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6201  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 27, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
Fiat leaks slowing EVEN MORE money coming in 10,000 BTC an hour in money coming in.

It hit close on 7000 just before the 1000 mark and it's accelerating.

There will be no pulling back you, we will seriously overshoot 1000 IMO  

hah!

For every coming in, there is as much going out.
6202  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 27, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
Now here's something you don't want to do, a man in Wales has accidentally thrown out his hard drive which has his bitcoin wallet with 7500BTC on it, it's now buried somewhere in a landfill site:  
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/the-4million-bitcoin-treasure-hunt-newport-wales-computer-hard-drive-thrown-out-with-rubbish-133041090.html

The stupidity was not making a backup.

You know there have to be more than a few wallets full of BTC sitting on hard-drives on computers in second-hand stores and pawn shops. I look forward to hearing some interesting stories.

A friend lost a relative recently who got on the btc bandwagon in 2010, the guys widow doesn't even know what bitcoin is. He died Saturday night, friends been trying to decide how to approach the wife about recovering them for her. I imagine lot's of these types of stories will come out over the following years!

Tell him to do it soon. People act hastily in grief. She may give the computer to a nephew or something.

One of our Partners had been in Bitcoin since late 2012. He died unexpectedly early 2013, and we suggested the widow certain measures of Bitcoin recovery. She refused, saying, that despite she had heard him constantly talking about it, it is unlikely that he had any or that it would matter.
6203  Economy / Speculation / Re: Price down to 1.25 - How low will it go? on: November 27, 2013, 04:16:32 PM
I think the exponential decay model explains this rather well. The mean half-life is approximately 3.5 months, which means that the current rate of decay is a little bit ahead of itself.
6204  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 27, 2013, 02:40:29 PM
If that site is any indicator at all, then... Chinese are waking up.

No. The coins are flowing from China to west right now. Check the prices. Coins flow from cheap places to the expensive ones.
6205  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 27, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
Today's been quiet. The tide of bitcoins has changed so that they are now flowing from BTC China to Mt.Gox and Bitstamp, to be sold (this is evidenced by the negative spread). The western appetite for bitcoins can thus be satisfied at these higher prices.

Whereas China wanted to buy bitcoins from us in the early stages of the rally (+ the pop and the crash after that), now as prices seem permanently higher, they sell them back. Good for them!  Cheesy

I have been thinking what to do with the newfound wealth. Currently it seems prudent to buy a castle/manor house to be a second apartment, and keep the rest of the gains as a fiat position, which can be used in all kinds of trading activities, doing arbitrage etc. Then perhaps buy a new car if there are nice models available (last summer it was white Audi A7 that I was interested in). I already have a large stash of precious metals, several safes and a vault. (The castle would add another vault.)

Taking care of my own affairs is quite time-consuming; I just felt that the time was right to solidify the old world position while keeping the supermajority of the bitcoins. Some have said that they do not want any non-portable wealth no matter how expensive bitcoin gets. That is fine. I am more concerned about those that want to be rich, but do not understand what it takes. Currently, the positions to become rich are still available for everyone, as long as they do not sell their bitcoins prematurely.
6206  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 27, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
* the top 29,000 people would have 5,000mBTC or more, a huge fortune comparable to 100 million of today's dollars.
* the top 1 million people would have 500mBTC or more, corresponding to 10 million or more dollars
* 29 million people have at least 50mBTC, which puts them among the most affluent 0.6%, previously called 'millionaires'
* the upper middle class of 350 million people worldwide, owns 5mBTC or more
* lower middle class consists of 1 billion people is characterized by ownership of 0.5mBTC or more
* the lower class of (3+ billion) owns less than 0.5mBTC including people who don't have any or have negative worth.

To corner your share of the world's bitcoins, I suggest a simple top-down approach: Decide, Buy, Wait, Profit -model.
(A more complicated bottom-up approach is the topic of this thread.)

- Decide, which of the levels above suits your preferred lifestyle.
- Buy 10 times the number of bitcoins necessary (to allow for divestment, spend, gifts, loss, theft, tax etc.)
- Wait.
- Profit.

For example if you are currently "upper middle class", and want to gain a level, you need minimum 50mBTC. By buying half a bitcoin for about $500, you are neither in any danger of losing out on Bitcoin's appreciation, nor suffer disproportionately if Bitcoin fails.
6207  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 27, 2013, 09:20:16 AM
Perhaps he just needs to sell. Stamps liquidity is so friggin anemic that I just quit today's selling plan without selling any coins. I am not the only one willing to sell at these prices.

The selling plan you have outlined numerous times on this forum, doesn't include selling at Bitstamp at $925.

That was the buying plan, lol.

When have I denied that I work for several different companies, managing their (and even their customers') accounts?

Congrats for getting out of ignore Smiley
6208  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 27, 2013, 08:40:38 AM
Perhaps he just needs to sell. Stamps liquidity is so friggin anemic that I just quit today's selling plan without selling any coins. I am not the only one willing to sell at these prices.
6209  Economy / Economics / Re: Ideas for more efficient distribution of money? on: November 27, 2013, 08:34:40 AM
BTC are less concentrated than fiat !

