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621  Local / Ελληνικά (Greek) / EU: Παράνομες οι συναλλαγές από non-custodial wallets on: March 23, 2024, 05:44:26 PM
Απ' ότι φαίνεται, θα είμαστε επίσημα εγκληματίες μέσα στα επόμενα τρία χρόνια: https://twitter.com/echo_pbreyer/status/1770853127798861868.

Όπως καταλαβαίνετε, είναι γελοίοι οι άνθρωποι, αλλά ήταν θέμα χρόνου μέχρι να γινόταν. Το να ασχοληθούν με καθέναν από εμάς που χρησιμοποιεί BTC και XMR σαν peer-to-peer cash, λίγο δύσκολο, όπως δύσκολο είναι και με τα μετρητά. Αυτό που θα καταφέρουν, τουλάχιστον όπως το βλέπω εγώ, είναι να αποθαρρύνουν καταστήματα στο να τα δέχονται σαν μεθόδους πληρωμής.
622  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Decentralized whirlpool! on: March 23, 2024, 09:47:50 AM
Exactly. The extra small round sizes in Whirlpool makes it far easier to attack than coinjoins that include hundreds of coins into one round.
But, far more difficult and expensive the more the victim remixes.

Wouldn't it be concerning if it was only one premixer? One remixer isn't going to harm.

- If the other four premixed inputs belong to an attacker, then they know the respective remixed UTXO, which isn't crucial in and of itself; it'd be if they could work out the remixed input's past.
- If less than four premixed inputs belong to an attacker, then they know even less than that.

In other words, it can harm if the remixer has only participated in attacker's coinjoins where there was only one remixer.

This fee does nothing when the attacker is also the coordinator.
I was talking about Samourai's coordinator.
623  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Trezor's Twitter (X) Account Hacked on: March 22, 2024, 08:54:09 PM
I have made this step 2 years ago. No more social media for me. I love it now, but it was difficult back then. These apps are designed to be addictive.
Yep. Especially if your communication depends on them, more or less...

All I am saying is that you have put effort in order to acquire some knowledge, but the majority of people on twitter haven't put effort at all.
There are some good accounts to follow, like lopp, aantonop, SamouraiWallet etc. But, I don't follow lots of Bitcoin accounts for the reasons you outlined. Especially random accounts that are into Bitcoin solely for the fiat gains. (I do get them on recommendations though, because... Twitter)
624  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Trezor's Twitter (X) Account Hacked on: March 22, 2024, 08:29:34 PM
Good luck man. In my short X life, which lasted approximately 2 days, I was surprised by how much lack of basic knowledge existed there.
Eh, I don't say I like it. I just prefer it over Instagram and Facebook. I know that I have to cut social media off my life entirely, but it's difficult. Sometimes after work I just want to relax for a few minutes scrolling on Twitter or YouTube shorts, it ain't that bad, even though I don't hide from you that I feel bad when 20-30 minutes are passed like really fast and I'm just staring at my phone.

To be clear, I don't have any issues with the laser-eyed avatars, I kinda like it too, but I hate it when people pretend they know something, instead of reading or listening in order to get a more solid grasp of how bitcoin works.
I don't like (but nor hate) the laser-eyes thing either, but wasn't that a thing of the past? I don't remember the last time that I saw a laser eye, to be honest. Maybe Michael Saylor still has that?

