people from sending their NXT to people who are already getting community funds.

James

landomata,

I don't think it makes sense to entangle things like that. Modular design is important in software and also incentive design.

I am envisioning that there will be founders and massive NXT early adopters who pledge a prorata share of their forging income. This can be public or private or anonymous.

Note that if someone with 50 million NXT pledged the forging revenue from 10 million NXT, they would actually send 20% of their overall forging revenue, essentially creating a forging pool of their own NXT.

So there is the community fund account that receives regular (weekly or monthly) payments from the participating donors. Some trusted person in the community runs this fund and a separate entity, the IPOcompany would calculate who should get what based on voting results submitted by each group.

The only subjective number is each groups voting results and that would be the responsibility of each group. The rest is totally calculatable with relatively simple blockchain analysis.

Now, whether each group decides to be a private group and receive 100% of their NXT upon disbursement or to each own shares in a NXTcompany and have the company get 100% of the NXT or anything in between, that would be a matter for each group.

Since we can start this right now without adding the IPOshares complexity, I suggest we start a dry run and calculate how much wesleyh should get. As we get more and more contributors and more and more groups,it will clarify as to which ones are on a large growth path and would benefit from the IPO process.

James

ebrelus,

I think you missed aldrin's post about his plan of divesting 75% of his founder NXT and then pledging 100% of his remaining 1% of NXT's forging revenue to a community fund.

If this is the average behavior of NXT founds,that means 75% of NXT will be distributed into the early adopters and that the initial concentration of 40% in a dozen(?) full 1BTC founders will be down to 10%

That is less than Ripple Lab's percentage of XRP and with their curing cancer angle, people aren't complaining so much about the 20%.

so with half the Ripple Labs percentage and 100% of income from that diminished percentage funding community activities that mathematically reward people in direct correlation to their contribution in boosting NXT valuations, how exactly is there an image problem?

Contrary to an image problem, NXT has created a nice balance between the wealthy and the rest. BCNext is the one who made the founders wealthy by giving away millions of dollars of software to the founders. That was his right. It is done. Now the founders are selling the vast majority of their shares and giving away 100% of their future income so the early adopters can earn NXT.

Just communicate what is happening, there will be no image problem that I see. On the contrary, the truth of what is happening will be very positive.

James

Well, for the NXTalias company we have wesleyh and I am sure others now who feel deserving of a share of the NXTalias pie.

aldrin has pledged his 1% stake's forging output. This is such a fantastic thing that it makes all of this possible.

to make this more real, we need to have the following:


a) Calculation of total forging revenues based on NXT pledged to community fund. This acts as a surrogate of pooled mining, instead people contributed to increasing transaction fees and get a prorata share of big NXT pool

b) percentage distribution of a) for each different method of transaction fee generation. I think right now it is sending fees and alias fees.

c) Nomination of people who should split up the allocation of b)

d) peer voting of all properly nominated people in c) to determine each person's share. Eg. each person has a fixed number of points they can give to each other person other than themselves. Tally up each person's total to get their percentage of the NXT.

In math we trust.

I will be happy to be arbiter for whatever issues require arbiting. As long as the voting is by public post, it will eliminate collusions and we all know who the heavy lifters are.

James

P.S. I think someone in the NXTIPO company should do most of the above as the NXT represents profits directly attributable for a group and makes an excellent starting point for company profit reports which allow for investor valuation of NXTcompanies in general. Maybe each NXTcompany would allocate some percentage of their NXT to the NXTIPO company for this?

regardless of whether peercoin can prove that it isn't a depreciating asset (doubtful), I don't think it can be extended beyond its current payment system feature.

Comparing peercoin to NXT is like comparing a compuserve-clone to the internet. Comparing bitcoin to NXT is like comparing compuserve to the internet, except the internet pays dividends and compuserve doesn't

James

P.S. for those who don't know about compuserve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

For those of you who think having NXT buyback plan is somehow wrong, I say that is how a lot of major corporations manage their stock price. Ever heard of stock buyback programs?

As a community, we don't want to have large volatility. A certain amount is unavoidable, but if we as a community can create a floor that continues to move up as valuation and market price moves up, then I (and many others) will be able to attract large value investor money into NXT. I am also working on a plan to allow for off book block transactions of NXT. This way a founder can move 1 million NXT without changing the market price at all.

We do need to have some organization layered on top of the wonderful chaos to make sure that the most significant producers are properly rewarded. I trust in math. We can count each feature's transaction fees. We can allocate who contributed to generating those transaction fees by extra work on top of core devs. Each feature oriented group gets allocated a prorata amount of NXT from community fund forging. Peer group can vote on the percentage of allocated NXT each contributor should get.

NXT is for intelligent investors
NXT pays dividends
NXT community increases dividends

1NXT == 1BTC is the possibility here. I have a plan to achieve this. I have described it. With just a small overlay to the current pure chaos, we can have this.

