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641  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 12:12:18 PM
Could you not have some hybrid approach where the dianna data is stored in a separate blockchain, but the blocks are "approved" in the bitcoin blockchain? So you wouldnt store anything in the bitcoin chain, other than a hash of the last known "approved" dianna block.
disclaimer: I have no idea what Im talking about
This will be a big sync problem. Bitcoin chain is quasi-stable and some its part can be rewritten at any time. What to do in this case...
642  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 11:53:30 AM

Quote
0. Coins are destroyed Proof
1. NetworkFee descreasing for 50 to zero and will be zero in ~80000 block Proof and has no feedback with network activity like difficulty has.
2. Namecoin was designed for free domains and this is its future Proof
3. Developers have to do system intrusion from time to time to avoid collapse or spam hell Proof Proof

0.) so what?
1.) "
2.) "    Domains will never be free because of the price for name_new. Cheap domains were a design choice as Khal explained to you already (see links above).
3.) Your system will need some time to become as stable as namecoin is already today.

4.) Why not improve the current system? Pretty much seems possible.
5.) I repeat: everybody should pull on one string!
0. Its a crutch.

Verify domain transactions and verify financial transactions is a different work. Domain transactions can be quitely higher in volume than financial ones. The work for their verification is not paid. name_update is free. name_new fee has no feedback with network activity. System is unbalanced and going to put terabytes of free data on clients HDDs.

Well, if you plan to use this, go ahead.

To fix all problems above namecoin chain needs to be destroyed.
643  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
If Bitcoin developers will put block chain somehow in somewhere like DHT and leave only block headers on clients, the dianna can be futher integrated into bitoin block chain. There will be no need for separate block chain.

The primary problem for now is the every client stores all network data locally. This excludes dianna-like systems from bitcoin chain.

Maybe we need to go by bitcoin distributed storage way?
644  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 10:27:27 AM

I agree that this fixes namecoin weaknesses.
 - miners should get paid for the use of disk space induced by domain registration
 - how much they get should be fixed by market
 
However, I believe that the most sensible implementation would be to write domain registrations directly into the Bitcoin blockchain, not to define a new blockchain & currency. Once you realize that the value of coins should not be tied to domain names, the logical conclusion is that we do not need a new blockchain. The existing infrastructure provides enough security.

hum, did I say something Gavin does not want to hear?
Why to overwhelm bitcoin block chain with possible terabytes of domain data? What did Satoshi said about this...
645  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 09:50:38 AM
Oh, pleeeeease...

I already said why i dont like namecoin implementation, scroll up, down and go through links. So big holes in design - this can not grow in something significant.
646  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 09:20:01 AM
So we have two issues:
1. How to deal with Bitcoin overwhelming hash power
2. How to safely put a block inside distributed network

What if we try to kill both with one shot?

They summarize into one complex task. But the complex, difficult work - this is what network needs.

In addition to hashing work we will give miners a complex task to find a secure place for block inside our distributed network.

So they not only need to find a hash, but also they need to find a secure place in a huge network for solved block.
647  Local / Кодеры / Re: DIANNA: IANA Decentralized концепт дизайн on: February 18, 2012, 09:14:59 AM
Итак, есть две задачи.

* Как предотвратить внезапную миграцию большой мощности в сети
* Как организовать надежное распределенное хранилище

Что если убить двух зайцев одним выстрелом.

В сумме эти две задачи складываются в очень сложную задачу.

Но очень сложная задача это именно то, что нужно сети.

Давайте дадим решать ее клиентам в качестве работы (вместо хеширования или параллельно хешированию) - решать задачу надежного и оптимального распределения блока внутри сети.
648  Local / Кодеры / Re: DIANNA: IANA Decentralized концепт дизайн on: February 18, 2012, 09:01:52 AM
Проапдейтил 1й пост и вики текущими открытыми вопросами.
649  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 08:57:54 AM
udpated initial post and wiki with current open issues
650  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 18, 2012, 06:45:50 AM
So a rebranded NameCoin ... why don't you just make available a patched NameCoin source-code with your perfect free-market fees formula in it and see if you can get the NameCoin network to adopt it naturally?
This design will actually destroy namecoin chain if applied. It is fundamentally different from namecoin. It is not NameCoin child, but NameCoin brother.
Your wiki says :
Quote
while DIANNA registration fee is defined by free market agreements

... but where in the design document do you describe this "free market agreements mechanism"?

(As noted this is your main point of difference to NameCoin.)
Please read my paper before be opposed. Both your questions are described there.