I hope that people like you will eventually convey the correct message on X and that you will be able to educate as many people as you can.
You flatter me, but I'm no expert! Just a hobbyist, like everyone else.  Smiley
625  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Trezor's Twitter (X) Account Hacked on: March 22, 2024, 08:03:04 PM
Out of curiosity, don't you all think that X (Twitter) has a strong potential to become the no. 1 scamming / hacking / faking website?
It already is. As long as advertisers are willing to pay X a decent amount, they will be approving their advertisement. I'd recently installed X, and the shitcoin shilling is massive. DeFi, meme tokens, yield promising platforms, fake URLs, etc., it's a scam-land. And I wished it was just advertisers; just put an adblock and problem solved. But, there are endless bots which shill the same and even worse stuff in the comments (even NSFW).
626  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Trezor's Twitter (X) Account Hacked on: March 22, 2024, 05:37:37 PM
I don't know what to believe anymore. Was it a security mistake of Trezor or is Twitter a security nightmare now more? We hear accounts getting hacked frequently since Musk bought it. It has been compromised before that, with millions of users having their email addresses leaked, but now it happens more systematically, targeted on compromising influential accounts. It doesn't seem as if all these accounts simply chose to not use a 2FA.
627  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Decentralized whirlpool! on: March 22, 2024, 04:22:02 PM
It doesn't matter whether the attacker is able to choose their round since there's no additional cost to participate in a remix, all rounds the attacker is chosen to participate in adds to their data set.
In Whirlpool, the coinjoin is consisted of three remixers and two premixers, meaning that for every new coinjoin, two new entrances are required to begin, which will be joined with three already mixed coins. This means that if an attacker wants to de-anonymize a coinjoin, they need to have at least three remixed coins and another premixed coin (in the same round!), so that they can see where the premixer victim's coin ends up.

But, to be a premixer you need to pay the entrance fee in each coinjoin, which is quite high to discourage that particular attack. And the more the remixes the honest user does, the more expensive this attack becomes, because the more entrances the attacker has to pay.

I don't see how this is vulnerable.
628  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 22, 2024, 09:52:12 AM
So in the end the exactly didn't matter and I guessed this was why after this:

Pr (3 block) = 1 - (Pr( ≤2 block) + Pr (>3 block))
I still got the same 0.06133 which is roughly same as the 0.06131
But you're calculating exactly three in here. If P(block=3) = 1 - {every other possibility than P(block=3)), then you're calculating for exactly three. If you wanted to calculate for at least three, you would work out P(block >= 3), which is just 1 - P(block = 0) - P(block = 1) - P(block = 2) = 0.080302 ~= 8%.

Another fun fact. The probability of not finding any block for 10 minutes is the same as finding exactly one block; about 36.8%.

I wanted to check reality to see how often this occurred (start with Bitcoin block data available in CSV format, and download time.txt), but there is no accurate data on block times. In some cases the block time moves backwards.
That will be a little difficult. Block times are not accurate, as rightly said. Your best source of information is debug.log (in which it is written when your node received the blocks). But it won't be accurate either, because hashrate does not remain constant for a long time.
629  Other / Meta / Re: Should speculation about satoshi's identity be subject to doxxing rules? on: March 21, 2024, 10:31:09 PM
Satoshi might be reading our posts, laughing hard but with a little bit sadness while listening to Lana Del Ray's Summertime Sadness (slowed & reverb) at low volume. I would be happy!
Summertime sadness? Come on, be more optimistic. The guy is a freaking secret billionaire, and if he lives for another decade or two, he might even be a trillionaire. And nobody will know it. Another level of flexing.  Tongue

Speculation about Satoshi, for me, looks like a speculation about why do we exist in this world. These questions will never be answered, discussion about them is just fun activity.
Probably because the popular candidates haven't convinced you of being Satoshi. But, if you start searching, you might realize something you didn't know. And yes, it's reasonable that we don't know everything about Satoshi. Only a few speculators who dedicated endless hours on searching for his identity have gathered everything in one place. And maybe even they have lost a tiny detail which is waiting to be found.

It certainly isn't philosophy.
630  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Decentralized whirlpool! on: March 21, 2024, 10:21:22 PM
Good to see them going in that direction.

For example, is there any mechanism to protect against de anonymization by sybil attack?
I'm looking forward to see how sybil attacks will be discouraged in the case where the attacker launches (or bribes) a coordinator. At the moment, Whirlpool discourages by not allowing you to select which round to join. Round selection is random. But, this is trust-requiring to Samourai users, as far as I understand.