James

Peercoin might 1% interest, but doesn't it create 1% inflation by issuing new coins to issue the 1%. Also as it is mined that dilutes value so inflation rate seems to be much more than 1%

1% interest minus 1%+ inflation is negative interest and makes peercoin a depreciating asset. I could be wrong about peercoin as I have not studied it in depth, looking forward to hearing from someone who understands it better

NXT pays positive dividend, no inflation. big difference

James

CfB,

The valuation of 1BTC = 47.62 NXT is purely based on scarcity of each as a ratio.
The reason it is not there yet is due to premium BTC gets for being BTC and discount NXT has due to it not being accepted by the public. It would be much lower if it were not for the premium NXT has due to it being NXT!

Even assuming NXT won't get a premium because of all its advantages, the primary differentiating advantage that it is the ONLY crypto that pays dividends. This does not matter so much when there are only two ways to generate transaction fees, but if we end up having daily referendums on whether to vote or not, the velocity of NXT could increase dramatically and this will boost the dividend ratio.

Still working on how to tie in future cashflows of NXT to specific dollar value. Have a few ideas on how this can be achieved to create valuation floors each time NXT doubles in highest market price. Kind of like mining difficulty increases each time a certain block is hit, the floor value of NXT will be increased each time it hits a new market high, as long as there is enough liquidity in that new high price and we have a significant enough percentage of NXT holders commit to a NXT buyback. Eg, sell NXT at high price and then commit to repurchase NXT, if it ever goes to 50% of that price.

This effectively creates a floor in the cash value of NXT, eg. NXT/USD price. Then I can integrate the future forging revenues to have a different multiplier for differnent time horizons. Multiply that by floor cash value to create a lower bound on NXT valuation.

So, if we can get 50% of NXT holders to sign up for this sell high, commit to buy low plan, nexern can update the blockchain website with an estimated cash value for NXT. Apply the then current NXT/BTC rate to get an estimated NXT/BTC fair market value rate.

If we can use the community fund to payout its forging output to NXTcompanies (peer teams) based on transaction fees generated (allocated by peer voting!), we will have a decentralized mechanism that will maximize the future forging revenues, which maximized NXT valuation.

As soon as we get several hundred thousand NXT users, I imagine the discount of not being BTC will be balanced by the premiums from being NXT, so the 47:1 ratio

As soon as people realize that NXT automatically issues dividends and reinvests it in itself so that compound interest kicks in AND that there are thousands of actively working people boosting the future forging revenues, the price of NXT will decouple from BTC. Basically, when the calculated future forging revenues multiplied by the price floor exceeds the 47:1 ratio, NXT will not be tethered to anything except the number of NXT users.

I have not figured out the percentage of GDP we get per new person that uses NXT, but ultimately NXT valuation will be tied to the number of active users and the percentage of their economic activity that is done within NXT, eg. NXTGDP. Will 1% of the people use NXT for 10% of their spending? if so that means 0.1% of world economy will be NXTconomy when we get ~70 million NXT users.

I think world economy is in the hundred trillion dollar range, so that would give NXT a reasonable market cap of hundred billion, eg. 5NXT = 1 BTC

James

I think aldrin's idea is fantastic!
It provides long term funding for the NXTconomy
It also creates a way to implement the NXTcompany idea. The value of NXT will be tied to the amount of transaction fees that are generated. The more transaction fees the higher the price of NXT

By forming peer staffed groups around each NXT feature, each feature will get the best chance to generate the transaction fees.

Right now we have the alias feature, but what happens when we have dozens of features? How will people even know which features exist, what they can do with it, why they should? That is the function of the NXTcompany, to promote its feature. Staffed by a self-selected group of peers, it will be run in a decentralized way.

The problem before aldrin's community fund was that there was no way to give independent value to each NXTcompany. Now there is. Very simply just track the transaction fees each feature is generating.

Now there is no need to vote on what is best, that is subjective votes by random people. Let the NXTconomy decide which NXTcompany is worth the most, simply by adding up the transaction fees.

Trust in math. The more transaction fees the better. The community is served by having as many features actively promoted to maximize total transaction fees.

The staff of each company could simply divide up the community fund distribution, or the company could list as an IPO and the community funds can be distributed to the company shareholders, or some hybrid.

Let's take the alias feature as an example. The recently released plugin is certainly super enabling and I believe the creator of the plugin be the charter member of the NXTalias company. As it is, he is the only one that has done more than buy aliases, so he would get 100% of the community funds allocation for all alias generated transaction fees. Clearly a nice reward for whoever does the plugin for the browser. Each browser has a market share, so if there are multiple plugins, then allocate by browser market share

The benefits to NXT valuation will be tremendous if we can create an incentive system that is directly aligned to maximizing the value of NXT. aldrin's community fund allows the actualization of the NXTcompany concept.

Thank you aldrin!

James

does anybody have the latest list of servers? I can´t find it