Domain transaction fee will be set by community like in later Bitcoin, when coinbase dropped to zero. Community will decide what lower and higher limit of fees are acceptable by network to get it live:

Quote
Also, this design addresses a crucial issue of setting an acceptable
commission for a domain transaction. It is established on a free market.

Free domain transactions (without linking TxC) are also possible, but their
duration will be depend on how altruistic the miners in the system are.
Transactions with unreasonably high commission are also possible. These
will bring about higher DDiff-s. In this case it will be up to the miners
themselves whether or not to include these transactions into a block,
depending on their hardware facilities. Perhaps such transactions will take a
long while to be completed, waiting while the general complexity reaches an
acceptable level.

All in all, compared to Bitcoin, this system will have a correcting factor
related to the computing difficulty. It will be proportionally tied to additional
financial activity regarding the domain transactions, and average domain
transaction commission as well. This latter value, in its turn, will be established
under free market conditions.

Domain transaction commissions will be returned to
proportionate bonuses for the additional processing undertaken.
minersn as It will be the free choice of the miners which will regulate the
proportionate nature of the additional complexity correction. The higher the
bonus, the higher the complexity – and the higher the risk to get nothing.
651  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A better Namecoin on: February 18, 2012, 06:37:13 AM
Hello, please consider reading my proposal
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64279.0

http://dianna-project.org/dianna_en.pdf
652  Local / Кодеры / Re: DIANNA: IANA Decentralized концепт дизайн on: February 17, 2012, 06:18:50 PM
Вы же вот хотите "put full chain on DHT"  Smiley
А ведь эту инновацию тож придется капитально тестить.
Полные блоки можно смело складывать в дхт. У тебя есть хеш, ты всегда можешь проверить верный ли дхт вернула блок. Единственное что - это дизайн самой дхт. Тут придется почесать репу как это сделать все более отзывчивым.
653  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 06:13:36 PM
Man, I wish I knew how to program so I could help you somehow.

Anyway, if you need something translated into portuguese or help to promote it I may be able to help you. Beyond that, I dunno. Smiley
Thanks. If you are able to promote, please do it Smiley It would be better if more people will examine this design.
654  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
I think a big question you will have to answer is how will you get it started. Initially the coins will have very little value, relying on people donating their time and hardware for very little reward (likely negative profit), and the initial size of the network will mean 51% attacks or general mayhem will be very easy to carry out. It's the same issue that plagues all alt coins.
This you said divides on three parts:
1. The problem of initial demand. The initial demand for this system is in anonymous networks. Many-many people put their effords to invent similar system. Since it will work and lightweight client integrated in I2P, I sure ThePiratebay will be the first domain client. And this will be enough for big massmedia advertisement, like SilkRoad advertising bitcoin ))
2. The problem to motivate miners to mine. Its not a problem, I can mine by myself.
3. The main problem: 51% attacks. Here is a big field for thoughts. Either to use MM, which is totally alpha, or consider using more advanced cryptography which can deal with exponental network power growth.
I'm not entirely sure why the parallel separate currency is needed, either, since the part that is used to register already has its own value. Can't the registration fee itself be set by the domain buyers, and miners decide whether the fee is high enough? (Admittedly, I don't understand why Namecoin has fixed registration fees)
Separate currency needed to motivate miners to secure authoritative records and manage network.

I don't see a clear way to connect Bitcoin currency chain with alternate key/value chain. Financial and key/value transactions need to be in one solid chain.

Refering to my document:
Quote
Domain transactions are similar to financial ones and exist because of them, because a
record verification is an action which requires payment to motivate the participants to process it.
Consequently, domain transactions as well as financial transactions will have commissions
associated with them.
It became clear from the BitDNS discussion and looking into NameCoin that we will need to
draw a line between domain and financial transactions. Processing each type of transactions is a
different activity with its own complexity and compensation.
Nevertheless, introducing an additional block sequence for domain transactions may bring
about problems with synchronizing the two block sequences together. Let me remind you here that
the financial block sequence is quasi-stable and a part of it can be rewritten by the system at any
time.
655  Local / Кодеры / Re: DIANNA: IANA Decentralized концепт дизайн on: February 17, 2012, 05:29:01 PM
ММ мне откровенно не нравится. Это какое то непонятное и непротестированное нормально вмешательство в цепь. Его отмена это еще одно вмешательство в цепь. Когда система окрепнет вмешиваться в цепь будет очень и очень трудно.
656  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 05:26:15 PM
I just thought the solution to put full chain on DHT is very good Smiley

Found a doc about designing low-latency DHT.

pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/dhash:nsdi/paper.pdf

One more research Smiley Anyone help? I do not going to own this project, it is a property of sociaty. And sociaty help needed.
657  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 05:23:20 PM
How about doing merged mining with Litecoin CPU mining then your not competing against NMC or anyone.
I don't competing with anyone. I just want Internet to be free. Like speech.