Whirlpool is uniquely vulnerable to Sybil attacks since the attack victims pay the mining fees of the attacker.
Care to elaborate? The attacker can't remove them from the coinjoin or join a round of their choice. They must keep spending coins until they join the round they want. How is that vulnerable?
631  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: [VOTING PHASE OPEN] 🥧 Bitcointalk Pie Baking Contest (2nd Edition) 🥧 on: March 21, 2024, 09:53:03 PM
Bitcointalk Account: BlackHatCoiner
My vote goes to: Mame89 (very good look!), 8rch7 (I feel like this got a great taste), GazetaBitcoin ($68k per piece, pricey!).
632  Other / Meta / Re: Only Bitcoin related posts are allowed in Local Languages Section? on: March 21, 2024, 09:41:53 PM
This might be irrelevant, but in our Greek board no topic was deleted with the justification of being "unrelated to Bitcoin" (and nor should it be, in my opinion). At least, not in the past four years that I've been active. (Our mod is inactive about two years now, but I presume others could respond to reports)

Yeah... I always found this title a bit misleading as well...
633  Other / Meta / Re: Should speculation about satoshi's identity be subject to doxxing rules? on: March 21, 2024, 08:09:58 PM
I wouldn't say that people are disrespecting Satoshi's privacy, because in reality nothing is known about his privacy.
I used to agree with this, but after I read some research that was conducted back in 2013 (and which didn't go viral for some reason), I consider it a lot more probable than before that he is the one I think he is. Nothing is known about Satoshi particularly, but if you start excluding candidates, you're most likely going to end up to one suspect (assuming he belonged to the known to all cryptographic community). This is the last resort to de-anonymize someone, and it's succeeded to an extent.
634  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 21, 2024, 06:04:04 PM
Mia Chloe is right. Mining is a Poisson process. One important characteristic of a Poisson process, is that it is memoryless; whether a block was found recently or not, does not give us a clue about the likelihood that another block will be found soon. Whether the last block was mined 2 hours ago or 10 minutes ago, the probability of mining a block within the next 10 minutes remains the same. (Of course, under the assumption that hashrate is constant and blocks are mined every 10 minutes on average)

As displayed in Wikipedia, the formula is: P{N = n} = Λn * e / n!, where:
- n: the number of blocks to find within 10 minutes
- Λ: the number of blocks you would expect to find in 10 minutes.

For n=3, Λ=1, we get 0.0613132, or 6.13%.

The C++ code that implements it is the following:
Code:
#include <iostream>
#include <cmath>
using namespace std;

// constant number 'e'
const double Euler = std::exp(1.0);

// return x^y
int power(int x, int y){
    if(y == 0 && x != 0) return 1;
    int i, z = x;  
    for(i = 0; i < y; i++)
        z *= z;

    return z;
}

// factorial of integer x
int fact(int x){
    if(x == 0) return 1;
    
    int i, factorial = 1;
    for(i = 1; i <= x; i++)
        factorial *= i;

    return factorial;
}

int main(){
    // P{N = n} = Λ^n * e^-Λ / n!
    // n: number of blocks to find within given time frame
    // Λ or lambda: number of blocks you would expect to find in 10 minutes

    int n = 3, lambda = 1;
    double P = power(lambda, n) * pow(Euler, -lambda) / fact(n);
    
    cout << P << endl;
}

Just compile with "g++ -o mining mining.cpp" and run with "./mining".

See how abruptly improbable it becomes as you increase n.
Code:
For n=3, Λ=1, P=0.0613132
For n=4, Λ=1, P=0.01532830
For n=5, Λ=1, P=0.00306566
For n=6, Λ=1, P=0.000510944
For n=7, Λ=1, P=0.00000729
635  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 20, 2024, 05:13:37 PM
The probability of mining a new block every 10 minutes is about 1/10 or 10% on average.
This is incorrect, and thus, so is everything that follows. Binomial probability is not the method to compute it either.

