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Will go down much more, wait and buy.
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You have to find the contact of Japan's public porsecutors to make a formal acusation/complaint, then they will investigate if they should.
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Maybe this helps. After a month of silence, today I had communication with MtGox.
(I have a small amount of money there.)
But I was surprised to receive a personal mail, out of the blue.
Maybe its gonna live again, I hope for you all!
It seems it will, but by holding people funds against their will. |
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You will NOT be able to withdrawal from Gox even when they resume it:
"At the beginning we will do so at a moderated pace and with new daily/
monthly limits in place to prevent any problems with the new system and to take
into account current market conditions. "
They will put enough limits to avoid people moving their funds somewhere else for safety. Actually that's the only reason they are currently holding fiat currency, and it is at least morally wrong if not illegal.
"At the beginning " you read as several months.
"current market conditions. " you can understand as their own condition;
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I just wanted to make clear that it depends of private action. The State wont do that on their own as your post was suggesting. I don't know of any case, do you know of any case that a lawyer was hired? If not, you just could not expect to hear " "it's clear that FOOCORP has defrauded you of X amount of these bitcoins so FOOCORP shall now return those X bitcoins or the amount of Y USD which is the equivalent as of today", it just can't happen by itself. You keep saying that people can hire a lawyer and get their bitcoins or equivalent value returned, but you are not aware of a single case where this has happened. Conversely we are all aware of cases where judges have ruled that some company owes someone else some money when it was USD they were fighting over.
You don't seem to realise how big a deal it would be to the bitcoin community the day that a judge actually says, "it's clear that FOOCORP has defrauded you of X amount of these bitcoins so FOOCORP shall now return those X bitcoins or the amount of Y USD which is the equivalent as of today"
Until that actually happens, it seems far from clear to me that "they are equivalent" in the eyes of the law of the US, let alone Japan, and I can fully understand anyone who believes they are legally safer to argue over USD rather than BTC. There is a very long list of massive thefts of BTC and a list of precisely zero entries of people who got legal remedy for that.
In the case of MtGox my personal belief is that if they walk away with the funds, no one will get anything back, in any currency, except maybe Yen.
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The people who work in the hosting company?
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So what you're saying is that despite your assertion that bitcoins and fiat are equally easy to return with the help of the law, you aren't personally aware of any case where bitcoins or their fiat equivalent have been.
They are not "equally easy", because it is just not easy to have anything returned! Smart insolvent people disapear with everything, even real estate. Have been returned? No, i'm not aware. But if you hire a lawyer and can prove what belongs to you, the only chance of not having it returned is if the individual/or company does not really have it or can't be found. Bitcoins are easier to "disapear", actually one can just deny having any, but then you have a right for the equivalent money anyway or a property that can be auctioned to pay it. |
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money is not nominal, the risk is the same. The legal process to recover money or bitcoins(or the equivalent in fiat) is the same, but bitcoins are worthing more than gox fiat.
Okay, can you point to an example of a US business prosecuted for any form of fraud and as a result having bitcoins (or USD equivalent funds) returned to their US-based customers? Hopefully you agree that we need not hunt for examples of US businesses being legally compelled to return USD, as this is fairly common. Since you seem to be asserting that the process is the same, and since there have been many cases of stolen bitcoins, there should be many examples of people getting their bitcoins back through legal means, right? Then there is the extra wrinkle that MtGox is based in Japan, of course, but let's start with the easy case of US business and US customers. We need to find who hired a lawyer... Those cases usually are of "private law", it means you have to hire a lawyer, it is up to you only. Even when one of those cases that fit "public law", the State will only do criminal investigation and consequent prosecution(if the individual or company is formally accused), you still need a lawyer to get your money back. |
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Trading on MtGox is based on the risk of the exchange shuting down vs the risk of it coming back to life. If it shuts down, it is better to have the committed funds in fiat, if it comes back to life then it is better to have your funds in bitcoin. Insiders at MtGox know what the outcome will be and are probably capitalizing on the information.
That's a wrong thinking, money is not nominal, the risk is the same. The legal process to recover money or bitcoins(or the equivalent in fiat) is the same, but bitcoins are worthing more than gox fiat. |
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I personally think MTGOX should have had a rather obvious announcement letting new comers know the time it takes to withdrawal. Instead of allowing them to deposit and then locking up their funds for months.
This very tactic is why I call MTGOX scum.
They are nothing transparent, and behave like we can only suspect of illegal behaviour. If they are doing nothing morally wrong it still only their fault for ruining their company(i believe it will have to close its doors once withdrawal is allowed, if ever), simple full transparecy and minimal customer care could have saved them. WTF was the guy in the snow? I would ask him to enter and take a cofee even if i was scamming him! |
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Seriously, how one explain Mark owning the domain in january 2008?
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Whoever registered bitcoin.org is probably Satoshi, but the whois data is protected.
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Until yesterday i was trusting MtGox, but because i had not noticed something obvious:
If the bitcoin transaction bug is the problem, why there is a need to block fiat withdrawal? There is absolutely no legit reason.
Bitstamp blocked bitcoin withdrawal only as it should.
There is something VERY WRONG.
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If your money is already there, there is no reason to not buy.
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O valor está é muito alto, movido a especulação. 100 dólares já estava muito alto. A demanda não especulativa de bitcoin não justica nem os 100.
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Alguem já transferiu dinheiro do Bradesco para algum exchange internacional?
Qual foi a cotação do dolar?
Tem alguma taxa?
Alguma burocracia?
Obrigado
Não faz isso que você se ferra. Tenho bons ganhos com google api e foi feita uma transferência do google para mim via Bradesco, resultado: Cotaram como dolar turismo e ainda morderam 65%, claro, processei, fechei a conta no banco e estou movimentando Caixa Econômica, eles não sobretaxam, cotam como dólar comercial e são ágeis! Não entendi bem, você fez uam transferencia SWIFT direto da sua conta bradesco, ou usou algum tipo de conta do Google? E que mordida é essa de 65%?? |
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I don't know the law in Japan, but by commom sense(and law) , the law should be on your side. That's misappropriation. But i doubt they or even the justice would give the full balance to you, however they have to give your friends deposit back to your friend. And you get your $500.
That scary that they did not offered such simple solution even if they close your account later. It seems very risky to have money on MtGox.
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sigh... my father says this about precious metals, that there are 'hidden hands' suppressing the price. No, it's called supply and demand. When 2% of the users hold 60% of the bitcoins something like this is always a possibility. Forget the fact that major exchanges aren't doing withdraws right now.
Yes it's being manipulated. I'll humor you and tell you what you want to hear. Everyone should just hold so it goes to $10,000 and we all live happily ever after. The end.
I want my $100 per coin price so I have a vested interest in watching it go down. Everyone should want it to go down... the lower it goes and the more of the coin gets out of these bitcoin millionaires the better the base we will establish. People who got in at $1000 for the first time... sucks to be you.. that's life... you bought during a bubble. Live with it.
hahahhaaaa if you buy at $100 and it goes to $0.00001, how will you feel? BTC, has true value at this stage in it's development at about $400, everything else is diversified hype, so I agree $100 would be a steal, but if it goes below $400 I will have my shopping care ready to fill it long before it reaches $100 (of course hoping it does a Uie before it gets there. How are you calculating this bold claim? |
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it is not one big whale, the transaction volume is very high
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