I need to research merged mining for considerations about its use.
658  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 05:17:46 PM
In what form are those rewards distributed? Some type of coin that lets them register more names (like in Namecoin)? Some alternate version of Bitcoin that only has use as a currency? Something else?
The DIANNA will have its own financial block chain like Bitcoin. If we cut the domain operations, it will function like Bitcoin cryptocurrency with its own block chain and own "coins".
Those coins will be used also like alternate currecy.

Actually, DIANNA operates like NameCoin, but:
- registration fee is returned to miners (not destroyed) and caused additional proportional difficulty overhead to be not free
- registration fee defined by free market agreements, not by system. System can only suggest its value at first stages like bitcoin tx fee
- coins are not used as a domain name carrier

The registration fee of DIANNA's chain will be defined by communty like fees in "post-apocalyptic" Bitcoin (when coinbase dropeed to low values at lately stages).
Will this allow for merged mining? (hit post, walked away, didn't see out didn't post due to new replies) Namecoin mining doesn't pay a high reward, but since it is bootstrapped to Bitcoin mining, mining Namecoin is essentially free, and any reward above 0, no matter how small, makes it still be worth it.
I am still not considered with this. Merged mining needs additional research. See posts above.
Are there any considerations for database sizes? I've read somewhere (take with grain of salt) that the current ICANN DNS database is over 10 terrabytes in size. That's not something regular home users can support. Will this database/blockchain eventually have to be relegated to a few large centralized data storage places?
The first thing is yes, this will be heavy.
The second is the words of Satoshi:
The networks need to have separate fates.  BitDNS users might be completely liberal about adding any large data features since relatively few domain registrars are needed, while Bitcoin users might get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices.
So the DIANNA won't be so popular due to big data sizes. Users will have to have a good hardware to run the full client.
Although, the lightweight clients (i.e. DNS clients) are possible. They will just listen to network and do not write whole database, but only needed namespace.

However I already thought to put the full block chain to DHT database and on clients keep only reasonable its part, other part will represented only as headers. If client need a full block record which it hasn't, he queries DHT for it. Since client has a hash of this block, he can verify whether DHT returned valid block.
Are there any considerations for growth? The part that concerns me about Namecoin is that block rewards are constant for long periods of time, which means the maximum number of registrations per year is limited. Will your chain generate a decreasing reward like Bitcoin, level rewards (eg 50 per block) for ever,  growing exponentially (3% increase every year to keep up with population/technology/other growth), or something else?

I think the Bitcoin emission model is fine. 50 coins means 5E9 "coin quantums". One coin is int64 = 1E8. I think this is totally fine. Correct me if I mistake.
659  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept on: February 17, 2012, 04:44:34 PM
Does anybody know how much power aux chain gets from parent chain? At least average?

Maybe we just have to switch to another sort of cryptography functions, which use floating point for example? The MM smells bad for me, its like a parasite. Needs additional research.
660  Local / Кодеры / Re: DIANNA: IANA Decentralized концепт дизайн on: February 17, 2012, 04:30:26 PM
1) Я имел ввиду : сам создаешь ключ ( не случайный),
импортируешь его в бумажник,
регистрируешь НА НЕГО домен, вуаля.
при утрате бумажника - домен остается под твоим контролем,
до той поры пока ты можешь воссоздать ключ заново.  Smiley
Это можно сделать наоборот. Импорт и экспорт ключей из валлета. По моему в новых версиях биткоина это даже есть.
4)
>> "Биткоин же не грабят."
Когда он был маленьким -- могли бы, но не хотели.
Сейчас может и хотят но пока не могут.

Думаю MM имеет свои недостатки -- да.
Прежде всего, для не основной цепочки это --
привязка ее судьбы к судьбе BTC.

Да не то слово. Почитал я что это такое. ММ выгоден только одной стороне - aux chain. Т.е. это такой как бы паразит, сидящий на биткоине, и к тому же, перестроивший свою цепь под биткоин. Как я и предполагал, ММ нужен только для одного: "Ну пожалуйста, ну хоть кто нибудь, помайните мое говно.... ". Тут другая ситуация.
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