It seems newbies aren't allowed to send a picture here because I did my calculations in my notebook as it would have been easier for me to drop a picture of my calculations. I may be wrong though with my answer but am delighted to participate.
I would be glad to see your calculations! Drop them in talkimg and post them as a link (since you're prohibited to posting images).

The chance of having exactly three blocks mined in 10 minutes is 0.001
It is not. You can verify by checking the blockchain. 0.001 is 0.1%, which means that three blocks in 10 minutes would have to be mined only once in 1000 times. By checking the three most recent blocks (835552, 835553 and 835554), I can see that they were all mined within 10 minutes. If you go a little past that, blocks 835541, 835540, 835539 and 835538 were all mined within 10 minutes! I'm sure you will find more such cases, a lot more frequently than once in 1000.

Using this formula I got 0
It can be 0... That's a fact.
I just gave two recent examples. How can it have zero probability?
636  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 20, 2024, 01:59:43 PM
If 3 blocks was mined 10 minutes, that means each transaction would be mined within  1/10^3 and 0.0027 per transaction.
1/10^3 gotten from the λ and the 0.0027 is 1/10^3
These are some non-understandable math. Why 10^3, how did you work out 0.0027 and what does it mean?

We know the formula of probability is :- possibility=  (Number of favorable outcomes of events / Number of possible outcomes)
That's not the correct formula to use. Your formula makes sense in finite sets. For example, the odds of getting an even number from a dice roll.
Code:
{Total of even integers from 1 to 6} / {Total integers from 1 to 6} = 3 / 6 = 0.5

The set of all possible outcomes in the Bitcoin network within 10 minutes is infinite.



Before I unveil the answer, I want to leave the thread for a few hours. Maybe someone wants to correct the replies above. 
637  Other / Meta / Re: Should speculation about satoshi's identity be subject to doxxing rules? on: March 20, 2024, 01:16:55 PM
Why should it be dangerous to know who Satoshi is?
First and foremost? Because he's probably a secret billionaire.

Is Vitalik Buterin in danger since we know that he created ETH?
Yes. A lot.  Cheesy I think I've only seen him once being in a non-conference room, and that was with bodyguards surrounded.

Is SEC chairman in danger since we know he is the chariman? Is JP Morgan CEO in danger? Is Elon Musk in danger because we know that he owns Tesla?
Yes... They are all rich and public figures? However, I don't see how is that relevant with the question. Satoshi (or the person behind that name) is not a public figure.

Satoshi didn't create anything wrong or illegal, so why should he be in danger even if his full name and photo becomes available? By the way, no one can obtain that, he is probably dead, only god knows.
Has it crossed your mind that Satoshi might be alive and sitting on top of a billion worth of bitcoin?
638  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 20, 2024, 11:36:34 AM
P=1/3
P=0.33
Or 33.33%
Sometimes, for more than 10 minutes, no block is found. So, the probability of finding one block within the next 10 minutes is not 100%.  Wink
639  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #1 on: March 20, 2024, 11:15:02 AM
New quiz!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5489635.0
640  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / [Quiz] Answer the Bitcoin question and earn merits! #2 on: March 20, 2024, 11:14:28 AM

Short introduction for anyone who missed the first quiz:
I decided to start these forum quiz-series, where I'll be asking questions of educational character, to improve the average user's knowledge around Bitcoin. The questions will mostly be technical and historical. To create an incentive, I will generously merit the first person who replies with the correct answer. If that is not good enough incentive, I'll create a leaderboard!

  • Your answer needs to be explanatory. Not just a yes-no or a single number.
  • If nobody finds the answer until the cut-off date, I will submit it.
  • Have fun! It's a game.  Smiley

The first question was a tribute to the whitepaper. Now let's see how good we are at math.



Question: What is the chance of having exactly three blocks mined within the next 10 minutes? You can assume that a new block is mined every 10 minutes on average.

Cut-off date: 27/03/2024.
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