Do you research instead of being jealous and crying !

Mathematically myopic mistake.

BTC are not distributed to even 1 / 1000 of all those who have fiat.

Why do butt hurt Bitards always assume I am crying?


Hmm... how many % are actually short fiat (mortgages, credit cards)?

It may be that 100% of fiat is concentrated to 0.1% of people, if we really dig deeper into numbers.
6210  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 27, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Today was a really intense day. I turned bear.

Ouch. Did you buy back?

This should be known to you already. Possibilities are:

1. I get to buy back the same amount cheaper.
2. I get to cash out the money enough for retirement+ride the freebies.

It has not even visited the #1 territory so I guess it is #2 then.  Grin


6211  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 27, 2013, 07:35:15 AM
Since one can't predict which copy wins out in the end large holders must continuously diversify into new coins.  This is OT and obviously implies greater bitcoin growth for this to even become an issue.

Shows absolutely no understanding of large holders.

I, for one, am boycotting altcoins, despite the gains that might be achievable. Central banks and their cronies are boycotting all cryptos.

People in the position of power do not need to diversify for reasons of security or gain, they only diversify to retain their power.

...which may be Bitcoin's(crypto's) greatest strength that possibly the CB:s were in boycott mode for too long.
6212  Economy / Economics / Re: (SSS) - A Sane and Simple bitcoin Savings plan on: November 27, 2013, 07:16:37 AM
If someone has 35% of the bitcoins he had that time, he is very smart (and very rich).

Or small and not rich

What is the smallest conceivable investment, $50?

That means, 35% of it is now $35,000.
6213  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 26, 2013, 08:43:24 PM
I have to say that my "exit" strategy is very similar to your "rake" concept. It worked well so far, I still have the vast majority of my coins but I will live quite better in 2014.

I don't like "exit" because we are entering Bitcoin and exiting the fiat world. We are just raking the pot to live more comfortably.  Cheesy
6214  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 26, 2013, 08:22:48 PM
Pretty mind blowing stuff. That real-life stories are a good example of how you play this game: you invest what you can afford to lose, and you go for the long run, holding to the majority of your coins. The potential and growth are so huge that by gradually cashing out you can live OK while holding to the vast majority of your coins.

I have developed the concept of "rake", which in this context means the (average) percent of your holdings that you sell, every time the price doubles. This is applicable in the situation where you are unloading the coins. If you are still accumulating, it naturally does not hold.

According to the virgin-money-flow-model, the average rake is 17%, which means that each 1000x increase (consisting of 10 succeeding doublings) dilutes your holdings by 84%, formula: 1-(1-17%)^10.

If you want to play tigher, choose 10% rake for 65% dilution.
If you are OK to play looser, 30% rake dilutes 97% of your coins away, but the remaining 3% are still worth 30x more than all the coins in the beginning.

More about it.
6215  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 26, 2013, 07:59:54 PM
are you sure about those numbers?
cause the first 5 sum up just 4,345,000,000mBTC

They are the lower bounds. Eg. "0.5mBTC or more" means the same as "0.5mBTC - 4.99999mBTC".

In totality, this model assumes 15 million coins. Some of the top 29,000 have vast fortunes such as 50,000mBTC, the early block reward/VIP tag.
6216  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 26, 2013, 07:34:44 PM
We are so far from mass adoption that it is not even funny.
6217  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 26, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Let us assume that Bitcoin has completely taken over as a currency, and is now used worldwide. Because the emergence of Bitcoin has made commerce boom, the world GDP has grown such that bitcoins alone account for as much value as the physical and financial world did in 2012.

The world uses other methods for everyday payments. Bitcoins themselves are used for large transactions only and a measured in units of mBTC. The wealth is distributed in a similar way as in the article, but to quite different people.


In this order,
* the top 29,000 people would have 5,000mBTC or more, a huge fortune comparable to 100 million of today's dollars.
* the top 1 million people would have 500mBTC or more, corresponding to 10 million or more dollars
* 29 million people have at least 50mBTC, which puts them among the most affluent 0.6%, previously called 'millionaires'
* the upper middle class of 350 million people worldwide, owns 5mBTC or more
* lower middle class consists of 1 billion people is characterized by ownership of 0.5mBTC or more
* the lower class of (3+ billion) owns less than 0.5mBTC including people who don't have any or have negative worth.


Even if you find it hard to believe the dollar part, the number of bitcoins existing is still constant, and will likely be distributed quite exactly according to the table above, when the initial distribution period is completed and bitcoins are used everywhere.
6218  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: November 26, 2013, 06:20:35 PM
I will try to derive a calculation concerning the "eventual distribution" of bitcoins, which is the dynamic equilibrium. Soon...
6219  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 26, 2013, 06:18:16 PM
...but if the above was to come true, wouldnt you be worried about the power some of these people hold?

Everybody has power to his own coins, exactly as it should be.
6220  Economy / Economics / Re: Ideas for more efficient distribution of money? on: November 26, 2013, 06:15:12 PM
It is not easy to see yourself, but your ignore button has reached its maximum color Sad
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